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Thread: New Zerg data: Biology

  1. #31

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    For my part, I object to the Primal Zerg wholesale. The Zerg's unity is one of their defining factors, it was their 'purity of essence' as originally defined. Having Zerg "factions" is an aberration, as should have been the point of Brood War.

    The very notion of Primal Zerg as individualists seeking individual perfection through survival of the fittest goes against everything the Zerg were defined as being.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  2. #32
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    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I consider two different kinds of retcon. One takes history and facts from a story and retells them, changing established history. The second kind adds facts to hazy, unexplored bits of lore. The addition of the Xel'Naga lifecycle falls into the latter category, so saying the Xel'Naga never had a life cycle is kind of... silly? The author has simply chosen to cast light on that shadow of the lore. But the changes in the Overmind's character definitely falls into the former category of retroactive continuity alteration. :\
    It retcons the very first section of the zerg history:

    "Driven to perfect their science of proto-genetic evolution, the ancient, enigmatic race known as the Xel’Naga traveled to the distant fringeworld of Aiur."

    "Protoss traditions hold that the Xel’Naga were a peaceful and benevolent race, utterly consumed with the study and propagation of sentient evolution within the universe."

    They were scientists. Pure and simple. Nothing else was needed. Now yes, I get that argument from ignorance can be used with abandon here, but that's not really the point.
    Last edited by Gradius; 08-05-2014 at 12:13 AM.

  3. #33

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    For my part, I object to the Primal Zerg wholesale. The Zerg's unity is one of their defining factors, it was their 'purity of essence' as originally defined. Having Zerg "factions" is an aberration, as should have been the point of Brood War.
    By losing the Overmind, the Zerg would have lost their "purity of essence" - their defining factor - as well. At the end of Sc1 and the beginning of BW, there were only Zerg "factions" left (with Kerrigan's faction ultimately coming out on top). In such a climate, the idea of a factional Zerg that still existed on Zerus (or anywhere else throughout the galaxy) could have been an interesting wrinkle.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  4. #34

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I consider two different kinds of retcon. One takes history and facts from a story and retells them, changing established history. The second kind adds facts to hazy, unexplored bits of lore. The addition of the Xel'Naga lifecycle falls into the latter category, so saying the Xel'Naga never had a life cycle is kind of... silly? The author has simply chosen to cast light on that shadow of the lore. But the changes in the Overmind's character definitely falls into the former category of retroactive continuity alteration. :\
    They never had a NORMAL life cycle, which to me just doesn't seem to work. That means every cycle of the new generation was a gamble on the Xel'Naga's part, especially since Zamara admitted that the two species the Xel'Naga uplifted could take thousands of years just to find each other, before they merged together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    By losing the Overmind, the Zerg would have lost their "purity of essence" - their defining factor - as well. At the end of Sc1 and the beginning of BW, there were only Zerg "factions" left (with Kerrigan's faction ultimately coming out on top). In such a climate, the idea of a factional Zerg that still existed on Zerus (or anywhere else throughout the galaxy) could have been an interesting wrinkle.
    The Overmind itself had nothing to do with the purity of essence. The Xel'Naga saw the Zerg had purity of essence when they first arrived on Zerus. The purpose of the Overmind was more than just Amon's corruption. As Zurvan told Kerrigan that the primal Zerg wouldn't obey his commands, it's possible that the primal Zerg might not have wanted the merging with the Protoss for the new Xel'Naga cycle.

    Perhaps that was another reason to create the Overmind: not to corrupt the Zerg as Amon did, but rather to lead them to merge with the Protoss later on.
    Last edited by ragnarok; 08-05-2014 at 07:59 AM.

  5. #35

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    The Overmind itself had nothing to do with the purity of essence.
    I'm using FT's definition for the basis of that previous statement. Everyone's uses a different definition for what it is.

    Personally, the way I think of what purity of essence means for the Zerg is their observed quality in being able to maintain fundamental Zerg characteristics (physical, behavioural attributes, etc) despite the danger of mutation and veering away caused by the incorporation of myriad alien host characteristics.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  6. #36

