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Thread: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

  1. #11

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I'm gonna be that person, Gradius, but actually Starcraft began in December 2499.

    Well, unless you meant that the DT Saga said it was 2500.
    It wasn't 2500. The books confirmed the DT Saga book place in the year 2503.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I'm gonna be that person, Gradius, but actually Starcraft began in December 2499.
    I never said it didn't. I thought it was obvious that 2500 was for rounding purposes. Also, most of SC1 does in fact take place in 2500.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    This is what I don't get. If the protoss conquered hundreds of worlds, why did they have to use a xel'naga ship? Couldn't they have used one of their own? Perhaps they relied on warp gates.

    Warp gate usage definitely fits better with the DT Saga lack of technology. The way the manual describes it implies spaceships, but doesn't specify: "With their growing prosperity leading them to rediscover many of the sciences and studies they had lost, the Protoss learned to travel amongst the stars." A little ambiguous...

    Another thing that's interesting is that the Dae'Uhl / Khala only seem to forbid the Protoss from intervening with "lesser" races— "advanced" races are totally fine—

    "Over the course of only a few hundred years, the Protoss conquered hundreds of worlds within their corner of the galaxy, and spread the fruits of their great civilization to many of the more advanced races that they encountered."

    The manual then goes on to say that the Terrans were seen as a lesser race, despite the fact that "the Protoss found the Terrans to be fascinating in that they constantly fought against one another, yet still flourished and advanced their technologies and industries by leaps and bounds." Probably they were seen as lessar despite this advancement because "it seemed to the Protoss that the Terrans had no respect for the delicate balance of nature, as they recklessly sped from one world to the next, leaving nothing but barren wastelands in their wake. Bidden by the strict dictates of the Dae'Uhl, the Protoss were forbidden to directly interfere with the reckless Terrans, no matter how much they wished to do so."

    So, it depends on whether the lesser/advanced status has some basis in technological advancement or is more about societal attitudes. The "many" other races the Protoss did contact during those hundreds of years were apparently more advanced than the Terrans— if technology is a factor in that, then presumably some of them would have had spaceships, and if the Protoss didn't yet at that point, then they could have learned. But if it was just about having a harmonious society, maybe a basic agrarian culture would have been deemed more advanced than humanity, as long as they were peaceful and lived sustainably.

    And then of course there are races that they've openly fought with— we know Fenix had engaged in battle with the Tagal at some point in the century leading up to the main game, and the Colossi were used against the Kalathi at some earlier point. The Dae'Uhl doesn't apply if they attack you or another race under your protection, and I guess that happens a lot, given how warfare-focused the whole Templar caste is.

    As for giving the Rogue Tribes a Xel'Naga ship, maybe the Conclave would rather have given them an ancient, run-down piece of weaponless technology than some nice new Protoss ship. But that attitude doesn't really mesh with the reverence for leftover Xel'Naga temples that it seems like they ought to have.
    Last edited by Robear; 06-09-2014 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    According to the DT saga they were always at a stone age level. Two protoss have a rock fight after the xel'naga depart. :P
    I'm going to assume those books also retcon the Protoss murdering hundreds of Xel'Naga before they escape?
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  5. #15

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    I'm going to assume those books also retcon the Protoss murdering hundreds of Xel'Naga before they escape?
    Actually they didn't. Remember how Metzen screwed up the SC lore because he spent less than 15 min on the SC1 manual? This was EXACTLY the case here.

    He didn't even pick up the part that in Protoss history, Khas had to travel from one world to another to spread the Khala religion.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    He didn't even pick up the part that in Protoss history, Khas had to travel from one world to another to spread the Khala religion.
    Wait, so if the protoss were always at the stone-age level, why did he have to travel to spread the Khala?

    - - - Updated - - -

    He didn't even pick up the part that in Protoss history, Khas had to travel from one world to another to spread the Khala religion.
    Wait, so if the protoss were always at the stone-age level, why did he have to travel to spread the Khala?
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Wait, so if the protoss were always at the stone-age level, why did he have to travel to spread the Khala?

