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Thread: What Are You Watching?

  1. #361

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Were you expecting some hot lesbian action in a kids show or something? XD

    It seems consistent at the least whilst not being obnoxious about it nor trying to push an agenda (maybe? I don't know, haven't seen it). It being seen/shown as "just another thing" about the character is how "representation" in media should look like because in real-life, that's just how it is, too.
    https://youtu.be/1aFUyC_WhUY

  2. #362

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    ^ If it's considered too "little", they're just pandering to a base; if it's considered too "much", they've got an agenda. You can't win either way and taking a militant "all or nothing" approach does nothing to help.

    As for me, I don't give a shit. If it's there at all and is an internally consistent portrayal throughout, then it's fine (not great, nor terrible either). It's hard enough for most fictional stories to be internally consistent within their own universes and narratives already without also having this extra hoo-ha about the "appropriate and sufficient representation of a certain minority" to worry about. If you want a case of really piss-poor non-heterosexuality representation to complain about though, go see the current/modern Star Trek TV shows. They're so badly written and "included" that not only is it a detriment to the story/universe/narrative/characterisation, but a damning representation rather than a beneficial one.
    Last edited by Turalyon; 05-29-2020 at 11:48 PM.
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  3. #363

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    Pretty much every media discussion I’ve tried to have in the past month has been so stressful that it gives me diarrhea daily.

    EDIT: Sorry, I meant every media discussion I've tried to have since as long as I can remember. Whether it's television, games, whatever, it's always so stressful that it makes me literally sick to my stomach.

    I need to take a break from internet discussions. Like, forever.
    Last edited by Mislagnissa; 05-29-2020 at 12:56 PM.

  4. #364
    The_Blade's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    The Critical Drinker, Lily Orchard, Mauler, Vito, etc are all youtubers I would group under the same category of polar opinions/rants. I can agree on a lot of the things they say, BUT never will I ever agree with their main message or tone. Their goal is to either create emotion or humor, neither of which translates very well into an unbiased, informational speech. On this particular video of Lily, I can agree with several of her comments of LGBTQ standards or the fact that the best couple in tv history is Morticia and Gomez Addams (lol). However, her ultimatum or conclusion of her video is the pinnacle of an extremist approach towards conflict resolution. As Tura pointed out, it's just about stretching reality into extremes until everything breaks.

    I'll just blame the entertainment business for the narrative sideshow we've had for the past decade. It just feels like the third generation of film producers/actors/directors are wreaking havoc on every single franchise and western media outlet from their unearned, privileged positions. Best analogy I've heard about the failure of the SW sequels is that Ryan Johnson and JJ Abrams are both "acting like rich children who break each other's toys because they don't like how the other one is playing with them". This holds true to so much of the industry. Europe and Asia are dominating the production of quality stories, because Hollywood has broken itself by inflating the costs of producing and launching a film into ridiculous levels. Example, it takes about 50M, minimum, to successfully do marketing on a featured film regardless of production costs.

    On top of that, America has always been too "puritan" about gender rolls, sexuality and media. It's just a cultural thing. This can be easily seen on the differences in comedy between the UK and the US. Despite being a reality show at a meta level one could look at it like a controlled environment were only the culture changes, even if it's staged for the enjoyment of a TV audience. Ironically Mexico, being the less international or culturally enriched country, has censored kid's anime far less than the USA. We had lesbian Sailor Moon, Congratulations Evangelion in Spanish and then the end too, Sakura Card Captors with the awkward romantic trades, Shaman King were Riu just seduces everyone, etc.

