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Thread: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

  1. #11

    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    I imagine effective Brood Mothers being mobile Cerebrates, basically
    Re-named moble cerebrates. With entirely different personalities. And voice actors.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  2. #12

    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    While inter-Zerg conflict would be great, I'd prefer that the BMs be left out of it.
    As much as I dislike them too (well, more about how they were written and represented rather than mere the idea of them), they're an essential part of Kerrigan's "New Swarm" now. They would provide a clear difference between new and old Swarm since their greater independance could be explored as a wild-card. Do they want to bow to Kerrigan or go back to the unity that the old Swarm brings? Plus, it could be another source of inter-Zerg conflict within Kerrigan's new Swarm since her power over them isn't absolute. It'd be more interesting than the half-baked dynamic with Kerrigan and Zagara we had in HotS where the latter just acquiesces to the formers every whim just because.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    As far as Kerrigan dying goes, I agree that it doesn't matter now (if she'd died in LOTV that would've been great). I doubt the story will much improve either way, as things are. I just hope they don't end her with a "noble sacrifice."
    The more I think about this, the more I actually want Kerrigan to remain alive as part of the Zerg since that'd be harder (and interesting) to write for moving forward. Having her removed (not necessarily dying mind you) nobly or ignobly by the end of LotV is seemingly more and more of an easy "out" for the direction of her character. Like Mengsk in Sc2 being rail-roaded into his demise due to a lack of imagination of the writers (I never believed Mengsk's character was exhausted of opportunities as the reason to justify his removal), I can only hope that the outcome of Kerrigan isn't so "pat".

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    In the end, my personal preference would be that Kerrigan is either (1) allowed by the other races to remain queen of blades to keep any Overmind-like control over the Zerg in check, since she's a human and always lacked the motivation to destroy things the way the Overmind intended -- or (2) Kerrigan is ultimately removed from the swarm, her life in ruins. She then spends the rest of her life in a lab as a test subject to help people become de-infested, and fades out of the plot.
    The way things are, it's hard to fathom option (1) ever being possible since the Protoss would never suffer Kerrigan to live in any capacity given the amount of trauma she's caused them. Once Amon is removed, I'm pretty sure their priorities would be to try removing Kerrigan and the Zerg. Also, Kerrigan's continued presence and control of the Zerg is sort of at odds with her "supposed" burgeoning and rediscovered humanity. If she was intent on keeping the Overmind from coming back and doing the universe some real good having found her "goddness" again, she would just direct the entire Swarm into a star after Amon was defeated. Without her, the Zerg are nothing more than dangerous uncontrolled weapons and with her, she's a target because no-one will trust her with that power over the Zerg. If she's supposedly good, she wouldn't want to be in control of them anymore... unless they make her a bitch again or retcon that she was never good to begin with.

    Option (2) would be an interesting choice, especially if she's stuck as a lab rat for the Protoss... One could make that out as both a redemption and justice for Kerrigan's actions whilst still keeping her alive!
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  3. #13
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Re-named moble cerebrates. With entirely different personalities. And voice actors.
    Disagree on all accounts.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moble
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mobile?s=t



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  4. #14

    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    As much as I dislike them too (well, more about how they were written and represented rather than mere the idea of them), they're an essential part of Kerrigan's "New Swarm" now. They would provide a clear difference between new and old Swarm since their greater independance could be explored as a wild-card. Do they want to bow to Kerrigan or go back to the unity that the old Swarm brings? Plus, it could be another source of inter-Zerg conflict within Kerrigan's new Swarm since her power over them isn't absolute. It'd be more interesting than the half-baked dynamic with Kerrigan and Zagara we had in HotS where the latter just acquiesces to the formers every whim just because.
    I agree. They're just executionally bad, and with a bad name. As a concept, they are fine.

