Disrupter and its implications

[Shadow Archon]

That's my line, particularly since none of the things you quoted had anything to do with my points. And no, saying "pray" and "heretic" does not in any way explain the Khala.

If that's how you interpreted the book, there's really nothing that can be done.

The books explain the Khala just fine to me with enough details, so, that's an issue on your part.

We don't know every single little thing about it, but that's hardly something I can blame her about because she did enough.

In any case, I don't appreciate you patronizing me, particularly since you're getting on Tura's case for the same thing.

I'm not patronizing, I'm being sincere.

There's no point in arguing over the book in terms where it ultimately comes down to opinions.

I felt it explained the Khala and the Dark Templar enough.

You don't.

I disagree, and don't feel any need to convince you of my point of view anymore.

To me, the amount of information that was provided by the book was great.

EDIT:

And you edited your original away.

Huh. Weird timing.

[Nissa]

Could you go back and read my post again? I edited it because it sounded too passive aggressive.

[Shadow Archon]

Could you go back and read my post again? I edited it because it sounded too passive aggressive.

Oh, sure.

Ah, okay, it's much easier to talk now that it's just a description of opinions rather than trying to one up each other with corrections. That being said, I'm still going to be annoying. It's what I do.

You're not that annoying.

Okay, so Shadow, you're saying that the Khala went from a political/religious philosophy to a psychic link, yes?

Yes.

Well, it's both.

It was a religion/philospohy first, but it became so big, that it's definition expanded to include the psychic link itself. The link had existed since the end of the Aeon of Strife, it is just, it was never called the Khala until the Khala itself became a really big deal.

So, not only is it a philosophy about how to approach the Psychic Link, psionics, and the idea of promoting the Protoss Communal whole, it is the link. It is the Protoss Communal whole.

Uh, it kinda seemed like the opposite to me. That is, when Savassan touched the Khaydarin crystals, his mind was opened in a way that allowed the psychic link to happen, and then the philosophy of unity through this psychic link formed over time. Or so the book makes it look, absent of anything the manual says. I need to read the manual again, because the story seemed somewhat different there.

Well, that's how it happened in the manual. Khas discovered the link before the Khala's dictates were written.

The mystic, whose true name has been
forgotten in the annals of history, was
eventually named Khas or ‘he who brings
order’. Khas, having studied the archaic,
forbidden teachings of the Xel’Naga,
unearthed ancient, monolithic artifacts known
as the Khaydarin Crystals. The Crystals, left
behind by the Xel’Naga, were fundamental in
facilitating their proto-genetic experiments.
Khas was able to channel the primal energies
of the Crystals through himself, allowing him
to access the primordial, psychic bond of his
race. For the first time in thousands of years,
the primal chord of the Protoss was tapped.
Flooded by emotions emanating from every
member of his race, Khas became aware that
the Protoss had not lost their primal link, but
had simply forgotten how to attune themselves
to it. Horrified by the warring emotions that
had been tearing his race apart for countless
centuries, Khas began to search for a way to
heal the searing pains of his people. Khas,
gathering many young Protoss together, was
able to teach the new generation of warriors
how to access their latent psychic bond. These
young ones, suddenly free to distance
themselves from the horrendous strife around
them, were able to see clearly that the conflict
of their race was folly.

Going through the first book again, Savassan doesn't even use the word Khala. In fact, the only character to use the word is Zamara, and that definition fits completely with the manual.

His theory, known as the Khala, or
‘Path of Ascension’, called all Protoss to forsake
their own whims and strive to reunify their
once mighty, communal race. The greatest
hope of Khas was that the Khala would instill
a new sense of essence and vitality within the
Protoss race.
-------------------------
The Khala, primarily meant to define a rigid
system of behavior, also called for a shift from
Tribal society to a Caste system.

There was a slight hesitation, then she continued. We protoss follow a doctrine we call the Khala, which asks of us to unite all our thoughts and emotions, so that we are not many, but one. But even among our own people, there are those who wish to remain apart. We have called them the Dark Templar in many ages past, but recently we have learned they may not be quite so dark after all. For you, unused as you are to dancing with another’s inmost being, such might be the safest path. I remember this. ... You will as well.
--------------------
Today, he goes by the name of Khas. We revere him, and honor his memory. He united us under the Khala ... a system of order. The “Path of Ascension.” It is what pulled us out of the Aeon of Strife. Without it, without this knowledge of how deeply we are one, we would have destroyed ourselves.

