What Are You Watching?

[Turalyon]

Guillermo del Toro's "Pan's Labyrinth", while being more of a historical fiction piece, enthralls you into the fantasy realm of a child's mind with silksmooth storytelling.

Best movie he's made by far. It's perhaps the only movie where a human antagonist/villain (Vidal) feels legitimately more terrifying and evil than the monster(s).

I just finished Westworld season 3 and honestly I am heavily underwhelmed by these new plot points and lack of new interesting characters. I feel like the season did create a favorable ground for the later 3 seasons that have been already greenlighted by HBO, but I do not have any high expectations coming forwards. I totally recommend Season 1 as a stand alone story, if anyone is looking to start a series.

Just about to start it but I'm not surprised. Was kinda sensing it was getting a bit long-in-the-tooth in season 2 and I also found that ending on Season 1 was sufficient. Sequelitis has struck again!

Well, to continue my unorthodox positions, I actually think the Phantom Menace is the best Skywalker saga™ movie XD.

Is that because there's the least amount of Skywalker in that one?

Anakin annoys the hell out of me in ep 2 and 3 though so it's hard for me to like them.

"I don't like sand".

The best Star Wars movie is easily and by a large margin Rogue One. That says a lot from me considering I usually find dull SW stuff that don't involve much jedis. Jedi/Siths are the best thing in Star Wars and I'm baffled by the fact that Disney keeps releasing crap that don't have that stuff. Solo movie, Lando movie, etc, man I couldn't care less. Give me some old republic jedi/sith stuff already wtf

I agree with Rogue One being potentially the best "modern" Star Wars film. Like Blade said, it balances new and old elements quite well and for once, it actually feels like it lives up to the "War" part in Star Wars. It's a great film and it's weird how it's not as well-liked by some fans because it's a great film in and of itself. It's kinda like how some Batman fans don't like The Dark Knight (like it not being about Batman and how he's always behind the eight-ball/not smart as the character is supposed to be) despite it being a very solid film in it's own right.

I'm neither here nor their with Force wielders in Star Wars. Sure, they're maybe the most eye-catching, visceral and aesthetically interesting part of Star Wars but I felt they were better off with an aura of mystery to them like it was in original Star Wars. Kinda like how I feel about Dark Templar in Sc1, and not so much in BW... I do agree though that Old Republic stuff would be a great focus for Jedi/Sith. The Knights of the Old Republic games (not the MMORPG) were my balm for that, especially KotoR2 where the writer, Chris Avellone, harshly deconstructs the Jedi and Sith. Kreia forever!

Since we're on topic, I'm kinda curious tura and blade, what are your top 5 all time movies?

I don't have a list of top/all time movies since it kinda depends on the mood I'm in at any given time. I'm currently thinking of Charlie Kaufman films at the moment, like Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind and Being John Malkovich. Mindfuckery, a bit of dark/depressing and whimsy at some level, often make for an interesting film to me. That's not to say I don't like happy movies/endings, too, though (love me some Pixar animation movies)! Gah, can't decide!

[sandwich_bird]

Is that because there's the least amount of Skywalker in that one?

That might have something to do with it

It's mostly about the modernization of the look and feel of the franchise. EP 4-5-6 have a lot stuff that turn me off from an aesthetic stand point. It's not just that it's old, it's also some of the design choices. It took me a while to like them just because of this. EP1 really improved in that department and a lot of the set pieces are very interesting and/or cool. It's an amazing world visually from the jedi sword fights to the droid designs to the architecture, etc etc etc.

And, like in the hobbit vs lotr, things feel faster and the actions of the characters match the outcomes (especially the jedis).

I felt they were better off with an aura of mystery to them like it was in original Star Wars. Kinda like how I feel about Dark Templar in Sc1, and not so much in BW...

Hmmm that's an interesting point. Never considered it like that. I guess I like both ways yeah.

I danced with my mother to a remastered version of "Welcome to Jurassic Park" for my wedding.

