New Zerg data: Biology

[Turalyon]

Yes, but in Brood War, the Zerg 'factions' are a direct consequence of the Swarm's failure on Aiur. They are broken.

What's so necessarily bad about it? That there was a perfect story opportunity for the Zerg to redefine themselves without an Overmind. This could've easily been the concept brief of Primal Zerg instead of the lame one we got in HotS.

Well, in the manual the Zerg's 'purity of essence' is directly contrasted to the Protoss' 'failure of essence', which was explicitly the beginnings of the Aeon of Strife and the severing of their primal link. If internal strife and division are a 'failure of essence' and the Zerg were created to be a direct response to that failure, then the hivemind is definitely the purity of essence.

I get that but that just means it's a quality that can be (and has been) lost through the death of the Overmind. I don't think the Protoss can lose their quality (purity of form) in such a way, so why would the Xel'Naga make something that can be potentially lost but is yet supposed to be greater than their first creation? It's partly the reason why, in the past, I thought the Overmind wasn't truly dead (not in the sense of resurrection mind you) or that it could ever be killed. If it could be removed, the Zerg are forever neutered unless we have a concept of primal Zerg (of which, I would prefer to define simply as "Zerg coping/existing well without Overmind guidance") to keep them relevant/viable.

Which would make sense, as the ORIGINAL Zerg started off as nothing more than insect parasites. Hence it's likely that even for the primal Zerg, the large animal forms are not the real primal Zerg at all, and the real primal Zerg are just the parasites living inside those hosts.

But the first Zerg parasites actually integrated into their hosts, fused into and steered the evolution of it's host species through generations. There would not be any original Zerg parasites left because they would have mutated with their hosts into something different a long time ago or died off since they needed to hijack hosts in order to avoid being picked off by predators.

[ragnarok]

What Zerg are has always been the Xel'Naga engineered species. This is a fictitious story we're talking about, you know? We'd known what the Zerg were for, what, fourteen years already?

But if you want to be stubborn about it, it's the Xel'Naga who named the Zerg. Defining the Zerg by what they were before they became the Zerg would be as accurate as defining Terrans as single-celled organisms, because they evolved from such.

Ironically, naming them was among the VERY few things the Xel'Naga did.

If you remember in the SC1 manual, the Xel'Naga for the most part just sat back and let the Zerg do all the evolutions themselves.

[FanaticTemplar]

What's so necessarily bad about it? That there was a perfect story opportunity for the Zerg to redefine themselves without an Overmind. This could've easily been the concept brief of Primal Zerg instead of the lame one we got in HotS.

It's not bad, it's actually quite good. It means that the events of StarCraft had consequences on the Zerg and changed their very existence. If you mean that the Primal Zerg could have developed as smarter Zerg seeking independence after being released from the Overmind's Hivemind (much like Kerrigan herself), then yes, that could have been a reasonable concept for the Primal Zerg.

I get that but that just means it's a quality that can be (and has been) lost through the death of the Overmind. I don't think the Protoss can lose their quality (purity of form) in such a way, so why would the Xel'Naga make something that can be potentially lost but is yet supposed to be greater than their first creation? It's partly the reason why, in the past, I thought the Overmind wasn't truly dead (not in the sense of resurrection mind you) or that it could ever be killed. If it could be removed, the Zerg are forever neutered unless we have a concept of primal Zerg (of which, I would prefer to define simply as "Zerg coping/existing well without Overmind guidance") to keep them relevant/viable.

Sure, but such Zerg would no longer have purity of essence. The 'purities' aren't inborn, they are the result of the Xel'Naga's engineering. The same way that a Protoss who is somehow crippled no longer has purity of form.

[Gradius]

Que no los dos?

So it's impossible for you to believe that there might be an ulterior motive to it?

"Now yes, I get that argument from ignorance can be used with abandon here, but that's not really the point."

If you remember in the SC1 manual, the Xel'Naga for the most part just sat back and let the Zerg do all the evolutions themselves.

Not really. They developed the ability to assimilate species because of the xel'naga's initial protogenetics.

[ragnarok]

Not really. They developed the ability to assimilate species because of the xel'naga's initial protogenetics.

I'll have to recheck the manual for it then. If that's true I wonder just what the Xel'Naga might have done to the first spawning pool on Zerus.