It is the second book where they say the Khala and the Link are now synonymous.

Curiosity flickered in Jake, but was quickly hooded before Adun could pick up on it. Over two millennia ago, the great Khas, as he had become known—“He who brings order”—had rediscovered the profound link all protoss could have with one another. He had drafted a series of rules on how best to navigate this intimate space, and the collection of rules and the emotional and mental link itself had become known as the Khala.

In Firstborn, the recollections of the past stop immediately as Savassan had his tribe use the crystals to initiate the link between them and the other protoss.

They talk about getting members of the tribe to touch the crystals he had collected, to feel the link and each other through it, but it is before he wrote the dictates of the Khala itself, so it is not called that.

It is there in snippets though, the beginnings of the idea.

“We need ... a way to be in this place,” Savassan said to Temlaa. “A way to bring order. There must be guidelines for how to navigate this unity in which we find ourselves. We must strive, each of us, to be good, and pure, and sacred, so that what we bring to the whole makes it that much more profound and powerful.”

In the manual, the link did exist before the Khala, as the link originally did exist before the Aeon of Strife, but it is not until after the Khala became a philosophy and religion planet wide that the Protoss simply called their Link the Khala.

Or, at least, that's what I get from it.

[Nissa]

You're not that annoying.

Heh, you have no idea.

Yes.

Well, it's both.

It was a religion/philospohy first, but it became so big, that it's definition expanded to include the psychic link itself. The link had existed since the end of the Aeon of Strife, it is just, it was never called the Khala until the Khala itself became a really big deal.

So, not only is it a philosophy about how to approach the Psychic Link, psionics, and the idea of promoting the Protoss Communal whole, it is the link. It is the Protoss Communal whole.

I don't know if I agree with all your details. It feels like you're extrapolating too much from too little information.

Well, that's how it happened in the manual. Khas discovered the link before the Khala's dictates were written.

Okay, but that's clearly where the DT Saga and the manual differ. That bit you quote states that Khas found the writings, but the DT Saga never shows Savassan finding anything written. There's clearly a plot issue here.

Huh, also, note that in the quotes that the writings of the Xel'Naga were "forbidden," clearly indicating that other Protoss knew it existed because people have to know about something to forbid it. Another difference between the manual and the DT Saga.

Now that I think about it, there's another difference, and a definite retcon. It says in the manual that Khas' name was forgotten over time, and yet the book introduces preservers, who would have kept Savassan's name in their memory despite the time-difference. Thus there's no reason why Khas' original name would have been forgotten.

Going through the first book again, Savassan doesn't even use the word Khala. In fact, the only character to use the word is Zamara, and that definition fits completely with the manual.

It doesn't really matter what Savassan called it at the time of the flashbacks. Just because it didn't have the name "Khala" at the time doesn't mean future people can't use that word to denote specific things about the link/philosophy. Sort of like how no one from 1914-1918 called that war "World War I".

It is the second book where they say the Khala and the Link are now synonymous.

No offense, but I'm not sure I care. It's not personal. Those books bugged me for various reasons, and they bug me even more now that I know they were written by the author of "King's Man and Thief," a trashy female-schlock piece of work. I reviewed it for my blog to compare Starcraft authors' stuff to non-franchise work, and ugh, I think I've had enough female victimhood (think torture, murder) for the rest of my life. Yes, I'm a girl, but I still can't explain why the rest of my gender enjoys reading about victimhood.

That, and are you sure you quoted the right part of the book? We protoss follow a doctrine we call the Khala seems to indicate that the Khala includes doctrine and isn't simply a link.

Oh, and if you could quote segments with the bold function instead of the quote function, that'd be great. Makes it easier to reply.

In Firstborn, the recollections of the past stop immediately as Savassan had his tribe use the crystals to initiate the link between them and the other protoss.

They talk about getting members of the tribe to touch the crystals he had collected, to feel the link and each other through it, but it is before he wrote the dictates of the Khala itself, so it is not called that.

