What Are You Watching?

[DonnyZeDoof]

As stand alone films most are Ok. Some are really bad, like Captain America: The First Avenger and Hulk (without the reboot). The fact that there's a continuity between the films is what made the franchise so successful.

I agree with you, on that most are action-packed, fan-bait films. However, Disney has learned how to entertain the audience and how to build up to the iconic movies. You are probably not part of the target audience and that's why you just don't care. They aimed towards the mainstream media and the money. They are not trying to make some form of art (while the animation can really be beautiful). However, you might like what's coming for the following films: "Captain America: Civil War" and "Inhumans".

I might give those a try. One of my friends told me that the latest Captain America film was good so I watched it. It had some good ideas (Captain America adjusting from the extremely patriotic 20th century world to the morally ambiguous present day) but overall it was still full of every single action film cliche you could imagine.

Disney is also constantly trying to get the whole Marvel franchise together. They recently got Spiderman and X-men might come next.

Disney should keep its hands off X-Men. That's the only superhero franchise atm with any depth. I could probably write an essay about the literary depth in X-Men: Days of Future Past. I don't want Disney to mess up this series with their cash-grabbing methods.

Besides I never saw how X-Men fitted into the larger Marvel universe, even in the comics. We never see the Fantastic Four, Spiderman etc getting oppressed and being called mutants.

Like the Transformers films? They're even more brain-dead than the Marvel films and yet people still keep going to watch them in droves, too.

Transformers made me lose my faith in humanity.

I don't mind that. It's better than them trying to be something else that they're clearly not meant to be.

Transformers can be a lot better. The animated series did have some pretty mature moments. My favourite animated version, Beast Wars, was one of the darkest kids shows I ever watched. Imagine if Bay got his hands on Beast Wars. I can't even imagine how badly he could mess it up.

[Turalyon]

Disney should keep its hands off X-Men. That's the only superhero franchise atm with any depth. I could probably write an essay about the literary depth in X-Men: Days of Future Past. I don't want Disney to mess up this series with their cash-grabbing methods.

I wonder what did you think about "The Last Stand" and "X-men Origins: Wolverine" then?

Besides I never saw how X-Men fitted into the larger Marvel universe, even in the comics. We never see the Fantastic Four, Spiderman etc getting oppressed and being called mutants.

The "oppression/vilification of mutants" is only one aspect of the X-Men. The other aspect of X-Men is soap-operish and long-winded drama, fighting against colourful enemies and other "whiz-bangery" - which is in-line with the other Marvel properties.

Transformers can be a lot better. The animated series did have some pretty mature moments. My favourite animated version, Beast Wars, was one of the darkest kids shows I ever watched. Imagine if Bay got his hands on Beast Wars. I can't even imagine how badly he could mess it up.

If I want maturity, I wouldn't go to or expect it from Transformers firsthand. It's just not what it's about. Sure, you can add some of it in there, but that's no guarantee it would make it better. It could just as easily make it worse by coming off as being pretentious.

[DonnyZeDoof]

I wonder what did you think about "The Last Stand" and "X-men Origins: Wolverine" then?

Well even the best film series have their low points. Personally I think X-Men movies are only ever done well if Bryan Singer is involved. He's like the only guy who seems to know how to add a lot of depth to the films and not have them come off as pretentious.

The "oppression/vilification of mutants" is only one aspect of the X-Men. The other aspect of X-Men is soap-operish and long-winded drama, fighting against colourful enemies and other "whiz-bangery" - which is in-line with the other Marvel properties.

But the oppression of mutants is pretty much what the entire series revolves around on. I'd go as far to say that the socio-political issues the series raise are far mroe important than the fight scenes. Magneto survived through the holocaust as a child and that's why he believes that mutants need to seize control otherwise they'll be eradicated. Professor X was inspired by Martin Luther King Jr. and believes that humans and mutants can peacefully coexist.

There's basically no convincing way that Marvel can explain why the X-Men are othered while Spiderman and Captain America are hailed as heroes.

If I want maturity, I wouldn't go to or expect it from Transformers firsthand. It's just not what it's about.