Damn lol. I'm a big fan of JP but that's next level

#1- Jurassic Park
- Gladiator
- Cinema Paradiso
- 3 Idiots
- Inglorious Basterds

Short Term Favorite:
- La La Land
- Parasite
- Rogue One
- Avengers Infinity War/Endgame
- Interstellar

I'm currently thinking of Charlie Kaufman films at the moment, like Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind and Being John Malkovich.

Interesting picks guys. Some of which, I never heard of (cinema paradiso, 3 idiots, Tura's 2 picks). Trailers look interesting, might give them a try. Kinda surprised by your choices Tura lol

For my part, hard to chose but, in no particular order:
-Jurassic Park 1 as well (was a huge dino fan growing up)
-Akira
-Princess Mononoke
-Starship Troopers (the less critically approved from the list no doubt but damn I love that one)
-Mad Max: Fury Road

I wouldn't be able to start a short term favorite list though. I've seen some fun stuff in the past 2-3 years like Parasite for example but can't say I could consider these among my favorites. Annihilation I could add I guess. Spiderman: Into the Spider Verse was super sexy too... Otherwise I don't know... too much Marvel stuff and bad remakes/sequels lately!

[Turalyon]

Man, I'm trying not to get too excited by the upcoming Dune movie. Quietly optimistic but ready to be disappointed feels about right.

It's mostly about the modernization of the look and feel of the franchise. EP 4-5-6 have a lot stuff that turn me off from an aesthetic stand point. It's not just that it's old, it's also some of the design choices. It took me a while to like them just because of this. EP1 really improved in that department and a lot of the set pieces are very interesting and/or cool. It's an amazing world visually from the jedi sword fights to the droid designs to the architecture, etc etc etc.

Yeah, but for all that improvement, the prequel trilogy lost all the heart and charm of the originals... which the sequel trilogy then cottoned on to and tried to milk, only to get lacklustre results.

Trailers look interesting, might give them a try. Kinda surprised by your choices Tura lol

Yeah well, my tastes are kinda eclectic. I'm just as able to like the stupid (Transformers and Pacific Rim) and silly (Napolean Dynamite and Harold and Kumar go to White Castle) movie just as well as the pretentious one.

Starship Troopers (the less critically approved from the list no doubt but damn I love that one)

I loved this film precisely because of the brainless acting/action (which my immature self enjoyed) and the biting satire that most critics at the time couldn't see at the time (when my mature self enjoyed).

[Turalyon]

Yeah, so... this season of Westworld is kinda crappy. Got one episode to go but it's really starting to get derivative. Semi-spoilers ahead.

The new sci-fi development of it are interesting but they feel kinda just slapped on to drive the plot. Not to mention the "AI spying, predicting and potentially directing our lives" thing was done way, way better in Jonathan Nolan's earlier TV iteration of the same thing, Person of Interest (one of those rare shows that got better and tighter with each season). People should really watch that show instead of what Westworld's cliff-notes version of it is trying to do. Sure, POI is kinda procedural, relatively slow and quite lite on the sci-fi, but it's characters are much well developed in the long-run than what Westworlds' characters are and the world-building is more solid.

Not sure about anyone else, but I'm getting shades of the Matrix in it, too what with the simulations and mind altering that's going on. Compared to another machine that supposedly sees the future in the show Devs, at least the machine in this one is a bit more internally consistent/"realistic in that it isn't really seeing the future but just predicting it and actively manipulating things to create self-fulfilling prophecies.

[The_Blade]

Not sure if you've finished the last episode by now. However, I feel that I can forgive this season for setting the field towards a much more interesting plot in the future. Honestly, Season 1 was an S tier show. Going in blind will give you the best experience, as even the first episode can be a roller coaster. Season's 2 true sin was keeping the viewer under an obnoxious, artificial veil of suspense by keeping at it with the weird time management. Many plot devices fail to trigger as there's already a heavy dramatic irony of how the plot worked during the first season. Season 3 then expands on the failed plots from Season 2. Adding to that, there's little taste to character and a mindless expansion of the world into this none-relatable mess.