It is there in snippets though, the beginnings of the idea.

Again, it doesn't particularly matter what Savassan called it. Also, the quote from the manual you used states that Khas found the writings of the Xel'Naga, indicating that the philosophies associated from the communal link were Xel'Nagan in origin, not Khas'.

...Khas became aware that the Protoss had not lost their primal link, but had simply forgotten how to attune themselves to it.

The words "had not lost" up there indicated a pre-existing belief that the link the Protoss shared was lost. That is, Khas and possibly many others already knew that a link was once present. This is either a sign that Khas had found Xel'Nagan writing explaining the link, or that the Protoss have some sort of historical record (oral or otherwise) of having had a link in the past. In short....I forgot what point I was trying to make. Never mind.

In any case, this passage does not indicate that the word "Khala" was never used. It's entirely possible that the word itself is Xel'Nagan in origin. Granted, that's not what the manual states, but the manual says nothing against it, either. Either way, the word "Khala" is clearly used to describe what Khas discovered. If it was called something different in the past, that has no bearing on the nature of the belief itself.

In the manual, the link did exist before the Khala, as the link originally did exist before the Aeon of Strife, but it is not until after the Khala became a philosophy and religion planet wide that the Protoss simply called their Link the Khala.

Or, at least, that's what I get from it.

Eh, given that the manual states Khas found Xel'Nagan writings, it's clear that those writings contained whatever philosophies, religion, and psychic technique are associated with the Khala.

[Shadow Archon]

Okay, but that's clearly where the DT Saga and the manual differ. That bit you quote states that Khas found the writings, but the DT Saga never shows Savassan finding anything written. There's clearly a plot issue here.

But he did.

"I think they are from the Ihan-rii, or connected with them somehow. I believe that with these crystals we can decipher the communications written on the artifacts. They will teach us things we can only imagine ..." - Firstborn

Huh, also, note that in the quotes that the writings of the Xel'Naga were "forbidden," clearly indicating that other Protoss knew it existed because people have to know about something to forbid it. Another difference between the manual and the DT Saga.

But the DT Saga has that.

Once we have somehow deciphered what the Ihan-rii were saying on their artifacts—that, too, must be shared with other tribes. Proud as I am to have been born into the Shelak tribe, I am not so arrogant as to think that we are the only ones who think this way. We are fortunate in that we were born into a tribe that encourages such things. Can you imagine if you had been born into the Akilae or the Ara? Where you would be killed for simply wondering if perhaps the Ihan-rii cared for us even though they left? Or perhaps told by your elders that the Great Teachers were evil?”
-----------------------------
HATE AND DISGUST FUELED HIM.

Jake felt it surging through his body, pumping with his blood, filling him to overflowing. It was pure, it was sweet, and he reveled in it.
His tribe did not know where the Shelak hid the abominations, but that was all right. The Furinax would concentrate on eliminating the Shelak, and leave the offending relics of the Great Betrayers behind to succumb to weather and time. Let the jungles reclaim them. Let ...

Jake hunched his shoulders and shivered. His skin became mottled with his grief. Even now, even so long after the Great Betrayers departed, the wound was raw among the Furinax. Why? Why had they gone? Why did the Shelak persist in honoring them? The Furinax had tried to tell them. They had tried to tell the Shelak that the Great Betrayers were not worth honoring. And there were rumors that the Wanderers from Afar did not mean the protoss well, though the details had eroded with time the way stone did. Jake loved the Great Betrayers—he hated them—he raged and whimpered. Whatever was the truth, he knew one thing: The Shelak were foolish in their blind adulation.
Jake clenched his fists as his skin picked up the scent of two Shelak who had wandered too far from the safety of the village. He closed his thoughts off from them, and began to stalk." -Firstborn

Now that I think about it, there's another difference, and a definite retcon. It says in the manual that Khas' name was forgotten over time, and yet the book introduces preservers, who would have kept Savassan's name in their memory despite the time-difference. Thus there's no reason why Khas' original name would have been forgotten.

For whatever reason, the Preservers don't share that information. So, the name was forgotten.