[Turalyon]

If you mean that the Primal Zerg could have developed as smarter Zerg seeking independence after being released from the Overmind's Hivemind (much like Kerrigan herself), then yes, that could have been a reasonable concept for the Primal Zerg.

Would make more sense, too. Without the Overmind, the Zerg would have no choice but to revert/resort to their most original (primal) state to get by.

Sure, but such Zerg would no longer have purity of essence. The 'purities' aren't inborn, they are the result of the Xel'Naga's engineering. The same way that a Protoss who is somehow crippled no longer has purity of form.

It would be interesting to see how they can retain this purity in other way though. Aside from the cripples and Dragoon/Immortal/Stalker pilots, the Dark Templar would also be categorised as having no purity of form too because they all cut off their nerve tendrils but are, in someways, greater than the normal Protoss who have all their parts/purity of form. What about Archons? They have very slight physical forms but are still characterised as being the fullest/best expression of the Protoss.

Afterall, the purities are really just a definition ascribed by the Xel'Naga to fit a collection of observations they made. If we look at the real-word definition of "essence", it means it is something of intrinsic value that determines its character that without which, they would not exist. If this was the literal case, the death of the Overmind would also mean that the Zerg should cease to exist as well because they are defined by it and now it is lost. We know this is not true, because the Zerg still existed before the Overmind was created. That's why I like my definition for the Zerg's purity of essence.

Not really. They developed the ability to assimilate species because of the xel'naga's initial protogenetics.

That's an interesting point. The Xel'naga only manipulated their ability to survive the torrential firestorms on Zerus. Whether the Xel'Naga also manipulated them to burrow into other host creatures or whether they developed this ability on their own is another matter. This brings the question of whether the original Zerg were really parasitic to begin with or not.

[ragnarok]

That's an interesting point. The Xel'naga only manipulated their ability to survive the torrential firestorms on Zerus. Whether the Xel'Naga also manipulated them to burrow into other host creatures or whether they developed this ability on their own is another matter. This brings the question of whether the original Zerg were really parasitic to begin with or not.

Well, remember what Zurvan said about the pool: it was from there that the first Zerg was born, where one organism split into two, and the multiplying continued.

Thus by the time the Xel'Naga arrived on Zerus, these had already been plentiful.

To me however, most of the Zerg evolution was done by themselves. But at the same time, if the Xel'Naga was responsible for the very FIRST step that kick started it all and from there the Zerg could just take over themselves....

[FanaticTemplar]

It would be interesting to see how they can retain this purity in other way though. Aside from the cripples and Dragoon/Immortal/Stalker pilots, the Dark Templar would also be categorised as having no purity of form too because they all cut off their nerve tendrils but are, in someways, greater than the normal Protoss who have all their parts/purity of form. What about Archons? They have very slight physical forms but are still characterised as being the fullest/best expression of the Protoss.

Afterall, the purities are really just a definition ascribed by the Xel'Naga to fit a collection of observations they made. If we look at the real-word definition of "essence", it means it is something of intrinsic value that determines its character that without which, they would not exist. If this was the literal case, the death of the Overmind would also mean that the Zerg should cease to exist as well because they are defined by it and now it is lost. We know this is not true, because the Zerg still existed before the Overmind was created. That's why I like my definition for the Zerg's purity of essence.

Yeah, I'm operating under the Xel'Naga's definitions of the 'purities', because I don't think those are things that can exist as absolutes.

[Turalyon]

Well, remember what Zurvan said about the pool: it was from there that the first Zerg was born, where one organism split into two, and the multiplying continued.

I cannot help but remember all this Zerus stuff unfortunately. For Zerg lovers out there, its the equivalent of pouring salt into a wound that was opened in WoL.

[ragnarok]

I cannot help but remember all this Zerus stuff unfortunately. For Zerg lovers out there, its the equivalent of pouring salt into a wound that was opened in WoL.

Well, for me, I still believe there was at least a SLIGHT chance that the primal Zerg concept introduced in HotS could have worked despite what was said in the SC1 manual.

But because of the Dark Templar Saga series, there's NO way the same could work with the Protoss, but I don't blame Christie Golden for it, she still did a great job on those books.