    - - - Updated - - -


    Wait, so if the protoss were always at the stone-age level, why did he have to travel to spread the Khala?
    It's not that, VoK.

    By the time Khas was traveling to other worlds to spread the Khala religion, it was already AFTER the Xel'Naga had uplifted them.

    Remember the timeline: by the time the Xel'Naga FIRST set foot on Aiur, the Protoss people had very primitive technology. By the time the Xel'Naga left Aiur, the Protoss had become an advanced civilization. However, because they felt their "gods" abandoned them, it caused a civil war, which was the Aeon of Strife.

    It was only due to Khas's actions with the Khala that ended this civil war.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Adun was basically the first guy to figure out how to use void energy (1500 AD). The "mindset" of individualism has nothing to do with being a dark templar or not.
    Maybe not, but it would certainly inform their natural affinity to use void energy in the first place seeing that it led to them cutting off their nerve cords and having to draw their powers from elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    I'm going to assume those books also retcon the Protoss murdering hundreds of Xel'Naga before they escape?
    I assume they still had their psionic powers then to aid them at that point. Apparently, they then devolved during the Aeon of Strife that followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Wait, so if the protoss were always at the stone-age level, why did he have to travel to spread the Khala?
    I don't see why either. If Khas reawakened the latent psychic link the Protoss all shared, he wouldn't need to physically travel to other Protoss to "tell" others of Khas' teachings. Besides, I wouldn't even know how he could have done that since the Protoss would be at stone-age level tech at the time of that discovery.
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  9. #19

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    I'm going to assume those books also retcon the Protoss murdering hundreds of Xel'Naga before they escape?

    Even with the lack of technology I think this still works. Obviously I preferred the pre-SC2/DT Saga retconning version, but, even without technology, if the Xel'Naga worldships were landed on Aiur and the Xel'Naga were pretty much totally peaceful or at least reluctant to harm their creation even if they did have weapons, if an angry mob of thousands of Protoss descended on a worldship, with stone knives or even just with their bare hands, or picking up pieces of Xel'Naga tech and using them as clubs, hundreds of Xel'Naga civilians could have been killed. It was just hundreds, not thousands, it would only take one ship being overrun like that to get those numbers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm going to assume those books also retcon the Protoss murdering hundreds of Xel'Naga before they escape?

    Even with the lack of technology I think this still works. Obviously I preferred the pre-SC2/DT Saga retconning version, but, even without technology, if the Xel'Naga worldships were landed on Aiur and the Xel'Naga were pretty much totally peaceful or at least reluctant to harm their creation even if they did have weapons, if an angry mob of thousands of Protoss descended on a worldship, with stone knives or even just with their bare hands, or picking up pieces of Xel'Naga tech and using them as clubs, hundreds of Xel'Naga civilians could have been killed. It was just hundreds, not thousands, it would only take one ship being overrun like that to get those numbers.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Robear View Post
    Even with the lack of technology I think this still works. Obviously I preferred the pre-SC2/DT Saga retconning version, but, even without technology, if the Xel'Naga worldships were landed on Aiur and the Xel'Naga were pretty much totally peaceful or at least reluctant to harm their creation even if they did have weapons, if an angry mob of thousands of Protoss descended on a worldship, with stone knives or even just with their bare hands, or picking up pieces of Xel'Naga tech and using them as clubs, hundreds of Xel'Naga civilians could have been killed. It was just hundreds, not thousands, it would only take one ship being overrun like that to get those numbers.
    Sure, but that assumes the Xel'Naga are vulnerable. Isn't that series the one that explains that the Xel'Naga are basically ('true') Protoss/Zerg Hybrids? They boosted up the power of the Xel'Naga from "intergalactic genius biologists" to "perfect beings" at the same time as they weakened the Protoss.

    Incidentally, where is it mentioned that the Protoss inhabited multiple worlds before the Aeon of Strife?
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

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