"Jake knew that Khas had had another name, but it was lost to everyone but the preservers now, and besides, what Khas had done was
more important than who he had been before such a significant discovery.

“I don‟t know that that‟s true,” Jake said to Zamara. As before, when Jake had relived the memories of a protoss named Temlaa as if they were actually happening to him, Zamara was with him, guiding him through the process so he retained himself.

“Savassan was a pretty remarkable fellow before he even found the first khaydarin crystal. It‟s a shame his name has been forgotten.”

“The preservers know it. The preservers know all. Well, almost all. And that is what matters now. Khas he has become, and Khas he shall be, until the final protoss closes his eyes for the last time and all becomes lost to the stars.” - Shadow Hunters

It doesn't really matter what Savassan called it at the time of the flashbacks. Just because it didn't have the name "Khala" at the time doesn't mean future people can't use that word to denote specific things about the link/philosophy. Sort of like how no one from 1914-1918 called that war "World War I".

Sure, but at the time, the link was not called the Khala.

It's called that now, but that doesn't change the fact that in the past, the name itself did not refer to the link.

If we're talking about the definition of the word, it is important when it chronological had that definition give the PoV changes back and forth.

No offense, but I'm not sure I care. It's not personal. Those books bugged me for various reasons, and they bug me even more now that I know they were written by the author of "King's Man and Thief," a trashy female-schlock piece of work. I reviewed it for my blog to compare Starcraft authors' stuff to non-franchise work, and ugh, I think I've had enough female victimhood (think torture, murder) for the rest of my life. Yes, I'm a girl, but I still can't explain why the rest of my gender enjoys reading about victimhood.

Well, if you don't like the book and how it handles the Khala, that's your opinion.

I've never read a non-Starcraft or non-Warcraft Golden novel, so I don't really care what else she has written.

I really enjoyed her work on the DTS though, and her other works are irrelevant to my enjoyment of it.

That, and are you sure you quoted the right part of the book? We protoss follow a doctrine we call the Khala seems to indicate that the Khala includes doctrine and isn't simply a link.

That's the point.

In Firstborn, it doesn't say the Khala and the Link are synonymous outright.

The Khala only comes up three times by name in the first book. It's in the second where it has way more usage and has it expanded to include the link itself.

So, from a Watsonian view, at the time, the Khala and the Link are synonymous, but from a Doylist view, perhaps she or Blizzard only went with that angle after the first book.

Oh, and if you could quote segments with the bold function instead of the quote function, that'd be great. Makes it easier to reply.

Oh, sure.

Again, it doesn't particularly matter what Savassan called it.

Why?

We are talking about which part of the Khala came first aren't we?

Just because the link is now called the Khala, doesn't mean that in the past it was the Khala. Because at the time, the word did not include it.

Only in the present, looking back, do they call it the Khala.

Also, the quote from the manual you used states that Khas found the writings of the Xel'Naga, indicating that the philosophies associated from the communal link were Xel'Nagan in origin, not Khas'.

Eh, that's iffy though.

I mean, Khas came up with the name, the dictates, and every thing else.

There was no Khala before the Aeon of Strife equivalent. There was the link, but no philosophy or doctrine on how to use it. I'm pretty sure, the Xel'naga, who were teaching the Protoss would slide something like that in there.

"The arrival of the Xel’Naga
seemed to bring the scattered Tribes even
closer together as the overjoyed Protoss looked
to their wizened creators for new truths and
insights. The Xel’Naga marveled at how driven
the Protoss were to plumb the mysteries of the
universe around them. The Protoss harbored
an insatiable lust for knowledge that led them
to develop radical, progressive strains of
scientific and meta-neural study. As their
understanding and personal awareness grew,
the Protoss became exceedingly proud and
began to see more value in personal
achievements than communal advancement.
The more successful Tribes began to isolate
themselves from one another, each seeking to
define their own roles, not only within their
immediate society, but within the greater
universe as well. As the Tribes grew further
and further apart, the Xel’Naga reeled in
frustration. They speculated that perhaps they
had pushed the evolution of the Protoss too
far, marring the purity of their creation. Many
Xel’Naga believed that the Protoss had lost
their greatest strengths, as individual egos
arose to overpower the once primary
communal link."
-The Manual

Kind of would be silly if the Xel'naga didn't teach the Protoss the Khala if they knew about it already in the beginning, wanted the Protoss as a communal whole, and had the position to integrate that social engineering.

