SCII Legacy of the Void

[Crazio]

And this is why by the end of HotS, he should be torn in another way: if he wasn't willing to let her go back then, he shouldn't be willing to just let go of everything she did over the years of infestation. I'm sure Kerrigan already knows Raynor is thinking just that.

Wasn't there something in the story line that explained that Kerrigan didnt do those things, she did during the years of infestion, out of free will. She was manipulated or something like that in to doing so?

I mean, when in WoL Raynor used that artifact on her to get rid of the zerg infestation, we got a whole new Kerrigan.

[Visions of Khas]

Wasn't there something in the story line that explained that Kerrigan didnt do those things, she did during the years of infestion, out of free will. She was manipulated or something like that in to doing so?

I mean, when in WoL Raynor used that artifact on her to get rid of the zerg infestation, we got a whole new Kerrigan.

Yeah, there were implications that the Queen of Blades was a separate entity from Sarah Kerrigan, in a paltry attempt to make Kerrigan appear more human and not beyond salvation.

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Wasn't there something in the story line that explained that Kerrigan didnt do those things, she did during the years of infestion, out of free will. She was manipulated or something like that in to doing so?

I mean, when in WoL Raynor used that artifact on her to get rid of the zerg infestation, we got a whole new Kerrigan.

Yeah, there were implications that the Queen of Blades was a separate entity from Sarah Kerrigan, in a paltry attempt to make Kerrigan appear more human and not beyond salvation.

[RetlocLive]

Yeah, there were implications that the Queen of Blades was a separate entity from Sarah Kerrigan, in a paltry attempt to make Kerrigan appear more human and not beyond salvation.

I still refuse to believe that this was ever the intention of the original SC/BW writers and was a shoehorned @sspull plot-device by the WoL writers to get Kerrigan back on the good side in the least amount of work as possible.

[Gradius]

Wasn't there a Q&A which confirmed that there is no dual-personality syndrome with Kerrigan and that they are in fact the same person? Because this would clash with what we were shown in the game, with a human Sarah telling Jim "don't give up!" at the last second before the artifact detonated.

[Turalyon]

Well right now we just don't have enough info on Amon. We don't even know what his powers are, it's frustrating because we can only speculate and have no concrete evidence.

We have enough to go on to make an assumption/get an impression. This counts above anything else since the precise nature of his powers are just petty details and minutiae.

It's hard to say if Amon is going to be inflated or not. You can't use the "In Utter Darkness" mission as reference because the Protoss had already killed Kerrigan in that future, and therefore Amon didn't HAVE to do anything more.

I think it's pretty definitive that Amon is inflated (much like how Kerrigan is inflated to perceived importance in Sc2) - it's not just one mission but the whole Zeratul arc in WoL is an exercise in propping up Amon at the expense of the Overmind. Also, we can use those missions as a reference because their only purpose is to show that there's this "greater evil" at work.

I mean ok sure we all knew Raynor wanted Kerrigan back, but still.

I didn't know Raynor wanted that all. In terms of game continuity, the default position that most people had going into it would be that Raynor would want nothing to do with her.

That scene with Raynor looking at the picture can be interpreted as either Raynor just reminiscing about what could've been or that he still wanted/will always want Kerrigan. It's debatable which of the two is more appropriate but what with Metzen going on about it and how Sc2 is shaping up, I suppose it's meant to be interpreted as the latter. This is problematic in that if that is so, there is a distinct jarring between continuity between BW and WoL.

On the other hand, if we were to interpret it as the latter, it could have gone either way with the continuance of the "love story" being a possible alternative. The problem with Sc2 going down the love story route so far here, is that it pours on the saccharine and makes it out as if it's the purest and most OK thing when it really should say something (at the least) about the twisted nature and underlying psychosis of both Raynor and Kerrigan feeling the way they do about each other despite all the stuff that they've done to each other.

Wasn't there a Q&A which confirmed that there is no dual-personality syndrome with Kerrigan and that they are in fact the same person? Because this would clash with what we were shown in the game, with a human Sarah telling Jim "don't give up!" at the last second before the artifact detonated.

Jeez, they can't even be consistent within their own iteration of the game story!

It's hard to guess now whether the Sc2 story was planned or "pantsed". Either way, it's clear from this that their writing is a bad example of whichever method one thinks they're using.

[ragnarok]

Yeah, there were implications that the Queen of Blades was a separate entity from Sarah Kerrigan, in a paltry attempt to make Kerrigan appear more human and not beyond salvation.

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Yeah, there were implications that the Queen of Blades was a separate entity from Sarah Kerrigan, in a paltry attempt to make Kerrigan appear more human and not beyond salvation.

And that turned out to be total BS in HotS, which wasn't implemented at all.

It would have been better if Blizzard could have pulled it off in HotS, but they didn't due to the whole revenge matter. That's why I want to see a book for what happens to bridge HotS and LotV.

I think it's pretty definitive that Amon is inflated (much like how Kerrigan is inflated to perceived importance in Sc2) - it's not just one mission but the whole Zeratul arc in WoL is an exercise in propping up Amon at the expense of the Overmind. Also, we can use those missions as a reference because their only purpose is to show that there's this "greater evil" at work.

We'll see. It's hard to tell from ONLY the "In Utter Darkness" mission

As for what Raynor wanted, well the reminiscing scene was the thought if he had reacted sooner, he could have saved her.

