Writing a New Starcraft 2 storyline

[Sheliek]

That was just the first half, mind you.

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That was just the first half, mind you.

[Nissa]

I know what you mean but really, hasn't Sc2 done exactly this? Taste, story-telling and story-direction issues aside, two-thirds of the Sc2 has been taken up by what is essentially (inane and limited though it may be when focusing on specific individuals that is) Terran affairs.

One, that's not what I meant. I meant that Terran matters are kinda stupid when compared to the powerful drama going on in the Zerg and Protoss missions. What those two races are doing involves the fate of the whole universe, all while the Terrans squabble over who's the biggest boss. The Terrans need to take on a role that has more to do with the fate of the K Sector.

Two, SC2 isn't canon.

I hear what you're saying. There's enough depth in the Terrans to potentially make up a whole game all on it's own to explore their factional interactions. Pity WoL didn't even remotely touch on this in any significant manner.

While you're technically right, I can't imagine Blizzard wouldn't have messed that up somehow.

Don't tell Muspelli what to write in his own story!

I don't mind the Terran focus and the general outline of it if that's what he wants to do, I'm just getting myself twisted on the title and how that fits with the overall story. If it wasn't for the title and were I just to read the 3 campaign overview, I probably would have thought to replace the Protoss stuff with even more Terran stuff (like a whole KMC or UP campaign - woot!)!

Hey, I'm just making suggestions/talking about an SC sequel in general. Muspelli can write what he wants. I'm just going off the basis that if someone did want to write their own SC2 we might all work on it together.

Well, talk up your ideas. Even if Muspelli doesn't use them, it's at least interesting to talk about.

[Turalyon]

One, that's not what I meant. I meant that Terran matters are kinda stupid when compared to the powerful drama going on in the Zerg and Protoss missions. What those two races are doing involves the fate of the whole universe, all while the Terrans squabble over who's the biggest boss. The Terrans need to take on a role that has more to do with the fate of the K Sector.

Ah, but Sc2 has got you there as well hasn't it? Is it not the Terrans who helped reform the Saviour of the Universe (who happens to be another Terran/human when it comes down to it despite the reinfestation) which will then proceed to help stop the Hybrids and Amon from destroying the K sector? Sure, it's kinda oblique and not the real focus of what's happened so far, but Sc2 has definitely increased the role of the Terrans in the fate of the K-sector.

To me, the Terran's internal squabbles, intrigue and general down-to-earth dirtiness is what characterises the Terrans and what I like most about them. To be fair, the Terrans were originally made out to be the butt-monkeys for both the Zerg and the Protoss and were always tangential to that conflict. That the Terrans go on to suffer massive losses kind of made it difficult for me to ever consider the Terrans being any more important in the wider galactic sense.

While you're technically right, I can't imagine Blizzard wouldn't have messed that up somehow.

Well, I guess that would've depended on if they continued to keep the focus on one character's POV exclusively all the time. I'm sure if the focus was on Terrans in general, it would've come out a lot more differently than how WoL (aka "The Jim Raynor Show") did.

Well, talk up your ideas. Even if Muspelli doesn't use them, it's at least interesting to talk about.

I... I don't have any ideas about a potential sequel. I am my own worst critic - I tend to shoot down my own creative thoughts quite quickly before they get anywhere because they were ultimately staid and just "more of the same"/self-indulgent. For example, I did have an inking of an idea of the Overmind still existing and the greater part of the Swarm still being out there (due to my Zerg bias), but I didn't get much further than that due to the aforementioned reasons.

[Nissa]

Ah, but Sc2 has got you there as well hasn't it? Is it not the Terrans who helped reform the Saviour of the Universe (who happens to be another Terran/human when it comes down to it despite the reinfestation) which will then proceed to help stop the Hybrids and Amon from destroying the K sector? Sure, it's kinda oblique and not the real focus of what's happened so far, but Sc2 has definitely increased the role of the Terrans in the fate of the K-sector.

