Confess your Nerditude

[Nissa]

While the definition of religion is unclear, I have rarely heard it be so limited as to only relate to deities. Buddhism is probably the best example of a (in most of its sects) godless religion, but it is not the only one. The Khala is definitely a subject of religious reverence among the Protoss, and while religious terminology permeates the Protoss culture, Aldaris is also religious in a spiritual sense - his and the Conclave's focus on Tassadar rather than the Zerg is about their prioritisation of threats: the Zerg can kill the Protoss and destroy their bodies, but Tassadar and the Dark Templar can destroy the unity and identity of the Protoss - their 'souls'. He also represents organised religion, unquestioned and unquestionable authority by divine mandate, defining orthodoxy and branding disagreements as heresy, that sort of thing.

While I'll leave your other points alone (there's no real need to bicker about a difference of opinion, which isn't that different anyway), but quite frankly you're framing it a lot more religious than it is. Words don't religion make, or else all the crap the media says about religion would be true just because they say it. Just because Aldaris frames it that way doesn't make it that way. Clearly, and you brought up this point yourself in the long version, the difference between the Khalai and the Nerazim sparks from the Aeon of Strife, not any real religious differences.

[FanaticTemplar]

Words don't religion make

Of course, but then that's why I didn't focus on nomenclature: "while religious terminology permeates the Protoss culture, Aldaris is also religious in a spiritual sense [...] He also represents organised religion"

[TheEconomist]

Well, this is a first. A topic not about StarCraft hijacked by discussion about StarCraft. Usually the other way around.

[ragnarok]

Of course, but then that's why I didn't focus on nomenclature: "while religious terminology permeates the Protoss culture, Aldaris is also religious in a spiritual sense [...] He also represents organised religion"

And that of a fanatical belief that blinded himself to reality. It took the loss of Aiur just get him to begin to look otherwise.

[Nissa]

And that of a fanatical belief that blinded himself to reality. It took the loss of Aiur just get him to begin to look otherwise.

My point is, the belief is not religious in nature. People are capable of having fanatic beliefs that aren't at all religious in nature, and quite frankly, the only thing that makes them "religious" in Aldaris' case is words. Had he used different words, there would be no connotation at all.

Oh, and technically this was supposed to be a Starcraft related thread, but eh. Going off topic can be fun. Lol, forgot to mention that I'm writing a journal fanfiction of Aldaris suddenly appearing on Earth, and me and a few friends have to keep him secret.

[Gradius]

In SC1 I always took the protoss as being more duty-minded than religious per se. They were motivated by the dictates of the dae'uhl, a personal responsibility to watch over the lesser races of the galaxy, a mantle that they inherited from the xel'naga.

But nobody can really deny statements like:

"May the gods watch over you."

or

"Are you truly so blinded by your vaunted religion?"

But this was to reinforce the Inquisition vibe that the Conclave had going. It's not really the entire point of the race like we have in SC2.

[ragnarok]

My point is, the belief is not religious in nature. People are capable of having fanatic beliefs that aren't at all religious in nature, and quite frankly, the only thing that makes them "religious" in Aldaris' case is words. Had he used different words, there would be no connotation at all.

Oh, and technically this was supposed to be a Starcraft related thread, but eh. Going off topic can be fun. Lol, forgot to mention that I'm writing a journal fanfiction of Aldaris suddenly appearing on Earth, and me and a few friends have to keep him secret.

You're not the only fanfic writer around here, Nissa. Nor are you the only one with an SC fic posted on ff.net

The point is I just don't think the rest of the Ara Tribe learned. Look at Nahaan's actions in the DT Saga Twilight.

[Turalyon]

In SC1 I always took the protoss as being more duty-minded than religious per se. They were motivated by the dictates of the dae'uhl, a personal responsibility to watch over the lesser races of the galaxy, a mantle that they inherited from the xel'naga.

But nobody can really deny statements like:

"May the gods watch over you."

or

"Are you truly so blinded by your vaunted religion?"

But this was to reinforce the Inquisition vibe that the Conclave had going. It's not really the entire point of the race like we have in SC2.

It all depends on whether one defines religion in general terms as a "belief system with strict rules" or not. If so, anything can be considered religious (or at the least mocked as being) for those who hold these beliefs tightly.

