Why doesn't the Captain warn DuGalle about Duran's treachery?

[ragnarok]

I seem to have misworded my original post a bit, I did notice that Stukov addressed the Captain at the very beginning so the captain would be able to hear Stukov's side of the conversation between him and Duran, it's Duran's responses that I'm saying didn't catch the Captain's ear. That the captain would be hearing Stukov's side of the conversation but not Duran...kinda like listening to a friend talk with someone on the phone, and only hear your friend's side of the conversation.

Not exactly the greatest justification. It's nothing but fanon at best, but it makes sense when I run this situation through my head with this justification. It would either possibly be this, or Gradius' mind-control gimmick that's always used to justify why DuGalle started trusting Duran's word over Stukovs. Not saying the latter is wrong since Duran's voice clearly gets all "infested" sounding several times he converses with DuGalle, it just...would have been nice to have a more concrete evidence of some sort.

That wouldn't work, Retlo.

You said it yourself that at times, you were probably not even playing as the character you're supposed to be playing.

Are you suggestion that Duran's part of the convo was meant only for the PLAYER to hear? If that's true, that's a VERY horrible gameplay issue.

[RetlocLive]

That wouldn't work, Retlo.

You said it yourself that at times, you were probably not even playing as the character you're supposed to be playing.

Are you suggestion that Duran's part of the convo was meant only for the PLAYER to hear? If that's true, that's a VERY horrible gameplay issue.

um...what are you trying to prove exactly?

[ragnarok]

um...what are you trying to prove exactly?

Well, you had wondered if Duran had somehow managed to influence the UED Captain. See if he HAD heard Duran's side of the convo, then Duran's calm attitude would have immediately told him something was up. Given that had that point they only saw Duran as just a Confederate soldier, it would be logical to assume treachery.

But to say Duran was psionically influencing the captain seems strange. If he was doing it, why did Duran let go of that control later on?

[Turalyon]

Well, in that part, this is EXACTLY the problem when you have to play the main character that's mute and nameless. You don't get to know what he is thinking.

As the player character, the Captain's "thoughts" would be our own. If we, as an audience member, see what is clearly outright treachery, there can be no defence for the PC/Captain to remain silent unless we conceive of a reason retroactively which would be baseless (it will be out of nowhere) anyway.

Then why was her power level higher by the time of WoL? To me, I always felt that by unlocking her full potential, her psionic strength just kept growing in power during those 4 years, something Duran knew.

Having played only the games, I never got a sense of Kerrigan having a "power meter" at all. The only hint of such a thing was with unlocking the damage done to her mind by raiding the Amerigo. Her full potential in terms of raw power was fully unlocked from that point on.

Then did Duran know just WHAT the UED would have done with Kerrigan if they had won?

He could have just ordered to have her killed. In the scheme of things and in hindsight considering the convulutions that were his plans in Sc2, it would've been a wiser move.

I seem to have misworded my original post a bit, I did notice that Stukov addressed the Captain at the very beginning so the captain would be able to hear Stukov's side of the conversation between him and Duran, it's Duran's responses that I'm saying didn't catch the Captain's ear. That the captain would be hearing Stukov's side of the conversation but not Duran...kinda like listening to a friend talk with someone on the phone, and only hear your friend's side of the conversation.

Not exactly the greatest justification. It's nothing but fanon at best, but it makes sense when I run this situation through my head with this justification. It would either possibly be this, or Gradius' mind-control gimmick that's always used to justify why DuGalle started trusting Duran's word over Stukovs. Not saying the latter is wrong since Duran's voice clearly gets all "infested" sounding several times he converses with DuGalle, it just...would have been nice to have a more concrete evidence of some sort.

This would be fine had we any sign that the Captain was not supposed to be privy to the conversation at all. Given the player character being part of the action, it would've been better had the conversation actually cut off and we didn't hear Duran at all. That way we're left with Stukov seemingly running off and Duran criticising him in the briefing. It would've been a greater shock/impact to only see the reveal of Duran's betrayal when at the exact moment he kills Stukov.