To me, the Terran's internal squabbles, intrigue and general down-to-earth dirtiness is what characterises the Terrans and what I like most about them. To be fair, the Terrans were originally made out to be the butt-monkeys for both the Zerg and the Protoss and were always tangential to that conflict. That the Terrans go on to suffer massive losses kind of made it difficult for me to ever consider the Terrans being any more important in the wider galactic sense.

Eh, any "massive losses" against the Terrans is entirely SC2 territory, and given that we're talking about our own versions of SC2, that doesn't matter. It's at least somewhat open for debate how badly Terrans suffered in SC/BW. Given that much hinges on the presence of the UED and their conquest of Korhal, we can guess that much of Brood War's casualties were of UED/Korhal origin, leaving many Morians and Umojans more or less intact, assuming the UED didn't do anything to them.

But as far as what you're saying goes, that's not really a matter of one of us being wrong and the other right. It's just what we'd prefer. Either direction would be fine, were it written well.

Well, I guess that would've depended on if they continued to keep the focus on one character's POV exclusively all the time. I'm sure if the focus was on Terrans in general, it would've come out a lot more differently than how WoL (aka "The Jim Raynor Show") did.

Yeah, that was definitely a mistake. As much as I love Raynor, I just can't see the guy in some mass rebellion situation. He's more like a William Wallace, rogue-type hero, than a Robert the Bruce, king/ruler type hero. That, and Starcraft could use some more plot relevant, interesting human characters.

I... I don't have any ideas about a potential sequel. I am my own worst critic - I tend to shoot down my own creative thoughts quite quickly before they get anywhere because they were ultimately staid and just "more of the same"/self-indulgent. For example, I did have an inking of an idea of the Overmind still existing and the greater part of the Swarm still being out there (due to my Zerg bias), but I didn't get much further than that due to the aforementioned reasons.

Lol, Zerg bias.

Nah, go ahead. Indulge yourself. It's all speculation here anyway. Though I'm not sure the Overmind coming back itself would be such a good idea. That already happened in Brood War. However, if there was a renegade cerebrate attempting to defeat Kerrigan, then hey, that could definitely work. There's no evidence she killed all of them, only that she took over the vast majority of the swarm. Also, if you could create some kind of Zerg unit that would replace the brood mother (gag), then that would be amazing.

[Turalyon]

Eh, any "massive losses" against the Terrans is entirely SC2 territory, and given that we're talking about our own versions of SC2, that doesn't matter. It's at least somewhat open for debate how badly Terrans suffered in SC/BW. Given that much hinges on the presence of the UED and their conquest of Korhal, we can guess that much of Brood War's casualties were of UED/Korhal origin, leaving many Morians and Umojans more or less intact, assuming the UED didn't do anything to them.

Oh ho, no! The massive losses I was referring to was specifically in the era of Sc1/BW. It is quite specific that 9 of the 13 Terran worlds have been laid to waste by Zerg during the events of Sc1. Whilst the Dominion arose from this and unified the remaining forces of these worlds, are they still any match to a force that wrecked them when they were at the strongest (Zerg) or a native species who have been living there for many centuries and boast more firepower than them (Protoss)? This isn't even taking into account that this Dominion than proceeded to get trashed by another Terran force which then get trashed in return. The net effect is the Terrans are much, much weaker (now in actuality) than when they started out to be (when it was just initially "potentially" the weakest of the 3 races). Sure, one can say the Protoss and Zerg went on to weaken themselves but are they as crippled as the Terrans are or to the extent that they are now equal in terms of strength? Hard to say but given the Protoss and Zerg are (in the lore) more than a match for the Terrans when they were all in their prime, it's hard to say the Terrans ever really stood a chance.

Sc2 just kind of retcons the power level and numbers of the Terrans such that the plot can have them suffer some more losses.

Yeah, that was definitely a mistake. As much as I love Raynor, I just can't see the guy in some mass rebellion situation. He's more like a William Wallace, rogue-type hero, than a Robert the Bruce, king/ruler type hero. That, and Starcraft could use some more plot relevant, interesting human characters.