    The more I think about this, the more I actually want Kerrigan to remain alive as part of the Zerg since that'd be harder (and interesting) to write for moving forward. Having her removed (not necessarily dying mind you) nobly or ignobly by the end of LotV is seemingly more and more of an easy "out" for the direction of her character. Like Mengsk in Sc2 being rail-roaded into his demise due to a lack of imagination of the writers (I never believed Mengsk's character was exhausted of opportunities as the reason to justify his removal), I can only hope that the outcome of Kerrigan isn't so "pat".
    Well, the reason why I say she should have died in LotV is because that would have been more emotionally satisfying than Mengsk dying. I'll be honest, I was rooting for him in the end. As far a the future goes, she really should live.

    The way things are, it's hard to fathom option (1) ever being possible since the Protoss would never suffer Kerrigan to live in any capacity given the amount of trauma she's caused them.
    I disagree. I think the current story makes it waaay more likely this is a possibility. Not only does the prophecy nonsense confirm her general usefulness, Zeratul went out of his way to save her. That's bound to influence the opinion of the other Protoss. Not to mention that Mengsk is an expert at tolerating people he really shouldn't when he thinks it will serve his purposes. Clearly Kerri is important for doing something big, and that potentially could work out for her remaining in charge of the swarm, unlikely as it may seem.

    It will, however, be a more likely option depending on what Amon does. If he, or someone likewise more willing to kill indescriminately than Kerrigan, attempts to get the swarm back, the more logical humans and 'Toss can be willing to let Kerrigan keep her position, even for only the length of one game. Or Kerrigan keeps her power herself, and the others decide that stopping the hybrids is more important than chasing her, for the time being. At this point it can go either way.

    Option (2) would be an interesting choice, especially if she's stuck as a lab rat for the Protoss... One could make that out as both a redemption and justice for Kerrigan's actions whilst still keeping her alive!
    If Kerri gets more emo, this is the one I want.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    I know what mobile means. What I don't know is what the heck you're talking about. Unless you meant to say that you wanted the queens to be hooded.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  5. #15
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Oh the miscommunication!
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 10-02-2015 at 03:15 PM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  6. #16

    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I disagree. I think the current story makes it waaay more likely this is a possibility. Not only does the prophecy nonsense confirm her general usefulness, Zeratul went out of his way to save her.
    Yeah, but we're talking about at the end of LotV right? The prophecy stuff will have finished up by that point and Kerri's part would've been fulfilled. Besides, it seems Kerri's battle against Amon seems to be more self-serving than as a genuine means to mend fences with the Protoss. If Zeratul did manage to get the Protoss to unite with Kerrigan, it would only be against this common enemy. Once Amon is removed, the Protoss would have no reason to tolerate her continued existence and potential threat if she remains in control of the Zerg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Not to mention that Mengsk is an expert at tolerating people he really shouldn't when he thinks it will serve his purposes.
    What's Mengsk got to do with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    It will, however, be a more likely option depending on what Amon does. If he, or someone likewise more willing to kill indescriminately than Kerrigan, attempts to get the swarm back, the more logical humans and 'Toss can be willing to let Kerrigan keep her position, even for only the length of one game. Or Kerrigan keeps her power herself, and the others decide that stopping the hybrids is more important than chasing her, for the time being. At this point it can go either way.
    Kerrigan still kills indiscriminately (and gives mercy indiscriminately as well) - she does it as recently as in HotS!!

    The option also exists where after they've dealt with Amon, they could just "remove" (not necessarily killing) Kerrigan right after and then subsequently destroy the Zerg entirely as they fight amongst themselves. It's more practical than just trusting someone (again!) who has done nothing but abuse any trust that was given previously. Do you think the Protoss would want to risk letting Kerrigan do her own thing again after what she did to them during BW. She's totally unreliable and untrustworthy when it comes to things other than her own personal self-interest.