Westworld Spoilers:

Hidden Content:

Just by basic character numbers (S1=16, S2=12, S3=8 main characters) we can see the quick decline in plot and conflict variation. To me it's so odd that many of the newly introduced characters perished their plot lines either in season 2 or 3. OG Shogun World crew were all blown to pieces for no good reason. William's daughter got killed on father's day. Eslie's comeback and death is probably one of the most devastating plot lines. Death is so overused to drive plot because at a conceptual level there's no impact of death. However, what enriched the first season was the life of the character itself, and this is absent on these two seasons. It's crazy how much of Arnold is left within Season 1 despite the character being dead. It's mostly filler scenes or feels like it.

I honestly feel that at a conceptual level the world building is correctly executed. Delos alt project, Military involvement, construction workers with robotic side kicks, the fake grand theft auto app, etc.

However, why not give also a clever solution towards characters living on this interesting world? All of the support characters are cookie cutter versions of the main character. Dubs gets reprogrammed to follow Bernard no questions asked, but retains a level of consciousness that's only relevant as comic relief. Caleb's friends are also low life characters with little to no background and what defines them is that they are low life people (or at least this is what sticks with the viewer). Delos had a board of directors we barely knew about, and they all get executed. This whole Serac vs the world felt so cheap. Everyone acting out a revolution due to the data leak was also cheap.

However, Season 4 can introduce other more competent humans. Also go back to the awakening of consciousness. Besides, there should be a more competent guide towards conflict between individuals and what makes life worth living or worth killing for.

[Turalyon]

SPOILERS AHEAD FOR WESTWORLD SEASON 3

However, I feel that I can forgive this season for setting the field towards a much more interesting plot in the future. Honestly, Season 1 was an S tier show. Going in blind will give you the best experience, as even the first episode can be a roller coaster. Season's 2 true sin was keeping the viewer under an obnoxious, artificial veil of suspense by keeping at it with the weird time management. Many plot devices fail to trigger as there's already a heavy dramatic irony of how the plot worked during the first season. Season 3 then expands on the failed plots from Season 2. Adding to that, there's little taste to character and a mindless expansion of the world into this none-relatable mess.

I agree with this assessment. Season 2 tried to recreate Season 1's sense of gimmickry and plot devices more for the sake of doing so rather than as the means for character development. Season 3's shenanigans are not as drawn out (they occur within the episode sometimes) but they're not revelatory nor character building neither. It just seems to be stuff happening, which makes the long quiet shots and the actions scenes also strangely devoid of any weight.

I honestly feel that at a conceptual level the world building is correctly executed.

There's not enough weight to it though. The concept of Season 3 is that the larger, real world is no different to the "theme parks" like Westworld, but there's hardly any time spent building the "real world" especially when there's only a couple of new human characters (Caleb and Serac - who are largely cyphers and broadly sketched as good guy and bad guy respectively) with the season being short and the focus being more on action/things moving at a clip. I was actually getting bored with all the fight scenes because they were largely unnecessary (oh, another Dolores and Maeve fight scene - Why couldn't Dolores and Maeve frickin talk/do that mind meld thing that they seem to be capable of doing? Why are they even resorting to violence against each other?) and inept (those nameless goons with Imperial Stormtrooper training that can't even shoot Dolores even at close range when all she is doing is grappling them was just laughable).

The concept of Rehoboam (the AI) is worthy enough for an entire multi-seasoned show of its own (once again, see Person of Interest) and yet it's just casually introduced with some exposition and then done away within 8 episodes. How are we supposed to sympathise with the real world humans when we don't see them in the same way as see multiple hosts life in Season 1 of Westworld? Caleb is our only reference and he's clearly supposed to be just a human version of what Dolores has been through, yet he's a complete cypher. All we truly know about him is that he's a good guy with a tragic backstory of some kind and that he's confused. I'm not really sure exactly what he's fighting for/what stakes he's under going forward.