    In my mind a kid's show should show the virtues of morality to children through any storytelling mechanism rather than explaining directly the problems of the world. Take the Lion King 2, Shrek, Loony Toons, Tom and Jerry, Dexter's Lab, Gargoyles, Renaissance Disney, etc They all dealt with either very basic colloquial concepts or more profound issues like racism and war. There was a need to entertain both adults and children as there was only a single TV per household before the 2000s and most shows were consistently designed to cover both roles. Children have innocent minds and will never understand double standard jokes or polemic topics in film, it's the adults that overreact to this. Nowadays, adults have forgotten their own upbringing or want to shelter their kids from the world. So be it censoring gay content or enforcing it, the motivation is the same one: to project one's insecurities to the innocent minds of children. Shows don't need to entertain adults anymore too, so we have the shitty role model of Pepa Pig now among other empty cartoons. The end of Steven Universe was so mediocre my little cousin was as down as I was with GoT.

    IMHO Dragon Ball was a better roll model on teaching kids the limits and dangers of violence than any other show has been for all time.

    We need a man like Fred Roggers back in TV to create educational shows and content for children. Honestly listen at all the material you can find on him. One great example.

    Who watched today's NASA/Space X launch btw?

  5. #365

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    I do have to admit that I have a much greater fondness for cartoons from before the last decade, even though the queer rep in Western cartoons is terrible.

    Nowadays there is queer rep but itís both needlessly coy and obnoxiously self-congratulatory. Itís a step backward compared to several anime, and Japan doesnít have legal gay marriage.

    Pixarís Out short is probably the best queer rep of the last several decades, because the protagonist is immediately established as openly gay and in a committed relationship. But it gets nowhere near as much attention as the Avatar: The Last Airbender wannabes.

  6. #366

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    Iím watching He-Man 2002 and Iím astonished by how fun it is. Thereís a lot of positive masculinity in it, totally opposite from what I see people saying about He-Man being toxic. I think Iím crushing on Mossman too.

  7. #367

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    IMHO Dragon Ball was a better roll model on teaching kids the limits and dangers of violence than any other show has been for all time.
    Huhhh I don't see it lol, care to elaborate? They trivialize shooting other people to start with. Like Launch is always spraying them when she goes in her crazy mode, everyone is immune to conventional weapons in general, etc. Martial arts are just fun and game and people fight close to their death in tournaments but none of that matters. Who cares about concussions and whatever else? That's just the violence aspect, we can also talk about how kid Goku slaps women's vagina, Roshi molests teens among many other things.

    And in fact, the mangas were really popular when I was a kid and I got into fights because we thought it was cool to fight lol. Thankfully no one tried to emulate Goku's behavior beyond that though. But anyways, I have 0 issue with these things in an entertainment product otherwise, I just don't think it's a good show for kids. Teens yeah, but not kids. Not without parental guidance anyways.

  8. #368
    The_Blade's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I’m watching He-Man 2002 and I’m astonished by how fun it is. There’s a lot of positive masculinity in it, totally opposite from what I see people saying about He-Man being toxic. I think I’m crushing on Mossman too.
    I am glad you liked it. This is something that's very authentic of older media. Everything was transparent and simple. He Man was buffed as hell in the same silly, heroic disguise that is now used in "My Hero Academia". Bugs bunny and other cartoons wore women clothing for the practical comic effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Huhhh I don't see it lol, care to elaborate? They trivialize shooting other people to start with. Like Launch is always spraying them when she goes in her crazy mode, everyone is immune to conventional weapons in general, etc. Martial arts are just fun and game and people fight close to their death in tournaments but none of that matters. Who cares about concussions and whatever else? That's just the violence aspect, we can also talk about how kid Goku slaps women's vagina, Roshi molests teens among many other things.

    And in fact, the mangas were really popular when I was a kid and I got into fights because we thought it was cool to fight lol. Thankfully no one tried to emulate Goku's behavior beyond that though. But anyways, I have 0 issue with these things in an entertainment product otherwise, I just don't think it's a good show for kids. Teens yeah, but not kids. Not without parental guidance anyways.
    I guess I am also talking about 10 year olds and forward. DBZ is far from the perfect show, but it's innocent on many modern tropes of anime related to sexuality (while it invented the powerlevel trope ). Aside from Roshi's creepy old man stereotype, most "sexual" jokes revolve around the innocent ignorance of sexuality for children and serve as a comedic relief for older audiences (include kid goku penis). Anyways...