That's quite interesting. If you look at the majority of what happens in WoL prosaically, Raynor actually doesn't really achieve much in terms of the "rebellion" side of things and is very much a rogue throughout despite the games preponderance to elevate every mission's success as some testament to Raynor's greatness and heroicism. It becomes a bit overboard, but surprisingly more suitable, when he goes to rescue Kerrigan since that particular feat is perhaps the one thing that is worthy of all the adulation that WoL likes to heap on Raynor. I could go on for hours about this - but I've done so previously, so I won't indulge.

Nah, go ahead. Indulge yourself. It's all speculation here anyway. Though I'm not sure the Overmind coming back itself would be such a good idea. That already happened in Brood War. However, if there was a renegade cerebrate attempting to defeat Kerrigan, then hey, that could definitely work. There's no evidence she killed all of them, only that she took over the vast majority of the swarm. Also, if you could create some kind of Zerg unit that would replace the brood mother (gag), then that would be amazing.

As I said, I usually shoot down my own ideas (just like you said, the Overmind thing has been done already) before they became anything, so that's really all I had. I'm usually more interested in the things behind the scenes of what already happened and expanding and offering explanations of things that weren't clear in the current iteration than thinking up of directions of a sequel. If I had to force a sequel idea right now, it would be a bland and somewhat cynical extension of what came before anyway. Here goes:

Kerrigan loses her mind and eventually goes out to kill everyone with the Zerg. The extended Zerg Swarm/Overmind finally arrive in the sector and proceed to attack everyone at the same time. The Overmind quickly subdues Kerrigan, then turns its attention on the Protoss and Terrans. The Hybrids then appear and seem to attack only the Zerg exclusively - they leave the Terrans and Protoss alone, allowing them to aid the Hybrids combat the entire Zerg Swarm. The Zerg are eventually rendered inert and the Hybrids then turn to the Protoss defeating them and then start processing the Zerg and Protoss to create more Hybrids. The Terrans do not aid the Protoss and are left alone by the Hybrids because they are insignificant. Being the only ones left, they soon continue doing what they do best (trying to top-dog each other). The end. See, not very good is it?

That said, I'm always open to other people's ideas and your one there is an interesting one to ponder like how did this renegade cerebrate came to be and how did it escape Kerrigan's grip over the Zerg? I take it that cerebrates can continue to exist even without an Overmind? It sounds a bit like FT's proposed idea for remaking BW, where he actually has Kerrigan and Daggoth pitted against each other for control over the Zerg.

[Nissa]

[QUOTE=Turalyon;196482]That's quite interesting. If you look at the majority of what happens in WoL prosaically, Raynor actually doesn't really achieve much in terms of the "rebellion" side of things and is very much a rogue throughout despite the games preponderance to elevate every mission's success as some testament to Raynor's greatness and heroicism. It becomes a bit overboard, but surprisingly more suitable, when he goes to rescue Kerrigan since that particular feat is perhaps the one thing that is worthy of all the adulation that WoL likes to heap on Raynor. I could go on for hours about this - but I've done so previously, so I won't indulge.[/quote

Yeah, any time they try to force Raynor into a revolutionary role, I just cringe. Raynor isn't idealistic enough to be a revolutionary. He just does what he thinks is right.

As I said, I usually shoot down my own ideas (just like you said, the Overmind thing has been done already) before they became anything, so that's really all I had. I'm usually more interested in the things behind the scenes of what already happened and expanding and offering explanations of things that weren't clear in the current iteration than thinking up of directions of a sequel. If I had to force a sequel idea right now, it would be a bland and somewhat cynical extension of what came before anyway. Here goes:

Kerrigan loses her mind and eventually goes out to kill everyone with the Zerg. The extended Zerg Swarm/Overmind finally arrive in the sector and proceed to attack everyone at the same time. The Overmind quickly subdues Kerrigan, then turns its attention on the Protoss and Terrans. The Hybrids then appear and seem to attack only the Zerg exclusively - they leave the Terrans and Protoss alone, allowing them to aid the Hybrids combat the entire Zerg Swarm. The Zerg are eventually rendered inert and the Hybrids then turn to the Protoss defeating them and then start processing the Zerg and Protoss to create more Hybrids. The Terrans do not aid the Protoss and are left alone by the Hybrids because they are insignificant. Being the only ones left, they soon continue doing what they do best (trying to top-dog each other). The end. See, not very good is it?

