So yeah...LotV?

[RODTHEGOD]

I'd say the main problem with Star craft 2 is that it focused too much on characters. It literally made characters decisions effect billions of lives. Star craft was never about characters.
Star craft was about factions and how they smashed together. The characters are mostly just responding to those factions being smashed together.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd say the main problem with Star craft 2 is that it focused too much on characters. It literally made characters decisions effect billions of lives. Star craft was never about characters.
Star craft was about factions and how they smashed together. The characters are mostly just responding to those factions being smashed together.

[Nissa]

I'd say the main problem with Star craft 2 is that it focused too much on characters. It literally made characters decisions effect billions of lives. Star craft was never about characters.
Star craft was about factions and how they smashed together. The characters are mostly just responding to those factions being smashed together.

I would argue the opposite. Because Starcraft had so few characters, it was very important that each one be unique and worthy of interest. The only real failure in that regard is DuGalle, whose behavior is more or less whatever Blizzard wants it to be for the plot. The others tend to be consistent and interesting. Though I admit I find the Overmind boring, his simplicity is appropriate for the character.

That's the main difference between SCI and SCII. In SCII, only the carry-over characters, Abathur, and Tychus have any personality at all, (putting aside Blizz's retconning of most of their backgrounds). Dr. Hanson, nerd boy, General Warfield, Dehaka, Iszcha, and Valerian are all generic whatevers with the collective personality of a breadstick. Stettman is only as good as an engineer cliche.

In other words, it's the death of the characters that killed the franchise.

[DonnyZeDoof]

I can understand why people like Tychus bit I have absolutely no idea why so many people like Abathur. He was just as shallow as any other zerg character to me. Can anyone enlighten me on what aspects of his personality make him likeable?

- - - Updated - - -

I can understand why people like Tychus bit I have absolutely no idea why so many people like Abathur. He was just as shallow as any other zerg character to me. Can anyone enlighten me on what aspects of his personality make him likeable?

[RODTHEGOD]

I would argue the opposite. Because Starcraft had so few characters, it was very important that each one be unique and worthy of interest. The only real failure in that regard is DuGalle, whose behavior is more or less whatever Blizzard wants it to be for the plot. The others tend to be consistent and interesting. Though I admit I find the Overmind boring, his simplicity is appropriate for the character.

That's the main difference between SCI and SCII. In SCII, only the carry-over characters, Abathur, and Tychus have any personality at all, (putting aside Blizz's retconning of most of their backgrounds). Dr. Hanson, nerd boy, General Warfield, Dehaka, Iszcha, and Valerian are all generic whatevers with the collective personality of a breadstick. Stettman is only as good as an engineer cliche.

In other words, it's the death of the characters that killed the franchise.

True enough. Many of the characters were very 1-dimensional and were only there because Blizzard had a "insert generic research scientist" in its outline.

I was more talking about how there was literally nothing besides the characters given. Here's Raynor who happens to have the ONLY scientist in the whole dominion that can successfully study the Zerg and Protoss. Here's Warfield who happens to be the ONLY general in the whole dominion that matters. Here's Donny Vermillion and Kate Lockwell who happen to be the ONLY reporters in the whole dominion (which could actually explain why it was such poor propaganda, because they were LITERALLY the only reporters) and they ONLY reported on things that involved the Raiders. Here's Ariel Hanson who happens to be the ONLY civilian in the whole dominion that calls for help. Here's Rory Swan who happens to be the ONLY competent engineer in the whole dominion. Here's Valerian who happens to be the ONLY one on the Bucephalus that matters. Here's Orlan who happens to be the ONLY person in the whole Dominion who can decrypt confederate systems. Here's Mengsk who happens to be the ONLY spokesman for the Dominion

I thought Hots improved on some things in this regard with the many queens (named and unnamed) through out the k-sector as well as the Zerg evolution missions that gave the impression there were at least SOME things happening in the k-sector besides what Kerrigan was looking at.

- - - Updated - - -

I would argue the opposite. Because Starcraft had so few characters, it was very important that each one be unique and worthy of interest. The only real failure in that regard is DuGalle, whose behavior is more or less whatever Blizzard wants it to be for the plot. The others tend to be consistent and interesting. Though I admit I find the Overmind boring, his simplicity is appropriate for the character.

That's the main difference between SCI and SCII. In SCII, only the carry-over characters, Abathur, and Tychus have any personality at all, (putting aside Blizz's retconning of most of their backgrounds). Dr. Hanson, nerd boy, General Warfield, Dehaka, Iszcha, and Valerian are all generic whatevers with the collective personality of a breadstick. Stettman is only as good as an engineer cliche.

In other words, it's the death of the characters that killed the franchise.

True enough. Many of the characters were very 1-dimensional and were only there because Blizzard had a "insert generic research scientist" in its outline.

