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Thread: Are Protoss Clones?

  1. #1

    Default Are Protoss Clones?

    Seriously.

    I think it's more than a matter of time and assets; Blizzard went out of their way to differentiate even minor, unnamed Terran characters in Wings of Liberty. The same cannot be said for the Protoss.



    Thematic Hints in HotS

    This idea was first seeded in my mind in an indirect, nebulous way by Heart of the Swarm. HotS focuses on genetic diversity and speciation. Even individual Zerg from the same breed -- any two hydralisks, say -- possess numerous genetic differences, the result of a molecular arms race between prolific A-type cells, and the phagocytotic B-type cells. Presumably, A-type cells evolve ways in which to resist or elude predation by B-type cells, and B-types adapt themselves accordingly, in an ongoing Red Queen evolution.


    Things are further complicated to Zerg's highly receptive cellular structure, assimilating foreign genetic material over successive generations by means of horizontal gene transfer. We may also assume the chimeric A-Type-vs-B-Type evolution is further complicated by this foreign genetic material.


    Thematically, Legacy of the Void -- and the Protoss -- should be the exact opposite. The Zerg are biologically diverse in the extreme, though they are unified in mind. The Protoss, then, should be homogeneous in form, but diverse in spirit and mind.

    Reinforcement in LotV

    Legacy of the Void took this half-thought and firmly grounded it. In the LotV trailer, we see Artanis addressing legions of Zealots before the invasion of Aiur. The exact same Zealot model is used over and over and over; aside from customized armor, there is no shred of individuality to be seen.


    Even the latest cinematic trailer does little to upend this idea. Of the three Zealots, One-Eye (Teredar?) and Standard Zealot have the exact same facial features. When the cavalry arrives, there is even more of the same. Even the High Templar are identical, though they differ from the Zealots. We can comment little on Helmet Zealot in this respect, but he does play a role...


    ... On what little diversity we see.

    What little diversity we see may have a limited scope of origins and causes. First is age: young protoss have little facial definition; their scales and scutes develop as they age. (Presumably, females of the species, like in humans, are Paedomorphic -- they retain features of youth as they age -- so their development of scales is limited.) Next is tribal affiliation. Assuming the Helmet Zealot from the cinematic trailer hails from the same tribe as the others, then all three Zealots were from the Akilae tribe. This, by corollary, would mean every Zealot we've seen to date is likewise from the Akilae Tribe. Thirdly, we have the racial disparities between Khalai and Nerazim. Fourth, it's possible that lineage plays a strong role in one's station in life. Say your parents were Zealots? Then -- perhaps by some quirk of genetic-memory and/or Khala-based feedback, or cultural pressure -- you too will pursue that lifestyle.


    Cultivars - The Plant Connection

    Now clearly we have male and female Protoss, indicating sexual reproduction and genetic recombination. If, however, you're part of a species deemed physically perfect, then the only direction evolution can take you is "down"; any divergence would necessarily be harmful to you and your species. Clearly, perfection is impossible, as admitted by Abathur -- it is an elusive target, but the hunt is its own reward. So we most likely have a component outside genetic transcription at work, something metaphysical or psionic. Indeed, neither Khalai or Nerazim can be assimilated because of the Khala and Void, respectively. Somehow, some genetic/memetic information is being retained within an energy field, perhaps a morphic field. But we have another thing of interest: Protoss' plant-like origins. Cultivars are any variety of plant collected and cultivated for certain qualities. Plant breeders will select for these qualities again and again, sometimes going so far as cloning the plants -- often by means of cuttings, grafts or budding.


    My Conclusion

    If the Xel'Naga found physical perfection in the Protoss, they would want it to be retained indefinitely. They would put in place a mechanism that makes any deviation or tampering near-impossible. This would necessarily be something metaphysical in nature -- in this case, a psionic field, with the Khala (artificial) or Void (natural) serving as the medium. Then what, then, could the use of males and females be? Certainly more than an atavistic holdover. While their genetics are irrelevent, as their offspring will be an effective clone, the individuality and spirit must be nurtured. Thus, the male and female impart their psychic essence -- their memories, personalities, qualia, etc -- into the next generation, distilling their own personal histories into a new individual...

    Effective immortality.





    In this light, the means of reproduction are almost irrelevant. The result itself would be the impressive thing.
    Last edited by Visions of Khas; 09-14-2015 at 06:13 PM.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    The cinematics' Protoss all look the same because they're expendable combatants and there's no need to differentiate the faces of characters in a mob who are on screen for a few seconds. Its just simple efficiency to "clone" the CGI models for the fast-paced action trailer. All named, plot-relevant Protoss we've met look different.

    You also need to consider our limited human perspective. How many times have you heard someone say things like "all Asians look alike?" Different cultures and species focus on different features to distinguish each other. Can you always tell one monkey from another at the zoo just by a quick glance? Of course not. Assuming all Protoss are clones simply because you cannot tell apart the minute physical differences between them in the span of a few seconds is true ignorance.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    ^ I agree with the second line, there's definitely the possibility that Protoss individuals exhibit differences that are obvious to them and not to humans. But, I don't agree with the copy/paste cinematic line.

    In every cinematic even going back to the original SC, Blizzard has always featured unique human marine faces, even for characters with no lines. Remember these guys, or the 6 different guys on the dropship in Ghost's cinematic, plus the two non-visored marines on the ground? I don't think faces are something that Blizzard skimps on.

    Another thing is that since those Protoss faces don't even have noses or mouths or lips, it's not like there's much rigging and animation that goes into making a slightly different head. It would be really trivially easy to just bulk out some proportions and add on a slightly different scale pattern and change the eye color slightly.