That in itself is not the issue, but it is absolutely explicit that the Cerebrate made the trip from Tarsonis to Char (since it was warned it might be unsettled) and the game tells us that 'the entirety of the extended Zerg Swarm' made its way to Aiur, which suggests that our Cerebrate did so as well. Then in the Protoss campaign we see actual Cerebrates on Aiur, so we know that some Cerebrates did go. There's just no evidence in the game that our Cerebrate stayed behind.

So what was the problem again?

Given the novel came after the fact, I don't see a problem with the cerebrate still being able to "watch over" Kerrigan (once again through intermediaries) on Char when it's actual physical location was on Aiur.

[ragnarok]

Having played only the games, I never got a sense of Kerrigan having a "power meter" at all. The only hint of such a thing was with unlocking the damage done to her mind by raiding the Amerigo. Her full potential in terms of raw power was fully unlocked from that point on.

This is why you should read the books, they're not bad at all. I never saw it that way, since some of the abilities she demonstrated in All In she did not have back in BW.

Regardless, I continue to believe the whole of HotS was merely to lure everyone into a false impression of just how powerful the primal transformation really is. Against Amon, it's probably just a feeble matter. After all, we all saw the battle scene at the end of Phantoms of the Void and look how that turned out.

He could have just ordered to have her killed. In the scheme of things and in hindsight considering the convulutions that were his plans in Sc2, it would've been a wiser move.

Which is why Duran gambled on quite a few things as well, some of them turned out horribly for him.

[FanaticTemplar]

So what was the problem again?

Given the novel came after the fact, I don't see a problem with the cerebrate still being able to "watch over" Kerrigan (once again through intermediaries) on Char when it's actual physical location was on Aiur.

The problem is that its physical location was retconned into being on Char.

[Turalyon]

This is why you should read the books, they're not bad at all. I never saw it that way, since some of the abilities she demonstrated in All In she did not have back in BW.

Why should I read books that suggest something that wasn't even there to begin with? The reason Kerrigan didn't show any of those abilities she displays in Sc2 in BW is simply because she didn't really have them in the first place. It's largely an anomaly why she is so powerful (in terms of her abilities) in Sc2 that one has no choice but to retroactively fanon the idea that she always had a power meter that was steadily growing. To have to do so is backwards logic and entirely baseless really.

Which is why Duran gambled on quite a few things as well, some of them turned out horribly for him.

Yeah, like gambling on ensuring Kerrigan stuck around long enough to eventually be the one to undo all his centuries of planning.

The problem is that its physical location was retconned into being on Char.

Then I should be glad I didn't read that book then. Wouldn't want to confuse myself anymore would I?

[Telenil]

Well, like it or not, it's supposed to be one continuous story and if one has to make try and make sense of it all, one has to put aside their dislike and look at it with an impartial view.

I can't help but thinking this is trying to square a circle. The only connection Starcraft 2 has to Brood War is the three races and a few lines of description for each major character. That's it. They are supposed to be in the same universe, but the amount of changes between the two games is what you typically see in a reboot, not in a sequel.

Trying to explain Duran's actions with the Amon arc is trying to explain the first Robocop with the recent remake. There are similar themes and you may argue that some descriptions are applicable, but you are not supposed to fill the gaps of the older story with the latest.

I'm really not trying to be a dick, it's just that I see no evidence that the writers were trying to write a story consistent with itself, not to mention Brood War. The Tal'darim serve the guy who paid Raynor to get the artefact?Tychus working for Arcturus? Zeratul has forgotten about the Hybrid? Good Overmind?
If they didn't get that right, Starcraft 2 is completely unreliable as a way to explain Brood War. Think this:

Why should I read books that suggest something that wasn't even there to begin with?

But applied to Starcraft 2. If something does fit at the level of detail we are discussing, I suspect it was chance more than any purposeful writing.

[ragnarok]

Why should I read books that suggest something that wasn't even there to begin with? The reason Kerrigan didn't show any of those abilities she displays in Sc2 in BW is simply because she didn't really have them in the first place. It's largely an anomaly why she is so powerful (in terms of her abilities) in Sc2 that one has no choice but to retroactively fanon the idea that she always had a power meter that was steadily growing. To have to do so is backwards logic and entirely baseless really.