    It can't be too difficult to get rid of feral Zerg. The Protoss are getting ready to take back Aiur from feral Zerg and we know that it's possible for feral Zerg to be contained easily since we see the Terrans alone being capable of managing the remaining Zerg on Char when Kerri became deinfested at the end of WoL. It only went pear-shaped because Kerrigan came back to rally the Zerg. With the Protoss behind/assisting the Terrans, they could just wipe out all the feral Zerg, thereby ending any future potential threat the Zerg could ever possess altogether.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  7. #17

    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Yeah, but we're talking about at the end of LotV right? The prophecy stuff will have finished up by that point and Kerri's part would've been fulfilled. Besides, it seems Kerri's battle against Amon seems to be more self-serving than as a genuine means to mend fences with the Protoss. If Zeratul did manage to get the Protoss to unite with Kerrigan, it would only be against this common enemy. Once Amon is removed, the Protoss would have no reason to tolerate her continued existence and potential threat if she remains in control of the Zerg.
    It all depends on how it's written. While yes, it's more temporary than a permanent state of existence, but we are talking about one game. Even if her quest against Amon is self-serving, Amon's going to freakin' destroy everything. Kerrigan is far less of a threat than that, so she can be tolerated. Plus, the prophecy is so obfuscated at this point that it can mean absolutely anything, so there's no way of adding a time limit to it.

    What's Mengsk got to do with it?
    Everything. Kinda hard for Kerrigan to be considered the lesser of two evils if Mengsk doesn't agree.

    OH! Wait, I forgot, he's dead. *curses internally because I'm a lady* Well, okay, let's say by "Mengsk", I mean the primary human governments that know enough about her to want to destroy her.

    .....

    Blizz, if you're reading this, and I know you are, I don't think I can forgive you for killing Mengsk.


    Kerrigan still kills indiscriminately (and gives mercy indiscriminately as well) - she does it as recently as in HotS!!
    Kerrigan kills people because they're in her way. If someone's not in her way, hasn't done anything to her, and doesn't have anything she wants, she doesn't bother. Unlike the Overmind, which planned on dominating the universe.

    It's not that Kerri's a good person, it's just that she lacks the strong will of the Overmind for universal conquest. Because her motivations are personal, she wouldn't see the point.

    The option also exists where after they've dealt with Amon, they could just "remove" (not necessarily killing) Kerrigan right after and then subsequently destroy the Zerg entirely as they fight amongst themselves. It's more practical than just trusting someone (again!) who has done nothing but abuse any trust that was given previously. Do you think the Protoss would want to risk letting Kerrigan do her own thing again after what she did to them during BW. She's totally unreliable and untrustworthy when it comes to things other than her own personal self-interest.
    That's true, but it's all a matter of power. It depends on if they can destroy the zerg themselves, or if something/one else with more potent motivations than Kerrigan can steal them for his own. Basically, almost any option is open, depending on how Blizz wants to spin it.

    It can't be too difficult to get rid of feral Zerg. The Protoss are getting ready to take back Aiur from feral Zerg and we know that it's possible for feral Zerg to be contained easily since we see the Terrans alone being capable of managing the remaining Zerg on Char when Kerri became deinfested at the end of WoL. It only went pear-shaped because Kerrigan came back to rally the Zerg. With the Protoss behind/assisting the Terrans, they could just wipe out all the feral Zerg, thereby ending any future potential threat the Zerg could ever possess altogether.
    Uh, well, maybe. It's still a matter of power and competition. It's a bit hard for me to believe that Kerri is the only one who wants control of the Zerg, but hey, that won't necessarily stop Blizz from writing things that way.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  8. #18
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    I disagree. I think the current story makes it waaay more likely this is a possibility. Not only does the prophecy nonsense confirm her general usefulness, Zeratul went out of his way to save her.
    There's a precedent for this, you know Kind of like how all of StarCraft and Brood War was setting Kerrigan up to the one to kill then StarCraft 2 forces her to be the one to save and then to kill/save/something.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  9. #19

