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[protoswarrior]

I understand that, but to me it just seemed everything was too fantasy in all this. From SC1 alone, it seemed the Xel'Naga's goal was much more scientific and everything, which fits the theme of science fiction, even when the Overmind took it to the next level.

That's both true and not so true, especially when looking at it from the perspective of the Twilight Wanderer. Science fiction and fantasy started mixing well before SC2.

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I understand that, but to me it just seemed everything was too fantasy in all this. From SC1 alone, it seemed the Xel'Naga's goal was much more scientific and everything, which fits the theme of science fiction, even when the Overmind took it to the next level.

That's both true and not so true, especially when looking at it from the perspective of the Twilight Wanderer. Science fiction and fantasy started mixing well before SC2.

[ragnarok]

That's both true and not so true, especially when looking at it from the perspective of the Twilight Wanderer. Science fiction and fantasy started mixing well before SC2.

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That's both true and not so true, especially when looking at it from the perspective of the Twilight Wanderer. Science fiction and fantasy started mixing well before SC2.

Maybe not, but SC2 seemed to magnify it, hence its flaws. I didn't hate the HotS story as much. But after listening to the critics like Gradius on battlenet for almost 2 years, I've grown more critical on it.

[protoswarrior]

Maybe not, but SC2 seemed to magnify it, hence its flaws. I didn't hate the HotS story as much. But after listening to the critics like Gradius on battlenet for almost 2 years, I've grown more critical on it.

No offense to Gradius, because we are long standing friends and I respect him, but this time, his critique was not spot on, and I have yet to find the time to take that editorial apart.

Sc2's flaws are not related to this mixing of scifi and fantasy because, in all honesty, Blizzard did a great job with it. Many good stories mix the 2 in clever ways, and Sc2 has done so. Hell even SC1 did it. The flaw has been in the misconception that the mixing itself is wrong for Starcraft, and that's a core concept in Gradius' review.
I understand why you got influenced, but the fact remains : his criticism is flawed.

I should really post a good breakdown of that review soon...

<3 Gradius

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Maybe not, but SC2 seemed to magnify it, hence its flaws. I didn't hate the HotS story as much. But after listening to the critics like Gradius on battlenet for almost 2 years, I've grown more critical on it.

No offense to Gradius, because we are long standing friends and I respect him, but this time, his critique was not spot on, and I have yet to find the time to take that editorial apart.

Sc2's flaws are not related to this mixing of scifi and fantasy because, in all honesty, Blizzard did a great job with it. Many good stories mix the 2 in clever ways, and Sc2 has done so. Hell even SC1 did it. The flaw has been in the misconception that the mixing itself is wrong for Starcraft, and that's a core concept in Gradius' review.
I understand why you got influenced, but the fact remains : his criticism is flawed.

I should really post a good breakdown of that review soon...

<3 Gradius

[ragnarok]

No offense to Gradius, because we are long standing friends and I respect him, but this time, his critique was not spot on, and I have yet to find the time to take that editorial apart.

Sc2's flaws are not related to this mixing of scifi and fantasy because, in all honesty, Blizzard did a great job with it. Many good stories mix the 2 in clever ways, and Sc2 has done so. Hell even SC1 did it. The flaw has been in the misconception that the mixing itself is wrong for Starcraft, and that's a core concept in Gradius' review.
I understand why you got influenced, but the fact remains : his criticism is flawed.

I should really post a good breakdown of that review soon...

<3 Gradius

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No offense to Gradius, because we are long standing friends and I respect him, but this time, his critique was not spot on, and I have yet to find the time to take that editorial apart.

Sc2's flaws are not related to this mixing of scifi and fantasy because, in all honesty, Blizzard did a great job with it. Many good stories mix the 2 in clever ways, and Sc2 has done so. Hell even SC1 did it. The flaw has been in the misconception that the mixing itself is wrong for Starcraft, and that's a core concept in Gradius' review.
I understand why you got influenced, but the fact remains : his criticism is flawed.

I should really post a good breakdown of that review soon...

<3 Gradius

I spoke to the guy on skype several times. He's not a bad person, and while he and I don't see eye to eye on quite some things, he's certainly better than a lot of the other critics on battlenet. He at least was willing to see what I was getting at, as well as respecting my opinion for trying to see the other way, which is more than what I can say for others there.