Actually this is yet ANOTHER problem with the SC2 trilogy so far. While SC1 and BW had its share of problems, at least THEY can stand on their own without the books. SC2 cannot, and tells like less than 1/3 of the story without the books.

Yeah, like gambling on ensuring Kerrigan stuck around long enough to eventually be the one to undo all his centuries of planning.

Well, some things are simply thought of to be unpredictable. When Mengsk left her on Tarsonis, even Raynor didn't expect the Zerg to just infest her. He too expected her to be killed.

In Duran's case, you have to look at what happened in Flashpoint, when he (as Narud) wanted to study Kerrigan once she, Raynor, and Valerian arrived on Prometheus station. That means Duran still felt Kerrigan still had use to his plans, despite being deinfested.

- - - Updated - - -

Why should I read books that suggest something that wasn't even there to begin with? The reason Kerrigan didn't show any of those abilities she displays in Sc2 in BW is simply because she didn't really have them in the first place. It's largely an anomaly why she is so powerful (in terms of her abilities) in Sc2 that one has no choice but to retroactively fanon the idea that she always had a power meter that was steadily growing. To have to do so is backwards logic and entirely baseless really.

Actually this is yet ANOTHER problem with the SC2 trilogy so far. While SC1 and BW had its share of problems, at least THEY can stand on their own without the books. SC2 cannot, and tells like less than 1/3 of the story without the books.

Yeah, like gambling on ensuring Kerrigan stuck around long enough to eventually be the one to undo all his centuries of planning.

Well, some things are simply thought of to be unpredictable. When Mengsk left her on Tarsonis, even Raynor didn't expect the Zerg to just infest her. He too expected her to be killed.

In Duran's case, you have to look at what happened in Flashpoint, when he (as Narud) wanted to study Kerrigan once she, Raynor, and Valerian arrived on Prometheus station. That means Duran still felt Kerrigan still had use to his plans, despite being deinfested.

I can't help but thinking this is trying to square a circle. The only connection Starcraft 2 has to Brood War is the three races and a few lines of description for each major character. That's it. They are supposed to be in the same universe, but the amount of changes between the two games is what you typically see in a reboot, not in a sequel.

Trying to explain Duran's actions with the Amon arc is trying to explain the first Robocop with the recent remake. There are similar themes and you may argue that some descriptions are applicable, but you are not supposed to fill the gaps of the older story with the latest.

I'm really not trying to be a dick, it's just that I see no evidence that the writers were trying to write a story consistent with itself, not to mention Brood War. The Tal'darim serve the guy who paid Raynor to get the artefact?Tychus working for Arcturus? Zeratul has forgotten about the Hybrid? Good Overmind?
If they didn't get that right, Starcraft 2 is completely unreliable as a way to explain Brood War. Think this: But applied to Starcraft 2. If something does fit at the level of detail we are discussing, I suspect it was chance more than any purposeful writing.

Actually that's the point. Because all the GOOD writers left after BW, the ones that replaced them took less than 5 min to read the SC1 and BW story, and that's why they missed most of the points.

Hell, if you compare the SC2 story with the SC1 manual back in 1998, about 90% of that manual will no longer match lore consistency.

Blizzard suffered the same problem with the WC universe. WC3 had so many lore conflicts and inconsistencies with WC1 and WC2 that it was impossible for Blizzard to justify it.

But then, they just took the easy way out and said "all the lore in WC1 and 2 are no longer considered canon."

[FanaticTemplar]

I'm really not trying to be a dick, it's just that I see no evidence that the writers were trying to write a story consistent with itself, not to mention Brood War.

Almost nothing of consequence happens in Brood War, it's hard to be inconsistent with it.

The Tal'darim serve the guy who paid Raynor to get the artefact?Tychus working for Arcturus?

What about either of those contradicts lore from StarCraft or Brood War?

Zeratul has forgotten about the Hybrid? Good Overmind?

Neither of these actually happened.