SCII Legacy of the Void

[ragnarok]

Part of the attraction to the romance dynamic in such stories is that many pay as much attention to the lead-up to the romance to the actual romance itself. Before WoL, the romance had foreshadowing sure but it was debatable one way or another. Then we have WoL just come along and just dumped the romance on us as if it always there. I'm not saying romance can't and shouldn't work in sci-fi (indeed, I tend to like good mash-ups of the sci-fi genre) it's just that in Sc2 case, it's implementation is poor. Compare this to the romance of Crichton and Aeryn Sun in Farscape - that's how you do a sci-fi romance story!

Yeah I haven't read much sci-fi novels, don't have as much experience.

Sure, but we can't just assume the scepticism and hate will be bordering on the level that the public would have solely for Mengsk Senior. Valerian has done everything he can to distance himself from Mengsk and the public know this since I believe the EU has the same vibe. Valerian took a lot of affirmative action in the eyes of the public than Mengsk ever did and since the public generally put great stock in visible actions, Valerian should have no trouble believing in him. I'd (and you'd too it seems) still doubt him just on principle and the nature of the sco-fi universe, but Blizz strongly implies that he's the "real deal".

That's my hope too. I REALLY hope Blizzard doesn't use the cynical approach, and we find out in LotV that he's an even BIGGER monster than his father, and then Blizzard tells the fans, "Ah, but we didn't lie to you. We said Valerian would be different than his father, so making him even MORE evil, it still qualifies as different."

Tell that to Blizzard. As far as they're concerned, morality is black and white to them now. HotS gives the distinct impression that she would actually care if the Terrans in general are killed now that she's more "human" than previously/retained her humanity despite reinfestation. Her only beef is with Mengsk and those that follow him - and now that problem is gone, she's free to care for the Terrans because we are lead to believe (well, Bliz seems to be trying to force that) that she has the capability now.

That's hard to say. Though her problem was with Mengsk, she still didn't exactly see the Dominion much different.

This has already been shown in real life (since I'm a WWII fanatic, I'll refer to that):

In 1945, when the US troops advanced into Germany and discovered the concentration and death camps, it gave them the impression that there WERE no good Germans in Germany. To the US soldier, every German in the country was just like Hitler.

This is somewhat shown in WoL and HotS as well. Yes, you can argue that Kerrigan DID give Warfield the chance to leave Char (this was even BEFORE destroying his base), but that's still an exception. Overall she didn't have the slightest hesitation in killing Dominion military targets. As far as she was concerned, the Dominion military isn't too much different than Mengsk.

Raynor, on the other hand, has it even WORSE than Kerrigan did. For the 4 years between BW and WoL, she mostly withdrew to Char to build up the broods. Raynor, on the other hand, had returned to trying to overthrow Mengsk, which in turn caused him to be demonized by the media (we still saw that in WoL), and ruthlessly hunted by the Dominion military.

This was still the case in WoL for being hunted by them, and thus after so many years, Raynor feels the Dominion military is just like Mengsk.

Only during the Char invasion did this view change because the Raiders and Dominion worked together, and Raynor risked his life to save Dominion troops. That marked a point where Raynor finally began to see the Dominion troops as something OTHER than "Mengsk's puppets."

However, in Flashpoint and HotS, this view quickly changed back as he was once again hunted by the Dominion military, which gave Raynor the view that Dominion soldiers just blindly follow Mengsk's orders without thought and all that.

So, I just don't think he'll see it that way.

Fair enough, but it still won't detract from the Zerg, Protoss or Terrans working individually against and to spite Amon. Sure, it may not be represented as a typical mutual "arm in arm" alliance, but it's an "alliance" in the sense that they're likely all going against one greater evil individually for a mutual benefit.

Oh really? And what happens AFTER the alliance has served its purpose? In BW, the moment Kerrigan didn't need the Protoss anymore, she backstabbed them. The same happened to the Raiders on Korhal.

Which means THIS time, the Protoss aren't even going to bother thinking that an alliance would work out, they'll expect betrayal the moment Amon is beaten.

[Turalyon]

Yeah I haven't read much sci-fi novels, don't have as much experience.

Farscape isn't a sci-fi novel, it's an awesome but oldish (1999) sci-fi show.

I REALLY hope Blizzard doesn't use the cynical approach, and we find out in LotV that he's an even BIGGER monster than his father, and then Blizzard tells the fans, "Ah, but we didn't lie to you. We said Valerian would be different than his father, so making him even MORE evil, it still qualifies as different."