That said, I'm always open to other people's ideas and your one there is an interesting one to ponder like how did this renegade cerebrate came to be and how did it escape Kerrigan's grip over the Zerg? I take it that cerebrates can continue to exist even without an Overmind? It sounds a bit like FT's proposed idea for remaking BW, where he actually has Kerrigan and Daggoth pitted against each other for control over the Zerg.

Well, I just want some cerebrate characters. They were interesting in that they were very efficient about being evil, and the idea of their relentless conquest versus Kerrigan's emotionally driven revenge-fest was a conflict that was never used enough.

My head-canon about the hybrids was that they were intent on improving the universe, and that the Protoss were failures for not having followed the Dae'Uhl to the letter, as "superior species must care for the inferior." They even have the power to turn dead, rocky planets into places teeming with life. So the hybrids intend to create a "paradise" where all live in peace and the dissidents are dead.

[Turalyon]

Well, I just want some cerebrate characters. They were interesting in that they were very efficient about being evil, and the idea of their relentless conquest versus Kerrigan's emotionally driven revenge-fest was a conflict that was never used enough.

The timing around BW would have been a good opportunity explore this had they not just rushed into just having the remaining cerebrates merge into a new Overmind behind-the-scenes from the get-go. Now that Kerrigan has supposedly killed every cerebrate, it's going to be difficult to re-introduce a long-lost cerebrate in a sequel without resorting to more plot-devicey shenanigans.

My head-canon about the hybrids was that they were intent on improving the universe, and that the Protoss were failures for not having followed the Dae'Uhl to the letter, as "superior species must care for the inferior." They even have the power to turn dead, rocky planets into places teeming with life. So the hybrids intend to create a "paradise" where all live in peace and the dissidents are dead.

That's an interesting take on the hybrids - in that they're actually (well really, what they think is) a force of utilitarian good. They'd still retain their ominous nature as BW showed, but ominous only to the Protoss and Zerg in actuality.

I would understand the Zerg not wanting to be part of this because they don't want to care for the "inferior" but to destroy it and that being "superior" requires constant self-improvement but that they could be made agreeable since they would relish having help joining with/assimilating the Protoss and have hope of overpowering /overriding the Hybrids plans down the track. I would also understand the Protoss not wanting to take part since it would mean great change and destruction of their specific way of life (and bring up old hurts of being "failures" that led to the Aeon of Strife again), not the least it would also mean having to merge with their most hated enemy, the Zerg. However, this theory wouldn't have much to do with the Terrans though since the Hybrids would consider them inferior and worthy of protection and only care to deal with the Protoss and the Zerg (the "mistakes"). Hm, thinking about it more, this theory kinda fits well in my on-the-spot sequel idea outline. Nice.

I can't imagine this being Amon's actual motivation given the straight-forward villainy that's on display. It could work but given the way the things have been written so far, it'd definitely feel nonsensical and full of tonal whiplash if it was the case though.

[Nissa]

The timing around BW would have been a good opportunity explore this had they not just rushed into just having the remaining cerebrates merge into a new Overmind behind-the-scenes from the get-go. Now that Kerrigan has supposedly killed every cerebrate, it's going to be difficult to re-introduce a long-lost cerebrate in a sequel without resorting to more plot-devicey shenanigans.

Not really. Have one have fled in the past, or have surrendered to Kerrigan at some point with the intention of taking over when the time is right. Not that hard.

That's an interesting take on the hybrids - in that they're actually (well really, what they think is) a force of utilitarian good. They'd still retain their ominous nature as BW showed, but ominous only to the Protoss and Zerg in actuality.

