LotV Trailer!

[Turalyon]

I know, right? I've always been a fan of the twisted prophecy trope. Not the one where, "Hey, we completely misinterpreted it! Shit's all fucked up now and shit!" Rather, something akin to the "Planted Prophecy", a la the Bene Gesserit's in Dune; rumors and legends artificially created in a culture so they may be taken advantage of at a later date. The avatar of Tassadar was a plant created by Amon. (I also wondered if a seed of Amon was planted in the Overmind. The Overmind intentionally committed suicide on Aiur, but in the process released Amon's essence into its psionic matrix.)

Well, the difference between those two types of prophecy is that the Bene Gesserit one is clearly artificial from the get-go and the audience is let in on it's artificial origins. That "Tassadar plant" thing is backwards in comparison and feels very much like a late ass-pull (or more precisely, a double reverse ass-pull given the revelation that Tassadar is still alive in ghost form is an ass-pull in itself) because one has to be inclined to speculate without basis that it could have been a "planted prophecy" to begin with. There's nothing to indicate that the Tassadar ghost is actually fake whatsoever apart from someone hating the concept and wishing it was a fake.

[Nissa]

I just wish that they would stick to the real definition of a prophecy: God (or goddess, gods, spirits) talking to a person about the future. An old picture on a hunk of stone from who knows how long ago is not prophecy. It's cheap writing.

Though I will back Khas up on the twisted prophecy thing. That hasn't been done a lot recently -- the only example I can think of is from an episode of DS9 -- and when written right can be pretty hilarious.

[protoswarrior]

An old picture on a hunk of stone from who knows how long ago is not prophecy. It's cheap writing.

Care to elaborate on that's "cheap", please? I am not sure I follow.

[Nissa]

Cheap writing as in, everything that happens is some part of a "prophecy" without further explanation or questioning of its accuracy. Like a prophecy is a band-aid for a plot issue in fantasies.

[DonnyZeDoof]

I just wish that they would stick to the real definition of a prophecy: God (or goddess, gods, spirits) talking to a person about the future. An old picture on a hunk of stone from who knows how long ago is not prophecy.

TBH gods, goddesses and spirits don't fit into the StarCraft universe.

I still think a prophecy can work as long as there's a sci-fi element to it e.g. a time traveller created the prophecy based on what he/she had seen in the future.

- - - Updated - - -

I just wish that they would stick to the real definition of a prophecy: God (or goddess, gods, spirits) talking to a person about the future. An old picture on a hunk of stone from who knows how long ago is not prophecy.

TBH gods, goddesses and spirits don't fit into the StarCraft universe.

I still think a prophecy can work as long as there's a sci-fi element to it e.g. a time traveller created the prophecy based on what he/she had seen in the future.

[Nissa]

TBH gods, goddesses and spirits don't fit into the StarCraft universe.

I still think a prophecy can work as long as there's a sci-fi element to it e.g. a time traveller created the prophecy based on what he/she had seen in the future.

In one sense, you're right, except that the Protoss have gods, and it felt like in SC/BW that these gods weren't simply the Xel'Naga, though they could also be written in a way that implies godhood. No, gods are possible to pull off in the Starcraft universe, but given the tone of the series, it could easily feel off, especially given Blizzard's lack of good writers.

But no. NO. This is exactly what I'm talking about -- a man from the future is not a prophet. He's a dude from the future. Prophecy automatically implies a spiritual element, so unless God or Protoss gods sent him back in time, no. Actually, now that I think about it, gods sending a guy into the past might actually be fun, except that the SC universe is now so convoluted that they shouldn't even think about adding time travel to it.

[Turalyon]

I just wish that they would stick to the real definition of a prophecy: God (or goddess, gods, spirits) talking to a person about the future. An old picture on a hunk of stone from who knows how long ago is not prophecy. It's cheap writing.

I would prefer neither. Real prophecies (in fiction) often incite Deux ex machina as something to be expected whilst stories built around false prophecies (or prophecies that a proven to be false) often seem like a waste of time because the whole crux of the story is undermined for the sake of plot twist.

Though I will back Khas up on the twisted prophecy thing. That hasn't been done a lot recently -- the only example I can think of is from an episode of DS9 -- and when written right can be pretty hilarious.

