Starcraft II Cheesy? The Original Isn't Exactly Shakespeare.

[The_Blade]

I no longer blame the success/failure of these stories on the games themselves. I believe the most relevant factor is context.

StarCraft and BW were released during the golden age of RTS games. PC gamers at the time were exclusively geeks, outcasts of society, or children growing up with a computer. The cost of making a game was at its lowest for PC platforms, while consoles were still recovering from the crash of the late 80s. The rule of cool was dominant and devs were aware of this. Ideas and tones could be pitched into games to give them flavor rather than coherence. Games were created with incomplete content, because technology was limited. (All hail StarCraft's green text cinematics). The experience was therefore more like reading a book than watching a movie.

Then we had 10-12 years to mature the StarCraft universe as a community effort. IMO, Blizzards lack of intervention made communities so rich back during their classic age. E-sports and modding surfaced out of the need to create content that was just not there.

Then SC2 came into existence on top of the idea we created for StarCraft, which was a beautiful figment of our imagination but nothing more. This idea was a careful selection of the best content designed purely out of passion. Ideas were developed completely and only the best were remembered, as well. Project Revolution, Legacy of the Confederation, and many other projects were squashed by the marketed giant SC2. After seeing how their content and effort were scrapped, a lot of people left. Others grew out of mapping or content creation. The new experience was just a one way relationship for many modern PC gamers. The story is not flexible, because there are no holes left by the rest of the departments or technology.

But the thing that hurts the most is the 7 years of marketing and support that SC2 will have from Blizzard, until LotV's hype ends. Years that will create a really large shadow from were mods can't show themselves. Without support, moders will work for indie industries rather than spend the same time on a universe with no rewards or profit. A few heroes remain, like Gradius. There's still a general interest in StarCraft; but common sense says StarCraft Universe won't come out till we have a Blizzard marketplace... Only after this two conditions meet will the universe grow by community effort again, or we will be the last RTS giant.

[Nissa]

My mistake, I thought you wanted to discuss the story of the series like a reasonable, rational human being. If you wanted to just be a patronizing self-righteous dickhead, you should have said so and I wouldn't have wasted time replying to you in the first place.

...I was attempting to be humorous, because I'm an old fogey at heart. I'm sorry if it looked patronizing, but that wasn't my intent. All I meant was that younger people tend to think graphics are more important. It's just sort of the nature of the beast these days.

[ragnarok]

...I was attempting to be humorous, because I'm an old fogey at heart. I'm sorry if it looked patronizing, but that wasn't my intent. All I meant was that younger people tend to think graphics are more important. It's just sort of the nature of the beast these days.

That's actually what Blizzard is playing at, thinking the new community would be extremely ignorant. Even today I still didn't hate HotS's story so much, but there were serious plot hole problems, some of which COULD have been explained if Blizzard had just been less lazy.

[sandwich_bird]

I back Grad's post. Just wanted to add that I never actually read the manual and in fact, the first time I ever finished the campaign was on the N64 and there are no cinematics on the N64(not that this changes anything much). Even then, I thought it was easily understandable what the Protoss were about without having the game spell it out for you.

[ragnarok]

I back Grad's post. Just wanted to add that I never actually read the manual and in fact, the first time I ever finished the campaign was on the N64 and there are no cinematics on the N64(not that this changes anything much). Even then, I thought it was easily understandable what the Protoss were about without having the game spell it out for you.

Wait the N64 didn't have cinematics? I didn't know that....

[Drake Clawfang]

All I meant was that younger people tend to think graphics are more important. It's just sort of the nature of the beast these days.

And at no point did I say so. SC2's advantage in storytelling is the presentation. Original SC was "Watch a mission briefing, go play the mission, maybe some people talk during the mission." Really, we didn't get any in-mission cutscenes, in what you could call a cutscene, until Brood War. Stuff like the UED establishing their base camp on Aiur, or Artanis and Zeratul parleying with Aldaris, the original campaign didn't have anything like that - the most advanced it got was Aldaris and then Zeratul and their forces warping in at the end of The Trial of Tassadar. That was just the limitations of the game engine and the editor they had to work with, and even fan made map editors like SCM Draft can only push it so much. That's why hypertriggers are a thing, to improve trigger response time beyond the norm.

SC2, there's tons of cutscenes, between missions and in them, you can talk to characters outside of missions, you often get mementos of missions in your base, the missions you do impact how your army is formed, and so forth. The story can be told in greater detail than the original game. That's why I would love a full remake of the original SC and Brood War for SC2, providing they stay faithful to it. We can incorporate so much of this bigger story they've created into the games in ways the original game didn't have the capacity to do. What if we actually saw Raynor and Kerrigan interacting regularly to build up their romance, or could talk to Fenix and Aldaris and get more history on their relationships with Artanis and Tassadar and what they think of him.

Mission 3-2 "Briefing"

Artanis: Do you think we can trust Tassadar?
Fenix: Tassadar has saved my life many times in past battles, and I his. I see no reason now to question his integrity.
Artanis: Yet, he has allied with the dark templar. That is cause for concern.
Fenix: Perhaps. I place my faith in my own observations, not in ancient legends. When these dark templar strike at us, then I shall be concerned.

