Protoss History, Beliefs, Technology

[Robear]

Well, I haven't made a new thread in a long time. About 3 years, haha.

Who's up for a discussion of Protoss history? I've typed out a loose chronology of the events described in the manual, plus some extra info we've gained since:

• After observing and guiding them secretly for a time, the Xel'Naga come down to Aiur and reveal themselves to the Protoss, where they directly teach the scientifically-minded Protoss, who "worship them as gods."
• Protoss become enamored with personal achievement and pride, and the excelling tribes begin to distance themselves from other. The Xel'Naga grow disappointed in this rise of individualism, and the Protoss grow increasingly disillusioned with the Xel'Naga, spreading rumors against them, no longer seeing them as divine. The Protoss begin to lose their psychic link.
• The Xel'Naga decide to abandon Aiur— in response, the Protoss attack their worldships and murder "hundreds" of them. They leave, and the Protoss are bereft. In despair, the abandoned tribes begin the Aeon of Strife, where "countless generations" of Protoss became "legions of merciless killers... without ever knowing the legacies of their past, or of the primal psychic bond that their forefathers had once shared." So, we don't know how long Protoss generations are, but we can assume this is a gap of at least several millennia.
• Many if not most Protoss have been reduced to caveman levels of technology by the time Khas rediscovers the psychic link, according to the DT saga. Despite the Protoss' prior interest in science, even members of the tribe who safeguards leftover Xel'Naga technology have no knowledge of writing. Khas rediscovers the psychic link and reunifies the tribes through the Khala, and divides them into the Templar/Judicator/Khalai classes.
• Within "a few hundred years," the Protoss rediscover their old technology and conquer "hundreds of worlds." They keep to the Dae'Uhl, secretly watching over "lesser races," "many hundreds of species." A few hundred years is a lot less than a maximum Protoss lifespan, so this transition from no knowledge of mapmaking to ruling hundreds of worlds (1/8th of the territory covered by the Xel'Naga) happened in less than a lifetime.
• The Conclave has concealed that some tribes still haven't embraced the Khala, and fear that those tribes' influence might "destroy all that Khas had accomplished." They order the Templar, led by Adun to destroy them. When he refuses, they pack the Rogue Tribes aboard an ancient Xel'Naga ship and exile them. The legend of them cutting off their nerve cords spreads throughout the Protoss, making them "hunted and feared by their own brethren." The exile happens around the 16th century CE, according to Raszagal's age (she was young during it, but there).
• Tassadar discovers the Zerg, and on Aiur they are determined to be of Xel'Naga origin, and the game begins. This happens in the 25th century.

In this, there are a couple parts that especially interest me.

The Dark Templar have thus only existed for around 1000 years, which could be anywhere from a couple generations to, I dunno, 10 if they reproduce at age 100. I'd guess they can reproduce around 200? That would be enough generations to establish a tradition of Dark Templar assassins and experiment with Dark Archons and all that. Do we have any indication of their generation length that I'm unaware of, though?

How long do you think it took for the Khala to spread across Aiur? The manual says unequivocally that within hundreds of years of Khas, the Conclave was firmly in power, and the Protoss had an interstellar empire. But since spacefaring technology and scientific knowledge was still leftover on Aiur from before the Aeon of Strife, and in space they didn't encounter any more intelligent races, this may have been pretty easy (also I guess that officially the Xel'Naga left warp gates to other worlds behind as well). Could the Protoss have spread into space before the Khala spread to tribes that were still entrenched in isolation, unaware that the Aeon of Strife had ended? Or as the psychic communal link grew, would it have drawn the tribes in?
At some point after this, the Conclave turns its attention to the rogue tribes, but wants to destroy them, rather than trying to convert them. So it seems like this was a considerable amount of time after the Khala's initial spread, and well after Khas' death, although we don't know when exactly that was. Let's say 1000 years between Khas creating the Khala/the Protoss resuming use of technology, and the exiling of the Rogue Tribes. Then it's another thousand years until the game starts. That's only like 3 Protoss lifetimes! Although presumably Protoss technology and civilization could advance faster than humans', due to the psychic link facilitating combining everyone's experience and knowledge.

In another direction, at what point did the Protoss resume thinking of the Xel'Naga as gods? Khas obviously had come around to their belief in communal being over individualism, but the Dae'Uhl's standard of watching only from afar rather than directly appearing to the races they oversaw was their way of avoiding the Xel'Naga's mistakes. The Conclave's banishment of the Rogue Tribes in a still-working Xel'Naga ship to cover up their existence suggests that, to the Conclave, that Xel'Naga artifact was not terribly important to them. Then in SC2 at least the Dark Templar show up calling them gods again. Perhaps with hundreds of years being based out of that ship, the Dark Templar regained their pre-Aeon of Strife respect for them? But it's also odd, because the Dark Templar's individualism and refusal to join with the other tribes were exactly what made the Xel'Naga conclude the Protoss were a failure and to leave them. But, the Dark Templar probably weren't aware of that, that knowledge being lost during the Aeon of Strife and never regained in the isolationist rogue tribes.