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Wow. Pedantry abounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by FT
    For my part, I object to the Primal Zerg wholesale. The Zerg's unity is one of their defining factors, it was their 'purity of essence' as originally defined. Having Zerg "factions" is an aberration, as should have been the point of Brood War.
    Unity is a defining characteristic of the Zerg Swarm, the collective entity that emerged from Xel'Naga influence. The Overmind was artificially created by the Xel'Naga; it did not emerge naturally. We have next to no information on the Zerg's state before Xel'Naga intervention. It is easy to envision a small collection of Zerg insectoid parasites being left behind on Zerus. Without the Overmind's influence, natural evolution would take hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by FT
    The very notion of Primal Zerg as individualists seeking individual perfection through survival of the fittest goes against everything the Zerg were defined as being.
    The notion of Primal Zerg goes against everything the Xel'Naga defined the Zerg to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grad
    "Driven to perfect their science of proto-genetic evolution, the ancient, enigmatic race known as the Xel’Naga traveled to the distant fringeworld of Aiur."
    Que no los dos?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grad
    utterly consumed with the study and propagation of sentient evolution within the universe."
    So it's impossible for you to believe that there might be an ulterior motive to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by rag
    They never had a NORMAL life cycle, which to me just doesn't seem to work. That means every cycle of the new generation was a gamble on the Xel'Naga's part, especially since Zamara admitted that the two species the Xel'Naga uplifted could take thousands of years just to find each other, before they merged together.
    But an insect race driven to assimilate other creatures from across the galaxy IS normal? We're talking about a science fiction story here, please remember.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wow. Pedantry abounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by FT
    For my part, I object to the Primal Zerg wholesale. The Zerg's unity is one of their defining factors, it was their 'purity of essence' as originally defined. Having Zerg "factions" is an aberration, as should have been the point of Brood War.
    Unity is a defining characteristic of the Zerg Swarm, the collective entity that emerged from Xel'Naga influence. The Overmind was artificially created by the Xel'Naga; it did not emerge naturally. We have next to no information on the Zerg's state before Xel'Naga intervention. It is easy to envision a small collection of Zerg insectoid parasites being left behind on Zerus. Without the Overmind's influence, natural evolution would take hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by FT
    The very notion of Primal Zerg as individualists seeking individual perfection through survival of the fittest goes against everything the Zerg were defined as being.
    The notion of Primal Zerg goes against everything the Xel'Naga defined the Zerg to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grad
    "Driven to perfect their science of proto-genetic evolution, the ancient, enigmatic race known as the Xel’Naga traveled to the distant fringeworld of Aiur."
    Que no los dos?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grad
    utterly consumed with the study and propagation of sentient evolution within the universe."
    So it's impossible for you to believe that there might be an ulterior motive to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by rag
    They never had a NORMAL life cycle, which to me just doesn't seem to work. That means every cycle of the new generation was a gamble on the Xel'Naga's part, especially since Zamara admitted that the two species the Xel'Naga uplifted could take thousands of years just to find each other, before they merged together.
    But an insect race driven to assimilate other creatures from across the galaxy IS normal? We're talking about a science fiction story here, please remember.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  7. #37

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    By losing the Overmind, the Zerg would have lost their "purity of essence" - their defining factor - as well. At the end of Sc1 and the beginning of BW, there were only Zerg "factions" left (with Kerrigan's faction ultimately coming out on top). In such a climate, the idea of a factional Zerg that still existed on Zerus (or anywhere else throughout the galaxy) could have been an interesting wrinkle.
    Yes, but in Brood War, the Zerg 'factions' are a direct consequence of the Swarm's failure on Aiur. They are broken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I'm using FT's definition for the basis of that previous statement. Everyone's uses a different definition for what it is.

    Personally, the way I think of what purity of essence means for the Zerg is their observed quality in being able to maintain fundamental Zerg characteristics (physical, behavioural attributes, etc) despite the danger of mutation and veering away caused by the incorporation of myriad alien host characteristics.
    Well, in the manual the Zerg's 'purity of essence' is directly contrasted to the Protoss' 'failure of essence', which was explicitly the beginnings of the Aeon of Strife and the severing of their primal link. If internal strife and division are a 'failure of essence' and the Zerg were created to be a direct response to that failure, then the hivemind is definitely the purity of essence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    The notion of Primal Zerg goes against everything the Xel'Naga defined the Zerg to be.
    Sure. That's pretty much the same thing though.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  8. #38

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by FT
    Sure. That's pretty much the same thing though.
    Um, no? The Zerg were not some test tube creation; they existed before well before the Xel'Naga were ever done with the Protoss. They were a race of individual, insectoid parasites. Who knows what they would have become had the Xel'Naga never touched Zerus -- oh wait, we DO now.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  9. #39

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I'm using FT's definition for the basis of that previous statement. Everyone's uses a different definition for what it is.

    Personally, the way I think of what purity of essence means for the Zerg is their observed quality in being able to maintain fundamental Zerg characteristics (physical, behavioural attributes, etc) despite the danger of mutation and veering away caused by the incorporation of myriad alien host characteristics.
    Which would make sense, as the ORIGINAL Zerg started off as nothing more than insect parasites. Hence it's likely that even for the primal Zerg, the large animal forms are not the real primal Zerg at all, and the real primal Zerg are just the parasites living inside those hosts.

  10. #40

    Default Re: New Zerg data: Biology

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Um, no? The Zerg were not some test tube creation; they existed before well before the Xel'Naga were ever done with the Protoss. They were a race of individual, insectoid parasites. Who knows what they would have become had the Xel'Naga never touched Zerus -- oh wait, we DO now.
    What Zerg are has always been the Xel'Naga engineered species. This is a fictitious story we're talking about, you know? We'd known what the Zerg were for, what, fourteen years already?

    But if you want to be stubborn about it, it's the Xel'Naga who named the Zerg. Defining the Zerg by what they were before they became the Zerg would be as accurate as defining Terrans as single-celled organisms, because they evolved from such.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

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