Remember, ultimately Raynor had been torn on what to do: one part swearing to fulfill the promise he made Fenix back during the BW, the other part just refused to let her go.

And that tearing continued right up until Valerian offered him the alliance for the Char invasion.

[Turalyon]

As for what Raynor wanted, well the reminiscing scene was the thought if he had reacted sooner, he could have saved her.

This would only be true and for the better if the game itself didn't imply at the end that what Raynor really wanted was the impossible love of some murderous, psychotic woman... and then blithely continue as if it was normal, realistic, heroic and/or without consequence.

I could've lived with Raynor doing what he did was really out of some misplaced sense of shame/survivor's guilt and/or that he's just batshit insane for still loving Kerrigan - in the end, we get no sense of either.

Remember, ultimately Raynor had been torn on what to do: one part swearing to fulfill the promise he made Fenix back during the BW, the other part just refused to let her go.

That's debatable. The way WoL is structured, you don't get a sense of Raynor having any sort of conflict or one that flows in a naturalistic way.

If one hadn't played or been aware of BW, it's hard to know from WoL alone that Raynor would actually intend and want to kill Kerrigan if given the chance. The nostalgia that we see would imply that he wouldn't. It's worse if you know BW occurred because of the abrupt change/inconsistency. So, no matter which way you look at it, the default position of Raynor being potentially open to any idea of saving Kerrigan at all from the start of WoL is a bit ad hoc, especially when coming straight from BW since his default position from there would that he'd never be open to any idea of saving Kerrigan.

[ragnarok]

This would only be true and for the better if the game itself didn't imply at the end that what Raynor really wanted was the impossible love of some murderous, psychotic woman... and then blithely continue as if it was normal, realistic, heroic and/or without consequence.

I could've lived with Raynor doing what he did was really out of some misplaced sense of shame/survivor's guilt and/or that he's just batshit insane for still loving Kerrigan - in the end, we get no sense of either.

Which, to me, is Blizzard's excuse to keep things vague so that it's open to interpretation. I still say it's the former since sheer insanity wouldn't go with it. Then again, Matt and the other Raiders DID feel he was crazy for this alliance with Valerian to invade Char.

So, no matter which way you look at it, the default position of Raynor being potentially open to any idea of saving Kerrigan at all from the start of WoL is a bit ad hoc, especially when coming straight from BW since his default position from there would that he'd never be open to any idea of saving Kerrigan.

I think to that end you may want to read the book Flashpoint in order to understand the situation better. Trust me, the games WoL and HotS alone just don't give enough info, which matches quite well with what you said before in that the SC2 series can't seem to stand very well without the books.

[Turalyon]

Which, to me, is Blizzard's excuse to keep things vague so that it's open to interpretation.

I used to think this was true in a good way but given what we have now and what I was saying above, it's actually clear that things are not really vague or open to interpretation. What's worse, is that their flip-flopping QAs make it obvious that they have no idea themselves. No wonder the story is a mess.

I still say it's the former since sheer insanity wouldn't go with it. Then again, Matt and the other Raiders DID feel he was crazy for this alliance with Valerian to invade Char.

I'm saying it's neither that or the other. We should be able to intuit it one way or another not rely on guessing or inclination - especially if it's crucial to/about the main core plot. The only thing that we can truly intuit from Sc2 as whole so far is that Raynor really loves Kerrigan and will do anything for her despite no matter what has happened previously. If this is indeed the angle, then there should have been some sort of indictment/counterbalanced perspective on the sheer insanity of feeling that way and basing ones actions on it. The crew just saying something (and then being ultimately brushed off) is not enough especially when the universe then goes on to bends itself backwards to prove that nothing can beat the power of love.

I think to that end you may want to read the book Flashpoint in order to understand the situation better. Trust me, the games WoL and HotS alone just don't give enough info, which matches quite well with what you said before in that the SC2 series can't seem to stand very well without the books.

I understand it fine. As I said, it's not required because it just feeds into the hindsight bias of knowing that Raynor and Kerrigan will love each for ever no matter what. I knew that just looking at WoL and HotS, I don't need further extrapolation/details of retroactive continuity to prove something that retroactively happened already.

The problem I'm highlighting here is that this sort of thing sets a bad precedent that anything can happen and that literally nothing in the past can be taken for granted. It becomes a free for all where things like Raynor being an amnesiac time-travelling future human/alien thing could realistically happen because it never said he couldn't be in the past. There is no concrete feeling of consequence to whatever happens now. The implementation of Raynor/Kerrigan always having loved each other no matter what is just symptomatic of this greater problem.

[Visions of Khas]

And that [Sarah/Queen of Blades dual personae] turned out to be total BS in HotS, which wasn't implemented at all.

YEah, I know. I was disappointed. It was implied we would be shown several things in HotS: Kerrigan revealing her past as the Queen of Blades and thereby uncover information regarding Amon and his plans; and Kerrigan's battle against a darker side to her. The Gollum/Smaegol internal struggle plot would have given a lot more depth to Kerrigan's evolution. Perhaps Sarah's acceptance of the Primal powers of Zerus would have vanquished the Queen of Blades persona, but in its dying moments the Queen of Blades would claim victory over Sarah by accepting something other and darker into herself.


Oh the missed possibilities.