So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

[ragnarok]

Didn't say it was. I said it had the potential for some unfortunate implications, that's all. Besides, who said anything about being rescued? It's not that Kerrigan actualled needed "rescuing" anyways - that was Raynor's delusion.

Actually she did, she just didn't understand it. Hell by the end of HotS I'm still not sure she understood that.

[drakolobo]

See here.



If that's true, then Kerrigan is nothing but a big peon herself. Either way, I feel that this is a big misconception about the Zerg that's been fostered since Kerrigan took control of them in BW - it's part of the thing I said previously that irked me about this ongoing direction of the Zerg.

In their initially conceived state, the Zerg are not controlled by a leader (ie: Overmind) because there is no leader in a collective hive-mind per se. The Overmind character is merely a simplification to describe the gestalt of all the drives of each individual Zerg - the instinct to survive, self-preserve, grow, expand at all costs but writ large as a whole. The concept being that the Zerg and the hivemind are so intertwined such that one part can't be wholly removed without the other part being wholly removed also - "the Overmind/the hivemind" and "the Zerg" should be considered synonymous.

I agree that Kerrigan was a peon to the end of WoL, after the destruction of the supermind something remained thaat she obeys, a thing that I'll call the "will of the Swarm" kerrigan although independent but was under the control of the Zerg guidelines:destroy, assimilate , evolve and supremacy zerg, its independence, but only made unique way to do it, it was we really zerg,focused on the zerg supremacy. in Heart of the Swarm something is broken, Abathur and zagara is reminding us that are the Zerg in the old school. in the end she was molding the Zerg around herself, transform, that since she has easy to kill, superficially made no big difference.

[ragnarok]

I agree that Kerrigan was a peon to the end of WoL, after the destruction of the supermind something remained thaat she obeys, I'll call the "will of the Swarm" kerrigan although independent but was under the control of the Zerg guidelines:destroy, assimilate and evolv, its independence, but only made unique way to do it, it was we really zerg,focused on the zerg supremacy. in Heart of the Swarm something is broken, Abathur and zagara is reminding us that are the Zerg in the old school. in the end she was molding the Zerg around herself, transform, that since she has easy to kill, superficially made no big difference.

That wasn't really too much different in HotS you know. Granted at least there she had another focus in dealing with Mengsk, but the fact still stands that at least hundreds of thousands were killed for her quest for revenge. Not to mention her actions in willing to sacrifice ANYTHING to get it left the terrans defenseless against Amon's assault, as seen in the LotV preview and everything.

For the whole molding the Zerg around herself, the main problem was her mentality was still the whole "might makes right" concept. Only on the Moros and meeting up with Raynor did she try to turn away from that.

[Turalyon]

I agree that Kerrigan was a peon to the end of WoL, after the destruction of the supermind something remained thaat she obeys, I'll call the "will of the Swarm" kerrigan although independent but was under the control of the Zerg guidelines:destroy, assimilate and evolv, its independence, but only made unique way to do it, it was we really zerg,focused on the zerg supremacy. in Heart of the Swarm something is broken, Abathur and zagara is reminding us that are the Zerg in the old school. in the end she was molding the Zerg around herself, transform, that since she has easy to kill, superficially made no big difference.

I would hesitate to say Kerrigan's actions in BW would be defined as the "will of the Swarm". She sure does a lot of destroying (and giving cruel mercy which the Overmind would never have done) but not much in the way of evolving or assimilating. Mind you, she wasn't ensuring Zerg supremacy for the sake of Zerg, it was purely for her own selfish desire for supremacy. She still keeps doing that in HotS, which was hardly a surprise.

[ragnarok]

I would hesitate to say Kerrigan's actions in BW would be defined as the "will of the Swarm". She sure does a lot of destroying (and giving cruel mercy which the Overmind would never have done) but not much in the way of evolving or assimilating. Mind you, she wasn't ensuring Zerg supremacy for the sake of Zerg, it was purely for her own selfish desire for supremacy. She still keeps doing that in HotS, which was hardly a surprise.