Even if Khas learned from the Xel'naga artifacts, the manual states he came up with the doctrine itself.

So, while he does learn from the artifacts, I still say the Khala came from him directly.

...Khas became aware that the Protoss had not lost their primal link, but had simply forgotten how to attune themselves to it.

The words "had not lost" up there indicated a pre-existing belief that the link the Protoss shared was lost. That is, Khas and possibly many others already knew that a link was once present. This is either a sign that Khas had found Xel'Nagan writing explaining the link, or that the Protoss have some sort of historical record (oral or otherwise) of having had a link in the past. In short....I forgot what point I was trying to make. Never mind.

Well, both Khas in the manual, and Savassan in the book use Xel'naga artifacts to learn, so it could come from that.

And they are part of the Shelak tribe, so if anyone would have records, it would be them.

In any case, this passage does not indicate that the word "Khala" was never used. It's entirely possible that the word itself is Xel'Nagan in origin.

Eh, I doubt it.

Khala is Khalai for "Path of Ascension."

It's definitely Protoss language and terminology.

Granted, that's not what the manual states, but the manual says nothing against it, either.

True, but I don't see much evidence directly supporting the idea either.

I prefer the idea of Khas drafting the Khala.

Either way, the word "Khala" is clearly used to describe what Khas discovered. If it was called something different in the past, that has no bearing on the nature of the belief itself.

Eh, well, when look at the belief as it is now.

If we are talking about what the belief is in the past, noting how it is different in the past is pretty important I would think.

Eh, given that the manual states Khas found Xel'Nagan writings, it's clear that those writings contained whatever philosophies, religion, and psychic technique are associated with the Khala.

I disagree.

It may have been the foundation, but I don't believe it was an IKEA Khala guide.

[Shadow Archon]

The breif background info on the disruptor is that somehow the consciousness of a protoss warrior can be saved and uploaded into a robot....a more advanced means than even the dragoon to preserve protoss. Recent science fiction has been reusing this idea: halo 4, ghost in shell (not recent really, but one of the first popular films to play with this concept), transcendence, chappi.
Is this a technology that may help protoss overcome their dependency of the khala?

To get this a bit more on-topic.

Could you give a link to the vid that shows the Disruptor lore?

Possibly the lore for the other units too?

[Jconant]

I really wish I could dig it up, but can't seem to find it anymore. It was from a stream of a player who had the beta client and was looking at unit info from a unit tester map; he was reading off the info. There's a player named Axiom who made a thread on blizzard's forum with screenshots but it doesn't have the lore or a thorough unit description, just stats and costs

- - - Updated - - -

I really wish I could dig it up, but can't seem to find it anymore. It was from a stream of a player who had the beta client and was looking at unit info from a unit tester map; he was reading off the info. There's a player named Axiom who made a thread on blizzard's forum with screenshots but it doesn't have the lore or a thorough unit description, just stats and costs

[Turalyon]

Hey Shadow, what do you think of the Protoss losing the Khala in LotV? If the Disruptor description holds any water, what do you think about the idea of the Protoss getting a semblance of it back through artificial means?

What was your original point?

Simply that the Khala was clearly defined from the beginning. It was in reply to Nissa's comment that the Khala was never defined in SC/BW.

I just felt like talking about the Khala having abilities beyond what Demo simply stated about it. He said it was just a telepathic link open all the time. I wanted to talk about it in a bit more detail going by several sources, such as Cold Symmetry, Queen of Blades, and the Dark Templar Saga.

That's fine. We both got hung up on this aspect I think and were refuting it from two different angles. I was a bit too pedantic about it not being the psychic link per se in response. You were trying to say it was more than just a telepathic link.

It's all Demo's fault. Lets go beat him up.

"Course, the books then had to go and change everything, I suppose?"

Which, I still think this is a false statement, considering the manual's Khala definition applies specifically to when Khas created it. It is not defined again after this point. The Book's definition where it defines it as a psyhic link is going by the time of Adun's definition of it where it specifically states the definition changed over time.