It isn't much, but imagine conversations like that across the whole campaign. I'd like that.

However, strictly speaking, yes, processing power, of which graphics are a part, can help tell the story better. The Overmind in SC1 was just a special building the size of a command center. Overmind in SC2 takes up half the map with its corpse laying in a crater obscured by mist with Overlords milling about. It's an eerie image and you feel like you're disturbing some ancient ghost walking around its corpse, and it gives a sense of size and power that original 4x3 building never did. Another good example is the laser drill, the original game couldn't have a weapon like that blasting a giant laser beam across the map to your objective. Flash can be its own type of substance, when done correctly and in proper doses, and the more advanced game engine allows more flexibility in that.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"Mengsk also said the Confederates are breeding the zerg. I presumed he was lying about the use of the emitters to make them angrier so they'd go along with his plans a while longer."

Why does everyone harp on this? people expect this chracter to already know what the Zerg are and what they do based on the Audience's prior knowledge?

He made a plausible (false, but still plausible) sounding theory with the information he was given, this is actually brilliant, because unlike many other games, this character has a real reaction to something like this.

"Holy fuck what the hell is going on? wait.. they're in pens, maybe their BREEDING THEM!"

Instead of conveniently theorizing what they actually are:

"Holy fuck what the hell is going on? wait... they must be controlled by a giant brainlike thing and are here to nom nom our ghost operatives to fight those Protoss and nom them too!"

It's a small detail, but VERY important and far too often overlooked.

" the first time I ever finished the campaign was on the N64 and there are no cinematics on the N64(not that this changes anything much). Even then, I thought it was easily understandable what the Protoss were about without having the game spell it out for you.

SAME.

I grew up on that console, SC64 was my most treasured video game before my dad pawned it around 13 years ago

Wait the N64 didn't have cinematics? I didn't know that....

Yeah, they had still images because the Cartridge couldn't hold the graphical data aside from the Intro sequence.

Go watch a couple SC64 videos to see what I mean.

The game itself's graphics (for an already simple graphically) game was toned down, and even a few of the missions were made smaller because of Cart constraints (I have a playthrough of the Protoss Campaign and Mission 10 is several times smaller than on the PC)

[Drake Clawfang]

people expect this chracter to already know what the Zerg are and what they do based on the Audience's prior knowledge?

No, we don't. Just saying, Arcturus was wrong about that and yes, may have lied about it if he knew about the zerg as far back as he did.

Actually, that makes me question something else. How the heck did Zeratul find out about the cerebrates? And how did he know that the void energies of the dark templar could permanently kill them? Okay, let's presume Zasz was a test and he didn't know for sure; then where did he have the idea to try?

[Nissa]

And at no point did I say so. SC2's advantage in storytelling is the presentation.

Here we go, this is the crux of the thing. What I'm saying is that SC2's disadvantage is the presentation. Because the original had limited graphical capabilities, it was essentially forced to have better storytelling to make up for the visuals. Now that modern computers are graphical powerhouses, it is now possible for something to look good in lieu of making any sense -- "Chris, hurry up and finish the story already so we can get to the storyboards and the programming already!"

For example, take a good look at the scene in WoL where Zeratul and Kerrigan are talking and fighting. Nothing they're saying is emotionally interesting or makes any sense. They're just saying extremely melodramatic nothing lines about stuff the player knows nothing about at that point while Blizzard shows off their programmers' work.

Sandwich, you're amazing. I tried to play the 64 version once, and I just couldn't get over the awkward controller.

[Drake Clawfang]

Here we go, this is the crux of the thing. What I'm saying is that SC2's disadvantage is the presentation.

Gonna stop ya right there, because you're flat wrong. Enhanced presentation does not disclude good story, otherwise all modern games would have terrible stories. The writers slacking on story and compensating with pretty graphics is a problem to be blamed on the writers, not the graphics.

Either way though, I really doubt the writers are half-assing things thinking "meh, the graphics will look cool." This is another thing that bugs me. Blizzard is spending more than a decade, not to mention millions of manhours and dollars, creating this game that for better or worse will have a huge impact on the company and their individual careers. Even though some may not like the result, I promise you, "they aren't trying" doesn't factor into this.

Nothing they're saying is emotionally interesting or makes any sense.

I know the feeling.

Kerrigan: Once again, I grow tired of slaughtering your servants. Have the mighty Templar lost their infallible courage?
Zeratul: Well spoken, Concubine of the Zerg. But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light. You would do well to abandon this attack.
Kerrigan: You seem overconfident of your abilities, dark one. I am no helpless Cerebrate to be assailed under cover of darkness. I am the Queen of Blades, and my stare alone would reduce you to ashes. You and your ilk cease to amuse me. Prepare yourself for oblivion's embrace.

BTW, it always made me raise an eyebrow a bit that Kerrigan just pulls that title for herself out of thin air and everyone goes with it to the point it's synonymous with her name. Did she spend time on this, is there some significance to the title other than it just sounds cool?

"I am no helpless Cerebrate to be assailed under cover of darkness. I am Princess Pettycoat, and... what? My father called me that as a child. I like that name."