It has nothing to do with the will of the swarm in BW. Back then she was merely trying to rule over the WHOLE of the swarm. She was certainly telling the truth about the threat from the 2nd Overmind in that respect.

HotS was a little different. It wasn't about supremacy. Remember the original goal was to use the swarm, kill Mengsk, and walk away. Even in the last HotS mission, she admitted to Abathur it was all about retribution

[Turalyon]

HotS was a little different. It wasn't about supremacy. Remember the original goal was to use the swarm, kill Mengsk, and walk away. Even in the last HotS mission, she admitted to Abathur it was all about retribution

Nah, it's much of a muchness since in HotS, it's supremacy over Mengsk specifically rather than supremacy in general for BW. It's still Kerrigan seeking supremacy.

[ragnarok]

Nah, it's much of a muchness since in HotS, it's supremacy over Mengsk specifically rather than supremacy in general for BW. It's still Kerrigan seeking supremacy.

Fine if that's what you want to call it. The Q now is will she revert back to the original ways. Personally I don't think so, as she did not actively attack Zeratul's base in Whispers of Oblivion. Of course, from the outside view, this is hardly a change.

[Nissa]

Nah, it's much of a muchness since in HotS, it's supremacy over Mengsk specifically rather than supremacy in general for BW. It's still Kerrigan seeking supremacy.

I don't think "supremacy" is the right word. All she wanted was to take down Mengsk in HotS, even ignoring much more important, relevant threats to do so. She wanted the power to destroy him, and was maybe mildly interested in the stuff Zer was saying. Given that she was at one point ready to run off with Raynor, any quest for power was purely to have control over her personal situation.

[ragnarok]

I don't think "supremacy" is the right word. All she wanted was to take down Mengsk in HotS, even ignoring much more important, relevant threats to do so. She wanted the power to destroy him, and was maybe mildly interested in the stuff Zer was saying. Given that she was at one point ready to run off with Raynor, any quest for power was purely to have control over her personal situation.

The problem is what will she do now that she finally got her revenge. After all, she admitted many times in HotS that she'd have to face retribution. Every arrogant person has had to pay the price for their actions in the SC universe. She's so far the only exception to this rule.

I expect that to finally change in LotV. As already seen in the trailer, her confrontation with Artanis proved to be quite hostile.

[drakolobo]

old Kerrigan is not "will swarm" she serves this unconsciously, kerrigan keeps some independence and individualistic attitudes: as his hatred for Arcturus, piety with Raynor, and his desire not to be governed.
With the Overmind was pretty docile. with the death of the Overmind Zerg she did not deny his nature (she belonged to the superior species and lived agree to it bringing her mind for overall survival), this absence, only stimulated individualistic aspect, that incited be on top. but during Broodwar follows the patterns of behavior Zerg, seeks to evolve the swarm for domination, following the unattainable perfection.

old Kerrigan was the only one who really seemed to know what happened with Amon, when she retired with the Zerg during Broodwar was not mainly personal reasons (for her Kerrigan Arcturus is insignificant compared to the zerg destination), was forming an army to stop Amon, the top threat, while having a fatalistic attitude, she tried to get the Xel'naga device that we now know is the key to defeating the fallen. Her position it was survival Zerg no other creature.

New Kerrigan is more disconnected from the zerg, making evolve them to get as possible to Arcturus. if Amon had not appeared as a threat, possibly the swarm had left adrift after completing his revenge, what we saw was what a woman with a weapon and with a great hatred.
Kerrigan has developed empathy for the Zerg, but from a human perspective, not as a Zerg. along its transformation, their mentality has not been affected in comparison with old Kerrigan. now her go to fight like an anti-heroine into space to kill a galactic god who threatens all, knowing she had ruine everything with the only person she cares