Never having read the books, I posed it as a question, not a statement because I didn't really know. I was probably being a bit melodramatic where it says "everything" but a change of some kind did happen later in the books. Based on what I bolded, I think that's something we both agree on at the least.

This is a retcon of the addition kind but not of the contradicting kind.

The manual describes it as a philosophy and a religion.

The books say the same thing and expand on it later chronologically by saying the name became synonymous with the psychic link.

The minutiae is debatable but I don't actually mind the end result (I think I've said this before). A possible "sticking point" about it being synonymous is the potential confusion of what the term "Khala" is actually referring to when it's used. If one has the sentence "The Khala failed." - does that necessarily mean both the philosophy and the psychic link failed together? Can it be one or the other? If so, how do we delineate it if the two terms are interchangeable? Also, if we try to explain how the Khala works, it's still confusing if "Khala" and "psychic link" are interchangeable. For example: "Protoss use the Khala to access the psychic link" actually means the same thing as "Protoss use the psychic link to access the Khala" when they really shouldn't.

Is this more clear?

Quite and much appreciated.

Tura, did you read one of my later posts? I corrected myself to say that the Khala wasn't well defined in the beginning, it was kept intentionally vague, without explaining why the castes formed, or what specific ceremonies/daily philosophies were involved.

We don't really need to know the specific ins-and-outs of it in order to understand a fairly simple concept. It's defined well enough as a system of behaviour that calls on the Protoss to forsake individual whim (the cause of the Aeon of Strife) and to become a communal race again. Instead of having many warring tribes with different opinions fighting each other (as it was before during the Aeon of Strife), the caste system essentially made all the Protoss into one tribe in theory. It was done this way to distance themselves for their shameful past and to foster a new beginning (paraphrasing from the manual).

The idea with the 3 castes is that they are supposed to be co-dependent on each other such that each can't exist on their own to form Protoss society. Of course, Protoss habits seem to die hard since they retained their tribal qualities even through this new system such that members of one particular tribe would tend to start dominating the caste (ie: Judicator caste being mostly those from the Ara tribe). There's some interesting commentary to be had here because as things turn to shit for the Protoss throughout The Fall due in part to infighting, though Aldaris and the Conclave are often seen as the "system" being at fault, there's also the implication that the Protoss really are a flawed race that just can't use a perfectly good system. An expression of their impurity of essence, perhaps?

[Shadow Archon]

Just to note, I'm mostly using Khala to be synonymous with the Link here.

Hey Shadow, what do you think of the Protoss losing the Khala in LotV?

Well, losing the Khala is a big deal, especially since all the Protoss on the Ark will being losing it for good. Last I checked in the lore, Nerve Chords don't grow back, so this is a permanent action taken by Artanis and the Protoss on the Arkship.

So, this fact begs the question, if any of the Protoss like the High-Templar or Zealots use their normal psionic powers in-game, how do their powers work?

The Protoss did have psionic powers before the Khala, but they still had Nerve Chords, and specifically, Protoss without Nerve Chords had to use the Void.

So, I'm curious how they will explain that. I'm guessing since Protoss Archons still work and they never have Nerve Chords on their models, the fact that two Dark Templar can create normal Archons as well as Dark going by both games, and that the Terrans have psionics that mostly look like normal Protoss psionic powers, it isn't too big of an issue and doesn't have precedence, but it's just one of the assumptions that have been made about them.

Without the Khala though and without using the Void, the Protoss should be weaker than normal. Of course, this game is called "Legacy of the Void" so, they probably will be driving into using the Void. At least, if not by the Mutilated Khalai, but then at least by Artanis.

There is the whole "Amon made the Zerg hive mind for the express purpose of controlling the Zerg." and the fact that Amon is corrupting the Khala here.

I'm slightly worried that there might be a reveal that Amon intended for the Khala to be created for this purpose so he could corrupt the link, and that would be pretty cheap to me.

Hopefully, they don't do that, and it is just Amon taking advantage of the pseudo Hive Mind after he couldn't take control of the Zerg, and assuming that, given my own theory on how Amon died and where he will resurrect (him being one of the Xel'naga that the Overmind ate in the manual and thus him coming back from its corpse), that's him taking advantage of the Khaydarin Crystals on Aiur to do the job.