    Violence. You see the minds of children are mostly empty on the theme of morality and violence at a young age. Probably the most unpredictable and violent group of people would be a group of 13 year old male orphans on a war zone. Moral guidance is necessary for having healthy minded teenagers and most of the non-parent education would take place at school, especially within their friend's group. Playing around with rocks/bricks and hurting someone would be a strong reality check and a conventional way to uncover violence by children. This actually happened a lot here in Mexico were children threw bricks at each other due to the actions of the main characters on the 1980s Mexican sitcom "El Chavo del Ocho". DBZ found, maybe with no real intention, how to teach children to properly KO each other out without the use of excessive force.

    DBZ teaches children to play around 4 things: brotherhood, no real enemy, magic "fighting" and being hurt/death. The first two are easy to grasp (or probably translates worse onto the minds of children). Vegetta and Picolo all start as former antagonists, but they become part of the crew through trials of understanding; while enemies like Cell, Freezer and Boo have a goal too terrifying to be real. Magic "fighting" or the play fighting interpreted by children on DBZ is very simple throw the most punches possible and then do a stance for a Kamehameha. This is a pretty safe way to hit a friend for the first time, IMO. The last item of the list is what triggers the "humane" virtue of compassion on children and can snap them out of a playful situation. Characters get hurt, bleed and die on DBZ and kids can understand this. Moreover, the first three items on the list fall back as great backup: help your brothers in pain, there is no child that's your enemy, if there's blood things are serious, etc. This is something this show does great. It explains the concequences of violence at a level that's direct and simple without going into a methaphore like "oh no the forest has been destroyed by the war".

    Modern shows shy away from blood due to modern standards, but I believe this to be a mistake. As cartoons get more and more sheltered, they teach less and less about life. Might as well have your kids watch empty Youtube clips for days. If I were to talk about some other good overall role model shows I would probably put PowerRangers: Lightspeed Rescue and Avatar the Last Airbender a step above DBZ. However, DBZ is a 10/10 IMO on this topic.

  9. #369

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    The Critical Drinker, Lily Orchard, Mauler, Vito, etc are all youtubers I would group under the same category of polar opinions/rants.
    Lol, I've actually been watching these not too long ago. Not Vito, but some of the others. Lily I watched one video on, and while it started good, towards the end it got sort of ranty, which I don't want to get into here because I didn't finish the video so I don't know all of the point. Mauler is interesting when he makes videos on his own, but he's been doing these podcasts where he and his friends talk over each other while "critiquing" videos of people. There's just too many people talking over each other and they pause the videos they comment on so much that it's hard for a coherent thought to come out of it. Plus they always seem to go after really dumb videos, so after a while it feels like they're just mocking the youtube equivalent of disabled kids. I could get into it if they logically pulled apart videos, but you can't have effective commentary when people are continually interrupting each other.

    Drinker I like as a person, but honestly it seems like he's just saying what most people think. He was really into Joker and Ford v. Ferrari, but those films were okay rather than great. Drinker seems like he deals in extremes, rather than the reality that most movies hover around the middle.

    Honestly, I'm with Tura on this one. People are more insistent on representation these days than good writing, and well, that's the problem. Even worse than that is the feeling as a writer that if I don't do the representation, I won't get published. It's basically modern censorship, in that I have to say what they want me to say or else be left alone to some form of self publishing.
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  10. #370

    Default Re: What Are You Watching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    People are more insistent on representation these days than good writing, and well, that's the problem. Even worse than that is the feeling as a writer that if I don't do the representation, I won't get published. It's basically modern censorship, in that I have to say what they want me to say or else be left alone to some form of self publishing.
    That is sad. There was supposed to be a difference between "representation" and "pandering", but these days, they're kinda synonymous.
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