Do you still play SC2?

[Nissa]

By story are you referring to the storytelling experience? If not, that's not what I'm talking about and doesn't apply. if so, then, well, we pretty much have to always disagree. Must be genetic.

Either way, watching games instead of playing them. What the hell is wrong with you people.

You do have a point, in that while I can know a story without playing it, playing it may have some affect about the perceived passage of time. Honestly though, the difference is not bound to be large for me. Even when I was a kid, I watched my brother play games rather than play them myself, because that way I could watch the details and remember them for later if he had to replay a level or was doing a second playthrough. Even now I learn about everything -- not just video games -- through reading about it. Besides, Starcraft is a labor of love for me. I like to study its details, and I would never talk about SC2 if I didn't feel I had enough knowledge to do so.

Mainly though, playing a game will improve the experience, but should have only minimal affect on the storytelling aspects of a game.

Or something, don't feel like going in circles. None of this matters.

EXACTLY.

[TheEconomist]

I agree. And so basically we're all just wasting time running in circles. Pretty much what we always do here. *sigh* I miss the good ol' days when the series had so much promise.

[Nissa]

We can always live in denial like some better SC is going to come out.

[TheEconomist]

Already on to the next thing. Blizzard can do whatever it wants. It won't make a bit of difference.

[Aldrius]

Well honestly, the thing I think about is that games are about struggling. Yes you can judge a narrative from watching something, but I find it difficult to really say I've experienced a story if I haven't actually played it. Not to say you can't talk about story/narrative/characterization, but even from a plot perspective, say, playing through Frozen Throne on Hard Mode without using cheats was a very different experience from how I did it originally -- blasting through the game on normal mode using cheat codes.

Undead X03 in particular made me pull my hair out in aggravation, and that... became part of the plot for me too. It's hard to explain. For Heart I just... it reminded me of the Human Campaign in Frozen Throne. It was just TOO MANY weird mechanic maps. They tried too hard to differentiate the formula; to the point of stupidity.

For example, to coin one of my favourite Blizzard campaigns: Terror of the Tides. A WarCraft 3: Frozen Throne campaign. Every mission in this campaign not only has great story progression and import, but also has a lot of really good gameplay mechanics that fit those story elements. For example, in Night Elf mission 4 the villain you're chasing receives a huge power boost and you need to send a runner to call for reinforcements. The mission is all about escorting the runner while basically doing a holdout mission back at your base. So it's a holdout MIXED with an installation-style mission. Then the next mission is all about taking those reinforcements to meet up with the base you're guarding.

It's a unique gameplay mechanic, because you're splitting the players' focus between two different types of missions (that are fun) and it also REALLY suits the story you're trying to tell. The holdout part of the mission gives you scant resources and you're dependent on your away team's collecting of gold coins in order to repair and construct defensive structures. Emphasizing the desperation of your defense. And the urgency of the runner's flight to get help.

What the heck was the point of half the missions in Wings of Liberty? Certain ones, like the 'Walking Dead' mission really just felt like a gameplay mechanic they shoehorned a story into. Same with the train mission, and a couple of the others. Either they were REALLY functional in nature, or they were just flat out pointless in the grand scheme of things.

There were exceptions, like the mission on Korhal. Which had pretty good story/gameplay integration and was a fun mission in of itself. (Though in the end that one felt really pointless in the grand scheme of things...) But overall? I just didn't find the actual campaign that fun. And I really didn't like the final mission of Heart. It's a huge map and there's way too many big bases that you just have to absolutely slog through, and it's all one race using... pretty much nothing but the same four or so units. It just feels really monotonous to me.

I'm also not in favour of campaigns like say... Rebel Yell. Where it basically is just 9 missions of 'destroy the enemy', but not every campaign was like that. In fact I think Rebel Yell is the only one I can think of which is pretty much just that. (Though Rebel Yell makes up for it in other ways, and simplicity makes sense for the first campaign) However, I'd say each SC1 campaign after that gets more and more diversified.

Queen of Blades only has one mission that's 'destroy the enemy base'. The rest all have some sort of unique mechanic or gameplay element which make them interesting. Mission 6 was such a good mission design they just flat out reused it in Human X02 (in Frozen Throne). Same with True Colours (Zerg X05) and Undead X05. Iron Fist is kind of same-y by comparison, but even that has a few interesting missions.

Anyway, point is, while Heart of the Swarm

- - - Updated - - -

Well honestly, the thing I think about is that games are about struggling. Yes you can judge a narrative from watching something, but I find it difficult to really say I've experienced a story if I haven't actually played it. Not to say you can't talk about story/narrative/characterization, but even from a plot perspective, say, playing through Frozen Throne on Hard Mode without using cheats was a very different experience from how I did it originally -- blasting through the game on normal mode using cheat codes.

Undead X03 in particular made me pull my hair out in aggravation, and that... became part of the plot for me too. It's hard to explain. For Heart I just... it reminded me of the Human Campaign in Frozen Throne. It was just TOO MANY weird mechanic maps. They tried too hard to differentiate the formula; to the point of stupidity.

For example, to coin one of my favourite Blizzard campaigns: Terror of the Tides. A WarCraft 3: Frozen Throne campaign. Every mission in this campaign not only has great story progression and import, but also has a lot of really good gameplay mechanics that fit those story elements. For example, in Night Elf mission 4 the villain you're chasing receives a huge power boost and you need to send a runner to call for reinforcements. The mission is all about escorting the runner while basically doing a holdout mission back at your base. So it's a holdout MIXED with an installation-style mission. Then the next mission is all about taking those reinforcements to meet up with the base you're guarding.

It's a unique gameplay mechanic, because you're splitting the players' focus between two different types of missions (that are fun) and it also REALLY suits the story you're trying to tell. The holdout part of the mission gives you scant resources and you're dependent on your away team's collecting of gold coins in order to repair and construct defensive structures. Emphasizing the desperation of your defense. And the urgency of the runner's flight to get help.

What the heck was the point of half the missions in Wings of Liberty? Certain ones, like the 'Walking Dead' mission really just felt like a gameplay mechanic they shoehorned a story into. Same with the train mission, and a couple of the others. Either they were REALLY functional in nature, or they were just flat out pointless in the grand scheme of things.

There were exceptions, like the mission on Korhal. Which had pretty good story/gameplay integration and was a fun mission in of itself. (Though in the end that one felt really pointless in the grand scheme of things...) But overall? I just didn't find the actual campaign that fun. And I really didn't like the final mission of Heart. It's a huge map and there's way too many big bases that you just have to absolutely slog through, and it's all one race using... pretty much nothing but the same four or so units. It just feels really monotonous to me.

I'm also not in favour of campaigns like say... Rebel Yell. Where it basically is just 9 missions of 'destroy the enemy', but not every campaign was like that. In fact I think Rebel Yell is the only one I can think of which is pretty much just that. (Though Rebel Yell makes up for it in other ways, and simplicity makes sense for the first campaign) However, I'd say each SC1 campaign after that gets more and more diversified.

Queen of Blades only has one mission that's 'destroy the enemy base'. The rest all have some sort of unique mechanic or gameplay element which make them interesting. Mission 6 was such a good mission design they just flat out reused it in Human X02 (in Frozen Throne). Same with True Colours (Zerg X05) and Undead X05. Iron Fist is kind of same-y by comparison, but even that has a few interesting missions.

Anyway, point is, while Heart of the Swarm

[Alar]

I still play it once in a while, Single Player or Arcade. The occasional Multiplayer match against bots just for funsies.

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I still play it once in a while, Single Player or Arcade. The occasional Multiplayer match against bots just for funsies.