It hasn't been done a lot because it's an obvious gimmick/plot mechanic that people can see a mile away and sigh at it's binary nature (the predictability of it either coming true or not). The BG prophecy in Dune works in the sense that although it's origins were artificial, it is abused to help Paul rise to power. Course, when Paul starts getting actual future sight/prophecy things get a bit more complicated but not even he can tell whether his visions (at the time) are truly prophetic or not. Good ways to implement prophecy in fiction is to not turn it into a plot device from which things turn around it but to keep it as vague as possible. That way it can be applicable to any situation such that the plot does not hinge on the prophecy itself but how people act/react based on the information in the prophecy.

The reimagined Battlestar Galactica had elements of twisted prophecy but that was (taste aside) acceptable because the setup allowed for it to occur. Like with DS9, given all the religious subtext (which coincidentally, Ron Moore had a hand in both these sci-fi shows) what with the wormhole aliens being seen as gods, there was room for prophecy. As to it being "hilarious" - I'm not sure whether that is something to strive for in a setting such as Starcraft.

But no. NO. This is exactly what I'm talking about -- a man from the future is not a prophet. He's a dude from the future. Prophecy automatically implies a spiritual element, so unless God or Protoss gods sent him back in time, no.

Sure but the technicality of it not having religious subtext is usually not the actual problem with using the "prophecy plot device". Besides, that man of the future can still be a prophet if he doesn't know how he was able to travel back and thinks it's divine intervention or he can be seen as a prophet by others if he pretends to be one. The thing with those two alternatives is that the focus is not on the actual prophecy but the man itself and how others would potentially interact with him.

except that the SC universe is now so convoluted that they shouldn't even think about adding time travel to it.

I think the opposite. Starcraft is so nonsensical and without limits now, that time travel (or any other shenanigans) seems like a perfect fit for that universe. There have been many a time I've joked (or not....) that the Xel'Naga are actually advance, way-in-the-future humans and that Raynor maybe an amnesiac member of them.

[DonnyZeDoof]

I forgot that StarCraft is supposed to be sci-fi.

It's gotten too much WoW magic inserted in it.

- - - Updated - - -

I forgot that StarCraft is supposed to be sci-fi.

It's gotten too much WoW magic inserted in it.

[GnaReffotsirk]

Prophets are ordinary people with something only what is considered divine to possess. Their purpose is mostly to reveal information to other beings. It doesn't have to be religious. But it certainly is used in that context where a divine being reveals information, that can never be attained without a divine intervention. In a sort, prophecies are divine intervention at work.

Information from the future from an ordinary being is not seen as prophecies in Marvel comics, no matter how cosmic the guy giving it is. It can only become prophetic if a religious zealot takes it as such, and act in accordance with or against it with a religious disposition.

The prophecy in sc2 is however something like that of the mayan prophecies. They had this beliefs that drove their civ in the past, and we only now figure it out.

The funny thing here is that Xel'Naga were not supposed to be divine. They were not able to predict that the Zerg would come against them even, nor how the protoss turned out to be. They were shown to be fallible beings wielding such great power that they can shape species to their designs, which is a terrible thing.

This flaw of theirs began the SC universe. So how then is it that they now have these "documentation" written in stone about what will happen? Did they plan all of these, including their demise?

I don't think so.

- - - Updated - - -

Prophets are ordinary people with something only what is considered divine to possess. Their purpose is mostly to reveal information to other beings. It doesn't have to be religious. But it certainly is used in that context where a divine being reveals information, that can never be attained without a divine intervention. In a sort, prophecies are divine intervention at work.

Information from the future from an ordinary being is not seen as prophecies in Marvel comics, no matter how cosmic the guy giving it is. It can only become prophetic if a religious zealot takes it as such, and act in accordance with or against it with a religious disposition.

The prophecy in sc2 is however something like that of the mayan prophecies. They had this beliefs that drove their civ in the past, and we only now figure it out.

The funny thing here is that Xel'Naga were not supposed to be divine. They were not able to predict that the Zerg would come against them even, nor how the protoss turned out to be. They were shown to be fallible beings wielding such great power that they can shape species to their designs, which is a terrible thing.

This flaw of theirs began the SC universe. So how then is it that they now have these "documentation" written in stone about what will happen? Did they plan all of these, including their demise?

I don't think so.

[Nissa]

I agree with you, Donny, except that prophecy by its nature comes from the spirit realm, not from the person who is a "prophet". Though that may have been part of your point, I suppose.

Oh, and if you click "Go Advanced" and then post from there, it won't double up your post.

By the by, y'all, when I'm talking about prophecy, I'm just talking about how people misuse it in writing these days. I'm not arguing that it should be a plot point in Starcraft. It just gets on my nerves when "prophecy" becomes the excuse for things to happen on screen.