So, any thoughts? Is their material from the books that contradicts what I think?

[DemolitionSquid]

Personally I really wish we knew more about Protoss biology. They have many qualities of both plants and reptiles, so my best guess is they're oviparous. Knowing how fast and how they breed would really help with the generational timescale.

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Personally I really wish we knew more about Protoss biology. They have many qualities of both plants and reptiles, so my best guess is they're oviparous. Knowing how fast and how they breed would really help with the generational timescale.

[Nissa]

I refuse to believe that the Protoss were at "caveman" level during the Aeon of Strife, at least at the end. They have grand, powerful technology during the game, and it's all implied to be ancient. And you'd think that the lack of a psychic link would lead to creating a written language, even presuming the Protoss didn't have one before they were mutated by the Xel'Naga.

That, and there's no particular reason to assume that Dark Templar beliefs aren't older (well, unless the books say so, but I usually ignore them). Potentially, their beliefs are based on tribal beliefs during the Aeon of Strife, and not wanting to let go of these beliefs could have contributed to avoiding the Khala.

[FanaticTemplar]

I don't really understand why they'd be at a stone age level either. Though I can't think of any really comparable example from human history to compare to.

[ragnarok]

I don't really understand why they'd be at a stone age level either. Though I can't think of any really comparable example from human history to compare to.

Are you sure they were at a stone age civilization when the Xel'Naga first discovered them on Aiur?

[Turalyon]

It's hard to picture it without actual dates but whatever the case, I think the chronology is always going to be out of whack with the speed at which some events tend to occur.

The Dark Templar have thus only existed for around 1000 years

What makes you say this? The Dark Templar as we know them now probably have their lineage tracing back to those Protoss that embraced their individuality when the Xel'Naga uplifted them. I guess you could say their current and formal hierarchical system is probably only around 1000 years but the mindset has been around even before the Aeon of Strife. I would think that the Aeon of Strife would have been waged by Protoss with similar mindsets to those of the current Dark Templar: that is, their focus on individualistic pursuit.

How long do you think it took for the Khala to spread across Aiur? The manual says unequivocally that within hundreds of years of Khas, the Conclave was firmly in power, and the Protoss had an interstellar empire. But since spacefaring technology and scientific knowledge was still leftover on Aiur from before the Aeon of Strife, and in space they didn't encounter any more intelligent races, this may have been pretty easy (also I guess that officially the Xel'Naga left warp gates to other worlds behind as well). Could the Protoss have spread into space before the Khala spread to tribes that were still entrenched in isolation, unaware that the Aeon of Strife had ended? Or as the psychic communal link grew, would it have drawn the tribes in?

I guess this would make sense. Their greatest aspect was this communal link. Once all Protoss were able to engage each other again by sharing all their thoughts and feelings, I'd imagine they'd quickly get their act together as a united people and accomplish great things. Having leftover tech to use would have just sped things along even quicker.

As to the question of pre-Khala Protoss "advancement", it's hard to say because we're still talking "Aeon of Strife" and, as the manual says, there were no records being kept/ a lost period of time of chaos. I doubt the "stone age" tech level description of the Aeon of Strife, too. It's hard to "devastate larger lands masses" with just sticks and stones. Then again, I'd imagine that this devastation would be due to their latent psionic powers rather than through conventional weapons/technology. I currently can't see why they would regress in technological standing because even if the Protoss suffered something akin to a nuclear holocaust (which is often cited as one thing that could "put us into the stone age"), there would have still been some "old-world" tech lying around to use. If the Protoss were ever at stone age level of tech, they would've had to have remained like that even before when the Xel'Naga came down to teach them. That's hard to believe since we also know the Xel'Naga left a tonne of tech and that all current Protoss tech is based off of it (apparently).

In another direction, at what point did the Protoss resume thinking of the Xel'Naga as gods? Khas obviously had come around to their belief in communal being over individualism, but the Dae'Uhl's standard of watching only from afar rather than directly appearing to the races they oversaw was their way of avoiding the Xel'Naga's mistake

This is a good question. I can only assume that by resorting to traditional means to control themselves as a people (Khas didn't really discover anything new about the Protoss - it was something old that they had collectively forgotten) and to regain their previous standing, one could surmise that this ritualistic behaviour would extend to how they would treat the Xel'Naga. Sure, the Dae'Uhl is a response to the Xel'Naga's mistakes but the idea itself was a parable that couldn't have happened were it not for the Xel'Naga. Maybe it came about due to the need to have an optimistic re-appraisal of their violent history.