I would understand the Zerg not wanting to be part of this because they don't want to care for the "inferior" but to destroy it and that being "superior" requires constant self-improvement but that they could be made agreeable since they would relish having help joining with/assimilating the Protoss and have hope of overpowering /overriding the Hybrids plans down the track. I would also understand the Protoss not wanting to take part since it would mean great change and destruction of their specific way of life (and bring up old hurts of being "failures" that led to the Aeon of Strife again), not the least it would also mean having to merge with their most hated enemy, the Zerg. However, this theory wouldn't have much to do with the Terrans though since the Hybrids would consider them inferior and worthy of protection and only care to deal with the Protoss and the Zerg (the "mistakes"). Hm, thinking about it more, this theory kinda fits well in my on-the-spot sequel idea outline. Nice.

I can't imagine this being Amon's actual motivation given the straight-forward villainy that's on display. It could work but given the way the things have been written so far, it'd definitely feel nonsensical and full of tonal whiplash if it was the case though.

Well, the humans to my version of the hybrids are like little babies, barely better than animals and not nearly as cute. The Enbrechi (as I will now refer to my version of the hybrids) patronize them entirely, saying they're only good for general labor and raising animals, but that since they are life they "deserve to be treasured as any creature."

Yea, totally incompatible with SC2. All I wanted in a hybrid was anything that's just not another big, bad race that's come in to destroy everybody. Heck, I'd be content if they were simply the footsoldiers of an evil Xel'Naga.

[Turalyon]

Not really. Have one have fled in the past, or have surrendered to Kerrigan at some point with the intention of taking over when the time is right. Not that hard.

Sure, not hard but a lot more gimmicky and far too convenient. Kinda like the reasons for how the Psi-Disruptor, Neo-Overmind, Temples with world-wide Zerg wiping abilities and artifacts are willed into existence for the express purpose of moving a plot forward. It's too late to re-introduce cerebrates in a sequel without it being hackneyed - much like me trying to re-introduce the Overmind (that never actually died) again in my quick sequel idea.

Besides, how is one rogue cerebrate (who needs the Overmind to function properly and can only control a single brood) supposed to take on Kerrigan (who can function independently and can control multiple broods) without some sort of magical help of a plot device? It'll be a quick fight.

[Nissa]

Sure, not hard but a lot more gimmicky and far too convenient. Kinda like the reasons for how the Psi-Disruptor, Neo-Overmind, Temples with world-wide Zerg wiping abilities and artifacts are willed into existence for the express purpose of moving a plot forward. It's too late to re-introduce cerebrates in a sequel without it being hackneyed - much like me trying to re-introduce the Overmind (that never actually died) again in my quick sequel idea.

Besides, how is one rogue cerebrate (who needs the Overmind to function properly and can only control a single brood) supposed to take on Kerrigan (who can function independently and can control multiple broods) without some sort of magical help of a plot device? It'll be a quick fight.

Well, if by re-introduce, you mean suddenly appear after however many years. Assuming that a game was set directly after Brood War, it's entirely possible that Kerrigan was too busy dealing with everything else in BW to handle all the cerebrates.

Besides, by cerebrate, I also mean cerebrate analogue. Like, Kerrigan breeds some sort of creature that functions like a cerebrate, but serves as the basis of her extending her control over the swarm, just like how the Overmind used cerebrates. Also, there's no particular need for any of them to rebel, so long as they exist and are interesting characters.

Actually, this relates back to the weakening of Arcturus Mengsk and other characters. See, in SC/BW the tension was really high at all times because there was always a threat on top of a threat. Mengsk is bad, but he's as bad as Kerrigan. Kerrigan's bad, but she's not as bad as the hybrids. It's no wonder characters like Zeratul and Raynor are totally depressed. There's just no end to the evil around them.

SC2, however, sees the weakening of all evil. The Overmind wasn't a single-minded conquerer, but a pawn of generic bad guy voice. Mengsk isn't an evil mofo who says the creepiest things, he's lame propaganda spouting weaking dude. Duran isn't an awesome black guy on the cusp of some great master plan, but a generic white guy who submits to people beneath him again for no reason, and may in fact be dead now.

Basically, all I'm saying is that I want a really scary bad guy in the plot again. Someone who isn't typical, but is entirely and intelligently focused on his evil plans.