I was more talking about how there was literally nothing besides the characters given. Here's Raynor who happens to have the ONLY scientist in the whole dominion that can successfully study the Zerg and Protoss. Here's Warfield who happens to be the ONLY general in the whole dominion that matters. Here's Donny Vermillion and Kate Lockwell who happen to be the ONLY reporters in the whole dominion (which could actually explain why it was such poor propaganda, because they were LITERALLY the only reporters) and they ONLY reported on things that involved the Raiders. Here's Ariel Hanson who happens to be the ONLY civilian in the whole dominion that calls for help. Here's Rory Swan who happens to be the ONLY competent engineer in the whole dominion. Here's Valerian who happens to be the ONLY one on the Bucephalus that matters. Here's Orlan who happens to be the ONLY person in the whole Dominion who can decrypt confederate systems. Here's Mengsk who happens to be the ONLY spokesman for the Dominion

I thought Hots improved on some things in this regard with the many queens (named and unnamed) through out the k-sector as well as the Zerg evolution missions that gave the impression there were at least SOME things happening in the k-sector besides what Kerrigan was looking at.

[Turalyon]

I can understand why people like Tychus bit I have absolutely no idea why so many people like Abathur. He was just as shallow as any other zerg character to me. Can anyone enlighten me on what aspects of his personality make him likeable?

Of all the new Zerg characters, Abathur has the strongest sense of self. The way he speaks and acts reflect that. In that way, he's similar to the Overmind. He has a uniqueness about him that the others lack and he definitely feels like what a Zerg-like/alien creature would be (you'd have to understand and appreciate the Zerg aesthetic/mindset to get the sense of it). Zagara, Iszha and Dehaka (not including Kerrigan because she is apparently human in most regards now) are pretty generic personalities that could be swapped out and replaced with human counterparts really and that doesn't bode well with what is supposed to be an alien race with alien motivations.

[ragnarok]

Of all the new Zerg characters, Abathur has the strongest sense of self. The way he speaks and acts reflect that. In that way, he's similar to the Overmind. He has a uniqueness about him that the others lack and he definitely feels like what a Zerg-like/alien creature would be (you'd have to understand and appreciate the Zerg aesthetic/mindset to get the sense of it). Zagara, Iszha and Dehaka (not including Kerrigan because she is apparently human in most regards now) are pretty generic personalities that could be swapped out and replaced with human counterparts really and that doesn't bode well with what is supposed to be an alien race with alien motivations.

You have to remember the Broodmothers have this personality because they were based on the original QoB template. It is why you can see traces of humanity in there, however arrogant that may be.

That being said, Dehaka proved to be just as arrogant. This was seen at Skygeirr, where he was telling Kerrigan that he didn't need a wall because he can evolve armor. Nor did he did a weapon, as he can evolve claws. Kerrigan had to remind him that even the primal Zerg have their limitations.

[Turalyon]

You have to remember the Broodmothers have this personality because they were based on the original QoB template. It is why you can see traces of humanity in there, however arrogant that may be.

That being said, Dehaka proved to be just as arrogant. This was seen at Skygeirr, where he was telling Kerrigan that he didn't need a wall because he can evolve armor. Nor did he did a weapon, as he can evolve claws. Kerrigan had to remind him that even the primal Zerg have their limitations.

It's not the arrogance that's irksome, it's the pettiness that comes with it. Pettiness is a trait that fits well for humans and/or Protoss but not Zerg. We don't want Zerg to be humanised - whether that means making them more easily sympathisable or being brought down to our level by giving them distinctly human traits. So much for HotS maintaining a distinctly Zerg "feel".

[ragnarok]

It's not the arrogance that's irksome, it's the pettiness that comes with it. Pettiness is a trait that fits well for humans and/or Protoss but not Zerg. We don't want Zerg to be humanised - whether that means making them more easily sympathisable or being brought down to our level by giving them distinctly human traits. So much for HotS maintaining a distinctly Zerg "feel".

Yeah that's what some have said on the battlenet forums. The swarm's evolution was fine, but the personality was still too humanized. It needs to be returned to the way when the Overmind ruled it.

[protoswarrior]

It's not the arrogance that's irksome, it's the pettiness that comes with it. Pettiness is a trait that fits well for humans and/or Protoss but not Zerg. We don't want Zerg to be humanised - whether that means making them more easily sympathisable or being brought down to our level by giving them distinctly human traits. So much for HotS maintaining a distinctly Zerg "feel".

I am surprised you think that it is "petty" for Brood Mothers to be more independent of each other and have the cognitive abilities to take major decisions (being thus more "deadly", per Kerrigan's plan) in the war, because you are arrogant enough to believe that humans have the "dibbs" on being individuals.

This makes me wonder whether you think being an eternal hivemind is all about what Zerg can accomplish, which is hypocritical since Cerebrates were still able to make battlefield decisions for the most part, except for when the Overmind made overriding changes to those directives. Similarly, Kerrigan does EXACTLY the same thing but with different media. That's petty? Please.

[Turalyon]

I am surprised you think that it is "petty" for Brood Mothers to be more independent of each other and have the cognitive abilities to take major decisions (being thus more "deadly", per Kerrigan's plan) in the war, because you are arrogant enough to believe that humans have the "dibbs" on being individuals.

This makes me wonder whether you think being an eternal hivemind is all about what Zerg can accomplish, which is hypocritical since Cerebrates were still able to make battlefield decisions for the most part, except for when the Overmind made overriding changes to those directives. Similarly, Kerrigan does EXACTLY the same thing but with different media. That's petty? Please.

This has nothing to do with what I was saying. I was talking about cultural identity/essence not general effectiveness. If you're talking about effectiveness, one could easily say things about how the Terrans and Protoss are just as effective, too.