Then in SC2 at least the Dark Templar show up calling them gods again. Perhaps with hundreds of years being based out of that ship, the Dark Templar regained their pre-Aeon of Strife respect for them? But it's also odd, because the Dark Templar's individualism and refusal to join with the other tribes were exactly what made the Xel'Naga conclude the Protoss were a failure and to leave them. But, the Dark Templar probably weren't aware of that, that knowledge being lost during the Aeon of Strife and never regained in the isolationist rogue tribes.

This is what probably bugs me most about Zeratul's representation in Sc2. As mentioned by both you and I, the Dark Templar have their roots back to before the Aeon of Strife - it was their shunning of the Xel'Naga as gods that made them stand-out. He is supposed to represent the individiualist/adventurer/free spirit that is not beholden to gods or fate and yet here he is being manipulated into action by those very things. Ugh.

[ragnarok]

I guess this would make sense. Their greatest aspect was this communal link. Once all Protoss were able to engage each other again by sharing all their thoughts and feelings, I'd imagine they'd quickly get their act together as a united people and accomplish great things. Having leftover tech to use would have just sped things along even quicker.

As to the question of pre-Khala Protoss "advancement", it's hard to say because we're still talking "Aeon of Strife" and, as the manual says, there were no records being kept/ a lost period of time of chaos. I doubt the "stone age" tech level description of the Aeon of Strife, too. It's hard to "devastate larger lands masses" with just sticks and stones. Then again, I'd imagine that this devastation would be due to their latent psionic powers rather than through conventional weapons/technology. I currently can't see why they would regress in technological standing because even if the Protoss suffered something akin to a nuclear holocaust (which is often cited as one thing that could "put us into the stone age"), there would have still been some "old-world" tech lying around to use. If the Protoss were ever at stone age level of tech, they would've had to have remained like that even before when the Xel'Naga came down to teach them. That's hard to believe since we also know the Xel'Naga left a tonne of tech and that all current Protoss tech is based off of it (apparently).

Once the Khala worked in the way of the sea of knowledge, info spreads faster. This is why at the VERY beginning, Khas had to travel from one planet to another to spread his religion and everything because the Khala wasn't as effective back then.

In terms of the pre-Khala advancement, then I guess it'll have to depend on the tribes and the stored relics there. Remember, according to the DT Saga, the Cave of Relics was used by the Shelak Tribe during the Aeon of Strife, and that was BEFORE the time of the Khala.

This is a good question. I can only assume that by resorting to traditional means to control themselves as a people (Khas didn't really discover anything new about the Protoss - it was something old that they had collectively forgotten) and to regain their previous standing, one could surmise that this ritualistic behaviour would extend to how they would treat the Xel'Naga. Sure, the Dae'Uhl is a response to the Xel'Naga's mistakes but the idea itself was a parable that couldn't have happened were it not for the Xel'Naga. Maybe it came about due to the need to have an optimistic re-appraisal of their violent history.

Before the Xel'Naga uplifting the Protoss people were relatively primitive, they probably had very little technology at all, though I'm not sure if they were to the point of cavemen of today or anything like that.

Thus by helping them create the civilization, it was why the Xel'Naga were worshipped in such a way, and the Protoss didn't know they were simply being prepared for the Xel'Naga cycle, hence why hundreds of Xel'Naga were killed by the Protoss when they left Aiur.

[Robear]

One possibility I can think of to try to reconcile the DT saga's complete lack of technology is that the more advanced tribes did maintain technology proficiency. But others fled into the mountains and jungles to avoid those mainstream tribes, and over the generations lost their power. The Shelak, which Khas was from, could have happened to be one of those, and thus Khas wouldn't have known about science.

It seems slightly unlikely given the other tribes' dominance in this scenario that they would have been receptive to some upstart Shelak, but I suppose the power of the psychic link would have been very persuasive, and then Khas could have learned about technology and such from them.

[Gradius]

Many if not most Protoss have been reduced to caveman levels of technology by the time Khas rediscovers the psychic link, according to the DT saga. Despite the Protoss' prior interest in science, even members of the tribe who safeguards leftover Xel'Naga technology have no knowledge of writing. Khas rediscovers the psychic link and reunifies the tribes through the Khala, and divides them into the Templar/Judicator/Khalai classes.