Have you ever seen any of the animated series?

Sure, you can add some of it in there, but that's no guarantee it would make it better. It could just as easily make it worse by coming off as being pretentious.

I don't see how any level of pretentiousness that comes out of a desire to make Transformers more mature can out do all the pretentiousness that Michael Bay has already inserted into the films. Remember that joke about statutory rape in the latest Tranformers film? What is wrong with Bay. It sounded like he was trying to justify pedophilia, rape etc in that scene

[The_Blade]

Disney should keep its hands off X-Men. That's the only superhero franchise atm with any depth. I could probably write an essay about the literary depth in X-Men: Days of Future Past. I don't want Disney to mess up this series with their cash-grabbing methods.

Besides I never saw how X-Men fitted into the larger Marvel universe, even in the comics. We never see the Fantastic Four, Spiderman etc getting oppressed and being called mutants.

But the oppression of mutants is pretty much what the entire series revolves around on. I'd go as far to say that the socio-political issues the series raise are far mroe important than the fight scenes. Magneto survived through the holocaust as a child and that's why he believes that mutants need to seize control otherwise they'll be eradicated. Professor X was inspired by Martin Luther King Jr. and believes that humans and mutants can peacefully coexist.

There's basically no convincing way that Marvel can explain why the X-Men are othered while Spiderman and Captain America are hailed as heroes.

I'm glad we can agree. Days of Future Past is really an amazing movie, IMO. As a plus, Fox found a way to clean up the disaster left by previous movies (X-men 2 and 3). However, there's not much you say to defend the whole X-Men franchise. Like Turalyon said, we've had really bad movies from X-Men.

Mutant discrimination, by itself, won't grant depth either. The "Human Enemy" was really badly coined during the first films. Not a single relevant human was an ally or neutral towards the X-men and most of the real villians were anti-mutant psychos (so much for moral complexity). The writers wanted the audience to hate humans, but they developed side plots and arcs between Magneto and Xavier that collapsed under the perceived hate. Days of Future past was the first film to fully commit towards this theme and develope reasonable characters.

Fantastic Four is a group led by an elite scientist, but is under the army's thumb (film). Spiderman has a great reputation, but is still followed by the media and army (comic relief ehh?). Iron Man is Tony Stark (super rich). No one can mess with Hulk. So on and so on. They are untouchable for some reason. So, they are protected from Humans. Mutant discrimination is not aimed at these characters, but it's probably fueled by the fear they inspire. Cinematic Marvel started the show with "The Battle of New York" within Avengers. Here's SHIELD policy on mutants/miracles:

Hidden Content:

SHIELD finds mutants and profiles them through the following list: Avenger Initiative > Imprisionment/Training > Kill > Watchlist. Basically, if you are a mutant missfit yoy will be captured or watched for the rest of your life. The agency would decide if you can coexist with other humans first, though.

X-men is a group of mutant missfits trained to be better mutants for the sake of everyone on Earth. Few X-men have outstanding origins, and most were victims of social discrimination. None of them, besides Xavier, have political influences or army contacts. They are of no use to humanity, like the rest of the "Heroes".

Notes on Agents of Shield, Season 2, Episode 8 "The Things We Bury"

Hidden Content:

Hell, I did not expected the brutality and gore of this episode. I was seriously not expecting that. Can't wait to see what happens with Mr. Whitehall.

I can't believe I could not see who was lying, Ward or his brother... The plot plays are good.

[Nissa]

Adorable indeed.

I said KOREAN culture, not Juche/Kim tyrant culture.

By the way, never mind. Gu Family Book has a great beginning, but ends up falling apart about halfway through and becoming nothing more than a collection of Kdrama tropes. So disappointing.

Oh, we're talking about Marvel now? Um....it's all boring, and reminds me of why I don't read comic books. ...That's all I got.

[ragnarok]

I'm glad we can agree. Days of Future Past is really an amazing movie, IMO. As a plus, Fox found a way to clean up the disaster left by previous movies (X-men 2 and 3). However, there's not much you say to defend the whole X-Men franchise. Like Turalyon said, we've had really bad movies from X-Men.