    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Plus, the prophecy is so obfuscated at this point that it can mean absolutely anything, so there's no way of adding a time limit to it.
    As I read this, a certain meme featuring Steve Carell's Michael Scott drifted into my mind...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Kerrigan kills people because they're in her way. If someone's not in her way, hasn't done anything to her, and doesn't have anything she wants, she doesn't bother. Unlike the Overmind, which planned on dominating the universe.
    Yeah, but only she knows whom or what is in her way based on her own twisted logic and current mood at any given time. To the rest of us, it seems like she's indiscriminate. And sure, this could also apply to the Overmind and it's pursuit of perfection, but because it had planned or decided on "assimilating the best whilst killing the rest" as it's sacred mission from the get-go, the audience knows that it's actions are not inherently indiscriminate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    It depends on if they can destroy the zerg themselves, or if something/one else with more potent motivations than Kerrigan can steal them for his own.
    The Protoss think they can retake Aiur whilst Kerrigan is still around, so getting rid of the Swarm would be even easier without Kerrigan being in the way and controlling them. The threat that the Zerg could still be used as weapons against them would expedite their decision to kill Kerrigan after taking care (or even during) of Amon because, well, you know, she's the only other person that can control those weapons.

    Besides, I'm sick of seeing the Zerg as merely being weapons and tools (ie: plot device) to be used. It irked me a little in BW that the Zerg were treated this way though I accepted this as a plausible and interesting change/consequence in the dynamics of the Zerg after what happened to them in Sc1 (Kerrigan being a badass certainly helped). However, I don't want this (needing a leader or being controlled or being used as plot device by some other force) to be a permanent defining feature of them since it devalues everything that was interesting about them and it sort of devalues the Protoss since the Zerg are supposed to be the opposing and equal half of the Protoss. The Zerg need their own sense of agency back - they won't get that being under control by someone/thing else, especially if that someone is still Kerrigan.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  10. #20

    Default Re: So what if Kerrigan doesn't survive LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    As I read this, a certain meme featuring Steve Carell's Michael Scott drifted into my mind...
    I'm not familiar with it.

    Yeah, but only she knows whom or what is in her way based on her own twisted logic and current mood at any given time. To the rest of us, it seems like she's indiscriminate. And sure, this could also apply to the Overmind and it's pursuit of perfection, but because it had planned or decided on "assimilating the best whilst killing the rest" as it's sacred mission from the get-go, the audience knows that it's actions are not inherently indiscriminate.
    That's not the point. And yes, outsiders do know that Kerrigan is less willful and more personal than the Overmind. Kerrigan has treated Mengsk, Raynor, DuGalle, Zeratul like little pawns, and she informed Mengsk and Zeratul directly that her motives were less about promoting the Zerg and more about her own revenge -- Mengsk lives because she wants him to witness her greatness, and Zer lives because Kerrigan wants him to suffer for having killed Raszagal. Her behavior is always one of consistent self-service, whereas the Overmind thought of nothing outside the glory of the swarm -- remember too that Zeratul touched his mind.

    Basically put, Kerrigan, even in Zerg form, acts like a human. Natural Zerg do not. It's as plain as the eyes on her face to anyone who's met her.

    The Protoss think they can retake Aiur whilst Kerrigan is still around, so getting rid of the Swarm would be even easier without Kerrigan being in the way and controlling them. The threat that the Zerg could still be used as weapons against them would expedite their decision to kill Kerrigan after taking care (or even during) of Amon because, well, you know, she's the only other person that can control those weapons.

    Besides, I'm sick of seeing the Zerg as merely being weapons and tools (ie: plot device) to be used. It irked me a little in BW that the Zerg were treated this way though I accepted this as a plausible and interesting change/consequence in the dynamics of the Zerg after what happened to them in Sc1 (Kerrigan being a badass certainly helped). However, I don't want this (needing a leader or being controlled or being used as plot device by some other force) to be a permanent defining feature of them since it devalues everything that was interesting about them and it sort of devalues the Protoss since the Zerg are supposed to be the opposing and equal half of the Protoss. The Zerg need their own sense of agency back - they won't get that being under control by someone/thing else, especially if that someone is still Kerrigan.
    I'm not saying you're wrong, because you aren't. It's just that everything is open at this point, and Blizz can logically justify many kinds of situations. Besides, the Zerg have always been a race of peons. They're going to be controlled by somebody, natural Zerg or otherwise.

    Yeah, I know, Econ. It's just that SC2 is way less subtle about it.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

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