    And Blizzard also likes making unique decals and things for its marines' armor that appear up close in cinematics. Obviously doesn't make sense for the zealots while they're emphasizing how linked everyone is, but (aside from the gold faceplate guy) I'll try to see if I can catch some examples of the armor not being exactly copy/pasted.


    Will think more about the cloning thing, or if it's just supposed to be extreme homogeneity within tribes.

    Karax's gross beard thing weirds me out.

  4. #4
    The_Blade's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    Conceptually, Terrans have more reasons to be identified as individuals (militia groups, personality, tatoos, etc); but that is not the only reason they are made different. Human faces are a great way to pay homage to employees. There is also a political/social agenda over the design of human characters.

    I would say the Protoss' armor copy might be due to it being a "perfect" weapon. You just don't add flaps of fancy metal designs to a F-16. We've seen Dark Templars customize their armor and weapons. However, Khalai Protoss might need less physical differentiation because of their networked feelings and thoughts. There are still exceptions. Mr. One Eye decided to keep his ripped head piece as a token of losing an eye.

    In the cut scene there are at least 3 gold faces, 2 different headsets, but no clear facial differences between the Zealots.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    Have to second (or third?) the notion that we can't assume they're clones just because they look the same (subjectively, mind you). Even if we can, I'd readily believe the notion that all members of a certain Zerg strain were clones more than contemplating the idea that all Protoss are clones.

    That the Protoss would reproduce sexually just to make exact physical clones is rather odd, since it'd be far more efficient to reproduce asexually to just create a clone. Now, I'm no biologist (I'm an ignoramus in this regard - so sorry if the following sounds like conjecture), but I've always thought that the product of sexual reproduction is not supposed to be a clone of either parent (if it were, which one would it be? Why would the other parent invest themselves at all if the clone could turn out to be of their partner rather than them? Then again, this could explain their low numbers). Not only that, sexual reproduction would also invite the possibility of mutation (not necessarily in a negative way) which would go against their supposed static and "perfect" physical forms. Besides, clones are usually weaker than their originators since they'd be using "older" cells. Unless the Protoss are somehow immune to the equivalent of telomere shortening, having the Protoss all be clones wouldn't have made them viable as a species for this long since the latest generations would be dying of old age (which we know the Protoss do exhibit) once they're born.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  6. #6

    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    Wow, Khas. That's a nice, long explanation to cover up the (probable) truth: Blizzard is lazy.

    Lol. In any case, hearken back to SC/BW days. The diversity there was excellent, and no two Protoss looked alike. They put in the effort to create individuals in both main characters and units. I miss that. However, given the state of Blizzard these days, I'm all too willing to believe that Khas is onto something -- that Blizzard somehow has a plot reason for all 'Toss looking alike.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    Large complex organisms reproduce sexually to fight off parasites and disease; even plants [though seemingly look the same most of the time to us] have diverse dna relative to the grand gene pool of life. So protoss can easily be diverse though now really have different facial features or body type builds.

  8. #8
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    So the modeling team didn't feel like doing a unique face for each warrior.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    Sooo any comments on any of my points other than identical facial features?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade
    I would say the Protoss' armor copy might be due to it being a "perfect" weapon. You just don't add flaps of fancy metal designs to a F-16.
    That's not a matter of contention. I'm perfectly accepting of the armor worn by the Protoss. But it's interesting how even the armor is customized -- a couple 'Toss are even wearing bling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon
    Have to second (or third?) the notion that we can't assume they're clones just because they look the same (subjectively, mind you). Even if we can, I'd readily believe the notion that all members of a certain Zerg strain were clones more than contemplating the idea that all Protoss are clones.
    I can see your reasoning. But we have explicit knowledge of Zerg biology, which promotes heavy mutations within the breeds.

    I've always thought that the product of sexual reproduction is not supposed to be a clone of either parent
    No, you're totally correct. As mentioned by Jconant, sexual reproduction offers many advantages, including the aforementioned Red Queen arms race against predation by parasites and disease.

    My point against traditional sexual reproduction among Protoss is, again, because of their supposed "Perfection of Form." Sexual reproduction is one avenue by which mutation and evolution manifest. When you're genetically "at the top", the only direction left is "down." Hence, my reasoning. It may be that these cellular mutations and deviations are "corrected" by the "morphic fields" of the Khala or Void, as I assume it plays a huge role in Protoss existence.






    Robear:


    Last edited by Visions of Khas; 09-16-2015 at 06:56 PM.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  10. #10
    The_Blade's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Are Protoss Clones?

    I have to agree that the Xel'naga had to use cloning or some other gene manipulation method to "perfect" both Protoss and Zerg in their own way.

    IMO "Purity of Form" is not a perfect physical being, but one that has evolved as far as to tap back into the cosmic energies. As well, I don't think the Xel'naga reached their desired goal (nor did they did with the Zerg). Therefore the Protoss are not pure in form on their natural state. Khas is the only one who willingly reached this goal, while other Protoss met a similar fate only after they attempted to use absurd amounts of power. If the spirit of Tassadar is really trapped within the psionic singularity on Aiur, then Adun and other Protoss Archons might also linger within the psionic fields they created. This in a way is Purity of Form. No body to return to, but existing alone with the capacity to linger and modify space.

    So no, I don't believe they are biologically perfect. Perfection in evolution is just like Abathur said, "a changing goal". So, I doubt they retain the same biological standard to perfect their race. Their similarities may be more likely due to the few generations that have passed since the Xel'naga's intervention. Be it a consequence of cloning. AND, I do believe that they may suffer physical changes related to their Khala or Void affinities and life experiences. For instance, Zealots might look similar when training together due to their Psionic link.

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