And since you said you wanted to post a good breakdown of that review, I recommend you do it.

I want to see it, so I can see where YOU'RE getting at.

[protoswarrior]

Sounds like a plan!



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Sounds like a plan!

[ragnarok]

Sounds like a plan!



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Sounds like a plan!

One of the main things I was aggravated on was the Media Blitz mission was useless in HotS due to Mengsk's announcement. This is why (since I've read so many WWII books) I never saw Mengsk's Dominion as anything more than a sci-fi version of the Nazi regime.

[protoswarrior]

One of the main things I was aggravated on was the Media Blitz mission was useless in HotS due to Mengsk's announcement.

I am with you on that.

But, again, this was the whole thing about Mengsk. He never built the Dominion for the Terran people. He built it for himself, not even for Valerian. Arcturus' life is tragedy, but he is also a bloody madman. Making his regime akin to Nazi rule is not far from the truth at all. The Media Blitz mission's effect in HOTS is VERY apparent. It made Raynor's death announcement a triumph for the Dominion in the UNN media - the propaganda station of Arcturus. This was simultaneously a lynchpin for the storyline to drive the revenge story forward and keep the player guessing, because there was no way to know until Kerrigan rescues Jim from the prison. It also is the lynchpin for the player to hate Mengsk even more, based on all the past history and the "good times" with Jim on the Hyperion.

This is why this was an important plot device to steer the story in the right direction and implicate the player in Kerrigan's hate and feelings for revenge. Zeratul's involvement brings in more excitement and intrigue because he is such a lovable character from Broodwar and WOL.

I can see WHY they did what they did with the Media Blitz "quasi-retcon", but it does not mean I like it. That said, I still was able to swallow that portion of the story since it acted as a more direct catalyst for more important events to come.

[ragnarok]

I mean yes the people tend to believe what the government tells them, but ultimately you'd think they'd eventually see that the numbers are not adding up.

Raynor's "death" was accepted by the Core worlds because unlike the fringe worlds, the Raiders never did rebellions on those, so the people there only know of Raynor from what Mengsk claimed.

In some ways this is why I had almost wished the Korhal invasion went at a SLOWER pace. That way, the people of Korhal would ultimately turn against Mengsk. No matter how good he is at manipulating others, propaganda cannot counter what people are seeing with their own eyes.

[protoswarrior]

I mean yes the people tend to believe what the government tells them, but ultimately you'd think they'd eventually see that the numbers are not adding up.

Raynor's "death" was accepted by the Core worlds because unlike the fringe worlds, the Raiders never did rebellions on those, so the people there only know of Raynor from what Mengsk claimed.

In some ways this is why I had almost wished the Korhal invasion went at a SLOWER pace. That way, the people of Korhal would ultimately turn against Mengsk. No matter how good he is at manipulating others, propaganda cannot counter what people are seeing with their own eyes.

Ultimately, I don't think that is a realistic goal for a relatively small infiltration group such as Raynor's Raiders. Raynor played the card of Valerian (or the other way round) to get his force to be strong enough to help "free" Kerrigan. If Raynor got involved in prolonged siege warfare against the core worlds of the Dominion, he'd have lost a long time ago. Being a fast in and out unit to cripple the Dominion was the ONLY way to go about it.

[ragnarok]

Ultimately, I don't think that is a realistic goal for a relatively small infiltration group such as Raynor's Raiders. Raynor played the card of Valerian (or the other way round) to get his force to be strong enough to help "free" Kerrigan. If Raynor got involved in prolonged siege warfare against the core worlds of the Dominion, he'd have lost a long time ago. Being a fast in and out unit to cripple the Dominion was the ONLY way to go about it.

Something like that. I personally never felt the Dominion military learns anything. Warfield accused Raynor of being a coward and hiding behind a rock during the whole Zerg invasion in WoL. He completely forgot Raynor already beat him on Korhal in the Media Blitz mission.

Now, Warfield could argue that Raynor cheated because he had the Odin, which was a Dominion weapon and therefore his "victory" doesn't really count. However, Raynor also rescued him from the Zerg on Char. Right before the last WoL mission, it seemed Warfield respected Raynor for his actions and praised what he had done.

Yet in HotS it showed Warfield learned nothing for his foolish arrogance in thinking he could beat Kerrigan without the artifact and everything.