According to the DT saga they were always at a stone age level. Two protoss have a rock fight after the xel'naga depart. :P

The Conclave has concealed that some tribes still haven't embraced the Khala, and fear that those tribes' influence might "destroy all that Khas had accomplished." They order the Templar, led by Adun to destroy them. When he refuses, they pack the Rogue Tribes aboard an ancient Xel'Naga ship and exile them. The legend of them cutting off their nerve cords spreads throughout the Protoss, making them "hunted and feared by their own brethren." The exile happens around the 16th century CE, according to Raszagal's age (she was young during it, but there).

This is what I don't get. If the protoss conquered hundreds of worlds, why did they have to use a xel'naga ship? Couldn't they have used one of their own? Perhaps they relied on warp gates.

The Dark Templar have thus only existed for around 1000 years, which could be anywhere from a couple generations to, I dunno, 10 if they reproduce at age 100. I'd guess they can reproduce around 200? That would be enough generations to establish a tradition of Dark Templar assassins and experiment with Dark Archons and all that. Do we have any indication of their generation length that I'm unaware of, though?

They can live over 1000 years. They're specifically noted to not be a prolific race, so reproducing more than once might be kind of odd, or not part of their culture.

At some point after this, the Conclave turns its attention to the rogue tribes, but wants to destroy them, rather than trying to convert them. So it seems like this was a considerable amount of time after the Khala's initial spread, and well after Khas' death, although we don't know when exactly that was. Let's say 1000 years between Khas creating the Khala/the Protoss resuming use of technology, and the exiling of the Rogue Tribes. Then it's another thousand years until the game starts. That's only like 3 Protoss lifetimes! Although presumably Protoss technology and civilization could advance faster than humans', due to the psychic link facilitating combining everyone's experience and knowledge.

This is the timeline according to the DT saga:

500 BC - The khala is established. This is when protoss start expanding throughout the galaxy again.
1500 - Rogue tribes exiled
2500 - SC1

In another direction, at what point did the Protoss resume thinking of the Xel'Naga as gods? Khas obviously had come around to their belief in communal being over individualism, but the Dae'Uhl's standard of watching only from afar rather than directly appearing to the races they oversaw was their way of avoiding the Xel'Naga's mistakes.

Most likely after they rediscovered the khala and xel'naga artifacts.

The Conclave's banishment of the Rogue Tribes in a still-working Xel'Naga ship to cover up their existence suggests that, to the Conclave, that Xel'Naga artifact was not terribly important to them. Then in SC2 at least the Dark Templar show up calling them gods again. Perhaps with hundreds of years being based out of that ship, the Dark Templar regained their pre-Aeon of Strife respect for them? But it's also odd, because the Dark Templar's individualism and refusal to join with the other tribes were exactly what made the Xel'Naga conclude the Protoss were a failure and to leave them. But, the Dark Templar probably weren't aware of that, that knowledge being lost during the Aeon of Strife and never regained in the isolationist rogue tribes.

See above - the dark templar would have been exiled long after the xel'naga artifacts were rediscovered.

Are you sure they were at a stone age civilization when the Xel'Naga first discovered them on Aiur?

The DT saga pretty much says so.

What makes you say this? The Dark Templar as we know them now probably have their lineage tracing back to those Protoss that embraced their individuality when the Xel'Naga uplifted them. I guess you could say their current and formal hierarchical system is probably only around 1000 years but the mindset has been around even before the Aeon of Strife. I would think that the Aeon of Strife would have been waged by Protoss with similar mindsets to those of the current Dark Templar: that is, their focus on individualistic pursuit.

Adun was basically the first guy to figure out how to use void energy (1500 AD). The "mindset" of individualism has nothing to do with being a dark templar or not.

It's hard to "devastate larger lands masses" with just sticks and stones. Then again, I'd imagine that this devastation would be due to their latent psionic powers rather than through conventional weapons/technology.

The DT saga basically retconned this part of the manual. They didn't have psionics either because they were out of touch with the khala. It was basically caveman on caveman violence. Frickin stupid if you ask me, but that's it. :P

This is a good question. I can only assume that by resorting to traditional means to control themselves as a people (Khas didn't really discover anything new about the Protoss - it was something old that they had collectively forgotten) and to regain their previous standing, one could surmise that this ritualistic behaviour would extend to how they would treat the Xel'Naga. Sure, the Dae'Uhl is a response to the Xel'Naga's mistakes but the idea itself was a parable that couldn't have happened were it not for the Xel'Naga. Maybe it came about due to the need to have an optimistic re-appraisal of their violent history.

It's explained in the DT saga. Khas was the first one to figure out how to translate the information in the artifacts. Most lost knowledge would have been rediscovered by then (500 BC).

[Nissa]

I'm gonna be that person, Gradius, but actually Starcraft began in December 2499.

Well, unless you meant that the DT Saga said it was 2500.