Mutant discrimination, by itself, won't grant depth either. The "Human Enemy" was really badly coined during the first films. Not a single relevant human was an ally or neutral towards the X-men and most of the real villians were anti-mutant psychos (so much for moral complexity). The writers wanted the audience to hate humans, but they developed side plots and arcs between Magneto and Xavier that collapsed under the perceived hate. Days of Future past was the first film to fully commit towards this theme and develope reasonable characters.

Days of the Future Past was good for cleaning up the problem with The Last Stand. I didn't think X2 was a crap film and everything. For mutant discrimination, yes the writers wanted the audience to hate humans, but this is because of their own paranoia.

Days of the Future Past developed reasonable characters on the Mutant side, I'm still unsure on the human side. One of the biggest flaws on Xavier's part is that he continued to believe humanity would eventually grow to accept mutants, which as the original timeline showed, never actually happened.

[Turalyon]

But the oppression of mutants is pretty much what the entire series revolves around on. I'd go as far to say that the socio-political issues the series raise are far mroe important than the fight scenes. Magneto survived through the holocaust as a child and that's why he believes that mutants need to seize control otherwise they'll be eradicated. Professor X was inspired by Martin Luther King Jr. and believes that humans and mutants can peacefully coexist.

I would argue that that theme certainly makes X-men unique and lends it it's greatest/most interesting stories but not that X-Men necessarily entirely revolves around it. One just needs to look at the current state of X-Men comics to see what I'm getting at here. Most of those are concerned about individual characters/teams and all that other stuff I mentioned that are associated with a Marvel comic properties.

There's basically no convincing way that Marvel can explain why the X-Men are othered while Spiderman and Captain America are hailed as heroes.

Yes, they can. The X-Men initial conceit is that the in-universe layman knows nothing about mutants in general, least of all the various factions like the X-men or the Brotherhood, except that they potentially exhibit powers that grant them advantages over those who don't have powers and that they can't predict that any given mutant will be morally good or not. The initial conceit for specific individuals/heroes like Spidey and Cap is that they openly show themselves to the public as being heroic and doing heroic things from the outset.

Have you ever seen any of the animated series?

I'm more of Gen1 guy so I've only seen the majority of that animated series. It was definitely a kid's show about how awesome robots turning into different things and fighting each other and nothing more. It has as much complexity and maturity as you would expect for a show that was aimed at entertaining children. That's not a bad thing, mind you.

I don't see how any level of pretentiousness that comes out of a desire to make Transformers more mature can out do all the pretentiousness that Michael Bay has already inserted into the films. Remember that joke about statutory rape in the latest Tranformers film? What is wrong with Bay. It sounded like he was trying to justify pedophilia, rape etc in that scene

I wouldn't call Michael Bay's Transformers pretentious. If they were, it's the least of it's problems. I honestly don't remember much of what happens in the Transformers films since all of them invited me to turn my brain off which is kind of what I expected it to do the whole time. The whole thing is just a setup (excuse if you will) for mindless action sequences and explosions - that's as serious as I would expect from a kids cartoon about "robots in disguise" and "Autobots waging their battle to destroy the evil Decepticons".

[ragnarok]

I wouldn't call Michael Bay's Transformers pretentious. If they were, it's the least of it's problems. I honestly don't remember much of what happens in the Transformers films since all of them invited me to turn my brain off which is kind of what I expected it to do the whole time. The whole thing is just a setup (excuse if you will) for mindless action sequences and explosions - that's as serious as I would expect from a kids cartoon about "robots in disguise" and "Autobots waging their battle to destroy the evil Decepticons".

Half of ALL the Bay films are just that, you know.

[Visions of Khas]

So I just finished Psycho Pass season 1. Fuck that was awesome. It's a good thing I watched tihs with my Game of Thrones glasses on, too.

[DemolitionSquid]

So I just finished Psycho Pass season 1. Fuck that was awesome. It's a good thing I watched this with my Game of Thrones glasses on, too.

Never doubt a squid.