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Thread: LotV Trailer!

  1. #81
    DonnyZeDoof's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I agree with you, Donny, except that prophecy by its nature comes from the spirit realm, not from the person who is a "prophet". Though that may have been part of your point, I suppose.

    Oh, and if you click "Go Advanced" and then post from there, it won't double up your post.

    By the by, y'all, when I'm talking about prophecy, I'm just talking about how people misuse it in writing these days. I'm not arguing that it should be a plot point in Starcraft. It just gets on my nerves when "prophecy" becomes the excuse for things to happen on screen.
    Nowadays Metzen has the habit of putting a prophecy in everything. Even Diablo 3 has got some prophecy.

  2. #82

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Well, the concept of prophecy isn't too far fetched in a fantasy setting in Diablo. Prophecy was mentioned in even Diablo 1 and 2, but it never served as the lynchpin as it did in D3.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  3. #83

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Telenil View Post
    Pretty much. Stukov had his cold body thrown into space over a planet covered in lava, and still showed up in Starcraft 2. The same happened with a large number of Warcraft characters. So Narud and/or Duran? It's almost too easy to bring them back.
    This is the same for Stukov. Remember, he technically died in Brood War, but Kaloth revived him. Therefore, there's no such thing as a person who can REMAIN dead forever.

  4. #84

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Cheap writing as in, everything that happens is some part of a "prophecy" without further explanation or questioning of its accuracy. Like a prophecy is a band-aid for a plot issue in fantasies.
    This "prophecy" was even mentioned in the Overmind's musings in SC1. No one had a problem with it back then because it was NAMED something else. Being all hot and bothered about "prophecy" as a term, now, is ridiculous. It is just a story tool to indicate that these are events that have been foretold by the Xel'Naga. Protoss are avidly religious, which makes the use of the term "prophecy" a very tiny leap of faith.

    You guys are just blowing a small, insignificant part of SC2 out of proportion.

  5. #85

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    This "prophecy" was even mentioned in the Overmind's musings in SC1. No one had a problem with it back then because it was NAMED something else. Being all hot and bothered about "prophecy" as a term, now, is ridiculous. It is just a story tool to indicate that these are events that have been foretold by the Xel'Naga. Protoss are avidly religious, which makes the use of the term "prophecy" a very tiny leap of faith.

    You guys are just blowing a small, insignificant part of SC2 out of proportion.
    Um, it wasn't a prophecy. It was what the Overmind wanted, retcons aside. Besides, just because it's an old message from the past doesn't make it a prophecy, and that's my point of contention, and not one I have with only Starcraft. It's like, "there's a flaw in my story! I know, I'll put a prophecy on it!" a la the Star Wars prequels and that lame Ninja Turtle movie that came out some time ago.

    Thing is, without this "prophecy" (that appeared from nowhere and had no reference in SC1, then Kerrigan would have no motivation at all for SC2. Nothing would have changed to drive her forward. So it's a cheap way to make sure a powerful character isn't on the sidelines, rather than thinking of a natural story arc that would get her involved in things.

    Besides, it's especially not a prophecy if the Xel'Naga determined it would happen. Besides, how prophetic can they be? They didn't predict the Zerg would eat their faces.

  6. #86

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    This "prophecy" was even mentioned in the Overmind's musings in SC1.
    You're putting the "cart before the horse" here. The Overmind does not speak of any "prophecy" until it is revealed that it perhaps was (and even that in itself is contentious) much later. Retcons are like that, they are supposed to insinuate themselves such that they seem indispensable and that it was "like that all along" when they really weren't.