This would explain precisely why the Overmind needed Khaydarin crystals on Aiur in SC1 when that was never a prerequisite for landing on Char or the Second Overmind's creation on Char. It's part of Amon's back-up plan to connect himself to the Khala.

And, well, depending upon how they execute it, this could be either good or bad.

It does actually show that Amon was reacting to what all the other players were doing.

In the bad end, Amon did not corrupt the Khala and mind control the Protoss because he had all of the Zerg, so, I guess this is him being a sneaky bastard, responding to what everyone else is doing. The only Zerg he seems to have right now are the ones on Aiur, which is still a big chunk because of the majority of SC1's Zerg being on Aiur from the initial invasion, squatting there, and reproducing.

So, we'll just have to see how they go with it.

Honestly, this idea is the most interesting one they've had out of all of Starcraft 2 IMHO.

The majority of the Protoss being forced to lose the Khala by Amon is much better than the Primal Zerg.

I just wonder how it will work with their Preserver?



I guess that's why her Nerve Chords are in some Protoss machine?

To keep Amon's influence from her since she needs her nerve chords?

If the Disruptor description holds any water, what do you think about the idea of the Protoss getting a semblance of it back through artificial means?

I'd really have to think about it after we know more about the Purifiers.

Because, a technological substitute for the Khala is fine I think, but that dynamic has so much more to explore when you have a Protons-created sentient AIs.

Do the Purifiers already have a "synthetic" Khala? And if so, does that mean individual Protoss that were once organic and after a mind upload can share their experiences as a meat bag with a naturally created AI?

That would be pretty cool to explore.

Because any synthetic Khala would have to consider the Purifiers or else it feels like they just ignored so much potential, which would turn the idea a bit sour.

There is pretty great potential here.

The original Khala shouldn't be gone for good if we get a good end with the Protoss surviving.

While the majority will not have their Nerve Chords, they can preserve the feeling of the Khala with machines, and then re-teach the Protoss of the next generation the Khala. Assuming how many survive from being controlled by Amon is too little a number.

So, it would be interesting to have in a future Starcraft to have a synthetic link and a psionic link both being the Khala.

I probably need to make a new thread on this, but it feels like at the end of the game, the Protoss are going to be really more diverse.

Now, not only will we have the united Khalai and Nerazim, but we now have the Purifiers, the Khalai cut off from the Khala for good, and the Tal'Darim.

So, you have the Protoss that follow the Khala that survived the ordeal with Amon. You have those that still follow the philosophy and the religion without the ability to partake in the link itself including Artanis, his soldiers, and the army of Protoss that were held in Stasis for centuries who used to follow the Conclave. You have the Nerazim, the original "cut the Nerve Chords" group who use the Void. You have the Protoss created AI race.

And you also have the Tal'Darim.

I'm really wondering how they expand on them, because, so far? They've been a cheap way so the player can have a Protoss to fight in the campaign. There's so much more potential here though.

These guys are the Protoss that are closest to the original Protoss actually. Original being, those before the Khala at all. These guys don't use the Khala, still have their Nerve Chords, and are violent, superstitious, with a religion focused on following a renegade Xel'naga as their god that plans on ruining the entire Xel'naga cycle.

These guys are straight out of the Aeon of Strife with no social reform! They are the ones that still hate the Xel'naga for what they did to the Protoss for abandoning them and considering them failures.

I am worried though, because, the LotV writer did say that the Tal'Darim split from the main Protoss millions of years ago and he did say that the Protoss need to change from a thought pattern that they've had for millions of millions of years, implying that the Aeon of Strife was a really long ass time ago...so, I'm wondering exactly how the timeline here works.

This might mean that these guys are the technologically capable remnants of the Pre-Aeon of Strife era Protoss, which would explain why their faction is big.

...I think I'm rambling too much right now.

Simply that the Khala was clearly defined from the beginning. It was in reply to Nissa's comment that the Khala was never defined in SC/BW.

Okay then.