However, I would think that religion would inform the current Protoss to some degree given that they did meet and interact with their creators only for their own weakness to cause them to leave (how many other species can truly boast that actuality without resorting to dogma?). That the Dark Templar still exist are essentially representative of the cause of this break-up between creator and creeation, it's understandable that any "proper" modern Protoss would have to regiment the way they think and act to avoid another potential cataclysm. The religious connotations are there and they still exert some long-standing cultural impact (not necessarily a religious impact).

The "May the gods watch after you" is most likely just an artifact of their past religious nature that pervades through their culture much in the way we say "My God!" in surprise or use similarly religious figures in curse words. As to Zeratul's comment about the Conclave's "vaunted religion", he's using religion in a disparaging tone which has an appropriate thematic and cultural tie back to the initial break that caused the Aeon of Strife and what essentially gave rise to the modern Dark Templar - that is, the individualism of the Protoss. To such an "individual", any organised system that one adheres themselves to would be deemed as restricting and ancient - a religion.

Being religious shouldn't necessarily be a "bad" thing for the Protoss, it's just that it's overwrought and applied without much thought in Sc2 (wooooh, prophecy! Portents of doom! etc). Sc1 had a much better balance - you could argue it either way and both have equally solid arguments for whether the Protoss were religious or not.

[Nissa]

It all depends on whether one defines religion in general terms as a "belief system with strict rules" or not. If so, anything can be considered religious (or at the least mocked as being) for those who hold these beliefs tightly.

However, I would think that religion would inform the current Protoss to some degree given that they did meet and interact with their creators only for their own weakness to cause them to leave (how many other species can truly boast that actuality without resorting to dogma?). That the Dark Templar still exist are essentially representative of the cause of this break-up between creator and creeation, it's understandable that any "proper" modern Protoss would have to regiment the way they think and act to avoid another potential cataclysm. The religious connotations are there and they still exert some long-standing cultural impact (not necessarily a religious impact).

The "May the gods watch after you" is most likely just an artifact of their past religious nature that pervades through their culture much in the way we say "My God!" in surprise or use similarly religious figures in curse words. As to Zeratul's comment about the Conclave's "vaunted religion", he's using religion in a disparaging tone which has an appropriate thematic and cultural tie back to the initial break that caused the Aeon of Strife and what essentially gave rise to the modern Dark Templar - that is, the individualism of the Protoss. To such an "individual", any organised system that one adheres themselves to would be deemed as restricting and ancient - a religion.

Being religious shouldn't necessarily be a "bad" thing for the Protoss, it's just that it's overwrought and applied without much thought in Sc2 (wooooh, prophecy! Portents of doom! etc). Sc1 had a much better balance - you could argue it either way and both have equally solid arguments for whether the Protoss were religious or not.

You make several good points, but I wasn't saying the Protoss aren't religious, I was saying the conflict with the Dark Templar isn't necessarily religious. The Protoss themselves definitely have some sort of pantheon going on, and it'd be interesting to know how similar/dissimilar the DTs versus Khala the two pantheons are. I've always imagined their conflict was sort of based on Ireland and Britain's, and their shared common background means the two have very similar systems of gods.

Then again, if their "gods" are the Xel'Naga, I'm tempted to give up on the franchise. That just seems so dumb, but it's hard to believe that at least some of the Protoss wouldn't honor the Xel'Naga this way.

[DemolitionSquid]

Saying the Protoss "are" or "are not" religious is silly. Just like us, they are split into many different groups and you can't lump them all together. What we can say for certain is that many Protoss do worship gods in some capacity, and that those gods are more often than not the Xel'Naga who left behind visible signs and technology proving they existed at some point. General Protoss religious reverence is far closer to ancestor worship or even Norse mortal demi-god pantheon theology than it is to the belief in any kind of omnipotence like the Abrahamic religions.

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Saying the Protoss "are" or "are not" religious is silly. Just like us, they are split into many different groups and you can't lump them all together. What we can say for certain is that many Protoss do worship gods in some capacity, and that those gods are more often than not the Xel'Naga who left behind visible signs and technology proving they existed at some point. General Protoss religious reverence is far closer to ancestor worship or even Norse mortal demi-god pantheon theology than it is to the belief in any kind of omnipotence like the Abrahamic religions.