    Before we even knew the Overmind's actions are retconned into being part of some prophecy in Sc2, all we really had was the Overmind speaking of completing the Xel'Nagan Grand Experiment. Inferring from this lone fact and the knowledge that was given in the manual at the time, the Xel'Nagan Grand Experiment was to create a perfect being. The Overmind twisted that objective into it's own by thinking that the perfect being would be a Zerg assimilated Protoss.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  7. #87

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon
    You're putting the "cart before the horse" here. The Overmind does not speak of any "prophecy" until it is revealed that it perhaps was (and even that in itself is contentious) much later. Retcons are like that, they are supposed to insinuate themselves such that they seem indispensable and that it was "like that all along" when they really weren't.
    What are you talking about?

    The Overmind revealing its "prophecy" later in Broodwar does not change the fact that it used the exact same story tool in Broodwar, and no one gave a damn. Suddenly, in SC2, because a fanatically religious race like the Protoss come up with this prophecy in the story-telling, spear-headed by Zeratul, and it is considered "cheap"? Please. That's complete nonsense. As I said, you're making a small thing into a big deal for nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon
    Before we even knew the Overmind's actions are retconned into being part of some prophecy in Sc2,
    You're missing the point: The Overmind was not retconned when it was prophesying about assimilating the Protoss in Broodwar. What happened in SC2 was 100% acceptable, and was not an actual retcon. Just a perception by you. The fact remains that prophesying started with the Overmind before SC2 was ever in the picture, and apparently no one was complaining about it then.

    There is no reason to call things being "retconned" now when the SC2 story is using the same story-telling tool as SC1 did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon
    all we really had was the Overmind speaking of completing the Xel'Nagan Grand Experiment. Inferring from this lone fact and the knowledge that was given in the manual at the time, the Xel'Nagan Grand Experiment was to create a perfect being. The Overmind twisted that objective into it's own by thinking that the perfect being would be a Zerg assimilated Protoss.
    This was "foretold" by the Overmind, and it used predictive results as part of its "plan" to complete the goal of the Xel'Naga, in its perception in the story. Nothing different at all from an actual prophecy. As I said before, it was just named differently, but was exactly the same thing. Just because Zeratul used the term "prophecy", you seem to be having a problem with that.

    It is not.

  8. #88

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    This was "foretold" by the Overmind, and it used predictive results as part of its "plan" to complete the goal of the Xel'Naga, in its perception in the story. Nothing different at all from an actual prophecy. As I said before, it was just named differently, but was exactly the same thing. Just because Zeratul used the term "prophecy", you seem to be having a problem with that.

    It is not.
    Yes but the goal of the Xel'Naga wasn't really explained. It wasn't until the DT Saga Twilight that Zamara explained their goal was to unite the Zerg and Protoss together to form a new generation of Xel'Naga. It had nothing to do with the swarm trying to assimilate the Protoss in the hopes to achieve perfection or anything like that.

    Besides if we go by what was written in SC1 it'd only make it seem that all the Xel'Naga were evil, and the Overmind merely took their intentions to the extreme or something like that.

  9. #89

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Yes but the goal of the Xel'Naga wasn't really explained. It wasn't until the DT Saga Twilight that Zamara explained their goal was to unite the Zerg and Protoss together to form a new generation of Xel'Naga. It had nothing to do with the swarm trying to assimilate the Protoss in the hopes to achieve perfection or anything like that.

    Besides if we go by what was written in SC1 it'd only make it seem that all the Xel'Naga were evil, and the Overmind merely took their intentions to the extreme or something like that.
    That's the thing: we did not need the Xel'Naga's goal to be explained to justify the fact that using a prophetic approach is not wrong, and was done before without rebuke. There is this stigma of perception that is being perpetrated here which I am 100% against.

  10. #90

    Default Re: LotV Trailer!

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    That's the thing: we did not need the Xel'Naga's goal to be explained to justify the fact that using a prophetic approach is not wrong, and was done before without rebuke. There is this stigma of perception that is being perpetrated here which I am 100% against.
    I understand that, but to me it just seemed everything was too fantasy in all this. From SC1 alone, it seemed the Xel'Naga's goal was much more scientific and everything, which fits the theme of science fiction, even when the Overmind took it to the next level.

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