All of the support characters are cookie cutter versions of the main character.

Yeah, both figuratively and literally in the case of Dolores.

Dubs gets reprogrammed to follow Bernard no questions asked, but retains a level of consciousness that's only relevant as comic relief. Caleb's friends are also low life characters with little to no background and what defines them is that they are low life people (or at least this is what sticks with the viewer). Delos had a board of directors we barely knew about, and they all get executed. This whole Serac vs the world felt so cheap. Everyone acting out a revolution due to the data leak was also cheap.

How about how the "main" characters of Bernard and William being so sidelined in this season that you could easily skip all their scenes and you'd be none the wiser? Bernard does literally nothing the entire time except for some random, well-acted and emotive scenes which are fine on their own but don't build to anything and then the last minute plot twist is that he has the vague MacGuffin that the villain was looking for the entire time. Likewise, William... god, what a waste of Ed Harris. Sure, there is some cleverness thrown in but the most significant (and lasting) thing that happens to him occurs in a post-credit scene that people can miss.

However, Season 4 can introduce other more competent humans. Also go back to the awakening of consciousness. Besides, there should be a more competent guide towards conflict between individuals and what makes life worth living or worth killing for.

It's getting a bit repetitious though. To me, it's clear they've run out of ideas. They've said what they wanted to say in Season 1, the next few seasons are just an exercise for the sake of continuance more than anything else.

[sandwich_bird]

Not to mention the "AI spying, predicting and potentially directing our lives" thing

Hmm that actually makes me want to check it out. Sounds like S3 has a bit more thought to it than s2.

Rick & Morty made a fun episode on writing called "Never Ricking Morty". I think some of you guys might appreciate it. Otherwise, I've been watching Primal. I gotta say, that cartoon is the epitome of the "show don't tell" mantra. It's easily among the best shows I've watched. It's not a deep series but the flow of the episodes is just perfect.

[Turalyon]

Hmm that actually makes me want to check it out. Sounds like S3 has a bit more thought to it than s2.

It doesn't though. It's all just surface level to get the plot moving - much like the gimmickry that is in S2. If you like that "schtick", you're better off watching Nolan's earlier work, Person of Interest, instead. Amongst the slow build up of the AI/sci-fi element in that show, it's also like a version of what Batman (split into two individuals) would be like in a more "realisitic"/modern setting.

Otherwise, I've been watching Primal. I gotta say, that cartoon is the epitome of the "show don't tell" mantra. It's easily among the best shows I've watched. It's not a deep series but the flow of the episodes is just perfect.

Have you seen Gendy Tartakovsky's Samurai Jack and Clone Wars? The former's a bit dated but he's definitely got that visceral feeling of "actions speak louder than words" thing in his shows down pat.

[Mislagnissa]

I binge-watched She-Ra reboot. It was really bland.

The show is trying desperately to be Avatar: The Last Airbender, but it’s not even Legend of Korra.

They made She-Ra into a lesbian. But it plays no role in the plot because the show doesn’t do any romance arcs. A gay kiss in the last five minutes doesn’t count.

Some mass murders get “redeemed” only because they’re friends with the heroes. They don’t go to the Nuremberg trials or anything.

I say skip it and wait for the next reboot.

[Turalyon]

They made She-Ra into a lesbian. But it plays no role in the plot because the show doesn’t do any romance arcs. A gay kiss in the last five minutes doesn’t count.

Were you expecting some hot lesbian action in a kids show or something? XD

It seems consistent at the least whilst not being obnoxious about it nor trying to push an agenda (maybe? I don't know, haven't seen it). It being seen/shown as "just another thing" about the character is how "representation" in media should look like because in real-life, that's just how it is, too.