Never having read the books, I posed it as a question, not a statement because I didn't really know. I was probably being a bit melodramatic where it says "everything" but a change of some kind did happen later in the books. Based on what I bolded, I think that's something we both agree on at the least.

Oh, sure.

The minutiae is debatable but I don't actually mind the end result (I think I've said this before). A possible "sticking point" about it being synonymous is the potential confusion of what the term "Khala" is actually referring to when it's used. If one has the sentence "The Khala failed." - does that necessarily mean both the philosophy and the psychic link failed together? Can it be one or the other? If so, how do we delineate it if the two terms are interchangeable? Also, if we try to explain how the Khala works, it's still confusing if "Khala" and "psychic link" are interchangeable. For example: "Protoss use the Khala to access the psychic link" actually means the same thing as "Protoss use the psychic link to access the Khala" when they really shouldn't.

Eh, yeah, there is the potential for confusion, but depending upon how they portray it in LotV, we should know if they mean it as a whole or just the link itself.

[Turalyon]

So, this fact begs the question, if any of the Protoss like the High-Templar or Zealots use their normal psionic powers in-game, how do their powers work?

I assume that since the Protoss can create machines that can replicate certain psionic-based effects (like Plasma shields), they could maybe work around it to a degree until they learn how to use the Void or find/create a proper replacement.

Without the Khala though and without using the Void, the Protoss should be weaker than normal. Of course, this game is called "Legacy of the Void" so, they probably will be driving into using the Void. At least, if not by the Mutilated Khalai, but then at least by Artanis.

Embracing the void seems like the only option but it's an out that can be seen as "too easy and boring" if written poorly. I'd imagine the void is not something all Protoss would be able to wield and/or that it would be either difficult or long-term training to use... more time than what LotV's timeframe would allow I'd wager. Also, this path essentially makes the Protoss race become Nerazim which limits their scope and complexity in future. Would be nice if the Protoss were more active in finding and developing a solution of there own.

I'm slightly worried that there might be a reveal that Amon intended for the Khala to be created for this purpose so he could corrupt the link, and that would be pretty cheap to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be the case.

This would explain precisely why the Overmind needed Khaydarin crystals on Aiur in SC1 when that was never a prerequisite for landing on Char or the Second Overmind's creation on Char.

Maybe, but we don't actually know if the Neo-Overmind's creation or appearance on Char didn't involve Khaydarin Crystals either.

Honestly, this idea is the most interesting one they've had out of all of Starcraft 2 IMHO.

The majority of the Protoss being forced to lose the Khala by Amon is much better than the Primal Zerg.

I agree on both counts... as long as they don't just treat it only as a gimmick to move the plot.

I just wonder how it will work with their Preserver?

I guess that's why her Nerve Chords are in some Protoss machine?

I think we might be on to something here...

That would be pretty cool to explore.

Because any synthetic Khala would have to consider the Purifiers or else it feels like they just ignored so much potential, which would turn the idea a bit sour.

There is pretty great potential here.

Yeah, I'd considered all this, too. I'd guess that the artificial/synthetic replacement would have to have some degree of sentience (where the Purifier's would fit in) in order for the Khala to even be used/go through. There's plenty they could do with symbiont Protoss!

And you also have the Tal'Darim.

I'm really wondering how they expand on them, because, so far? They've been a cheap way so the player can have a Protoss to fight in the campaign. There's so much more potential here though.

You never know, we might get a little bit of what you said about them in LotV if they're one of the factions of Protoss the player has to rally to their cause. At this point and because the Tal'Darim have been implemented so poorly (especially when you don't have EU knowledge), any bit of expansion on their part can only be a step in the right direction. Even then, there's the likelihood that it will all be "too little, too late" anyway.

I am worried though, because, the LotV writer did say that the Tal'Darim split from the main Protoss millions of years ago and he did say that the Protoss need to change from a thought pattern that they've had for millions of millions of years, implying that the Aeon of Strife was a really long ass time ago...so, I'm wondering exactly how the timeline here works.

Well, the term "Aeon" does represent an enormous of time that is usually measured in the "millions of years" range. Still, could be hyperbole since Zeratul mentions serving Raszagal for millenia (when he probably meant centuries) when he's yet to have lived one. Who knows?