Not only that, it will feel like deliberate character shenanigans. If they wanted to make someone even more "eviller", they should've just kept Mengsk Snr around for that job. And to think that Blizz got rid of Mengsk was because they though his story had run its course.

That's hard to say. Though her problem was with Mengsk, she still didn't exactly see the Dominion much different.

This is somewhat shown in WoL and HotS as well. Yes, you can argue that Kerrigan DID give Warfield the chance to leave Char (this was even BEFORE destroying his base), but that's still an exception. Overall she didn't have the slightest hesitation in killing Dominion military targets. As far as she was concerned, the Dominion military isn't too much different than Mengsk.

The Dominion is only part of the Terran population. Kerrigan does not see every Terran as the Dominion. She was willing to help Valerian evacuate the civilians on Korhal afterall. So, if the entire Terran population were at risk of being extinguished by Amon, I don't think that this Kerrigan we have now, will let that slide.

Raynor notices this "goodness" in her - hence his return to help the attack on Korhal. Since he's also pretty chummy with Valerian (who also knows Kerrigan's capacity to show compassion for the general Terran population) and consequently has some supposed unopposed rule over a larger amount of the Terran armed forces now that Mengsk Snr (he is the sole root cause for the animosity between all these characters) is gone, the possibility of an alliance between Zerg and Terran is there like it or not.

And what happens AFTER the alliance has served its purpose? In BW, the moment Kerrigan didn't need the Protoss anymore, she backstabbed them. The same happened to the Raiders on Korhal.

Well, given their recent history, I would reckon this "alliance" will not be in the same vain as we had in BW where there forces were intermingling together. I'd assume that the races will be working individually where they'd keep enough distance from each other to avoid incidents but perhaps co-ordinating their assault against Amon because they know that each race individually cannot defeat Amon alone.

As to what will happen after Amon is killed, I wouldn't be surprise that the Protoss may take advantage of this situation to take the initiative to do some back-stabbing of their own and even attempt to kill Kerrigan themselves (she's not necessary now since the prophecy is moot with Amon's death) and to try and retake some of their lost heritage. Kerrigan, being more "good" now and in love with Raynor, drops her guard and finally falls victim to the Protoss. Raynor and Valerian, seeing this betrayal from the Protoss start building up animosity toward the Protoss finally giving a proper cause for PvT. The Zerg, having to resort to their Queens for guidance, band together and convince themselves the Terrans and Protoss are untrustworthy and both responsible for Kerrigan's death. It ends as it began, a 3 way melee between the races. Is it a downer ending or an optimistic "getting back to the roots of Sc" ending? Your choice.

[ragnarok]

Not only that, it will feel like deliberate character shenanigans. If they wanted to make someone even more "eviller", they should've just kept Mengsk Snr around for that job. And to think that Blizz got rid of Mengsk was because they though his story had run its course.

And I'd be pissed that they wasted Valerian's character. Remember, Valerian was first introduced to the SC universe back on May 22, 2007, when the Dark Templar Saga Part 1: Firstborn was written by Christie Golden.

Once LotV comes out in 2015, if we find out Valerian is evil, a lot of people are going to ask Blizzard, "You had 8 years to develop Valerian's character and the best you could do was turn him into his father's knock off?"

The Dominion is only part of the Terran population. Kerrigan does not see every Terran as the Dominion. She was willing to help Valerian evacuate the civilians on Korhal afterall. So, if the entire Terran population were at risk of being extinguished by Amon, I don't think that this Kerrigan we have now, will let that slide.

That's not how I saw it. You have to remember, the only reason she landed the swarm OUTSIDE Augustgrad was because Valerian asked her to, the same was true of the civilian centers in the last HotS mission.

To me, this all had something to do with the "Believe in Me" cutscene.

Prior to that, Kerrigan didn't hesitate one bit when it came to killing Dominion military targets. Only on Char did she give Warfield a warning to get off the planet immediately, but the guy didn't listen.

But other than that, when she ordered the Broodmothers to destroy Dominion industrial worlds, along with attacking Dominion targets for the evolution missions, there was no hesitation. Granted, she probably regretted it a little because of all the civilian casualties, but in her POV, this was necessary in order for the Korhal invasion and to get to Mengsk.

But after the "Believe in Me" cutscene and Raynor's accusation of the millions she slaughtered, I think something changed in her. It was then that Kerrigan realized that from OTHERS' POV, she hasn't changed at all, since she was still killing anyone in the way just to get to Mengsk. And that means from other people's POV, it would be interpreted as she was willing to kill ALL of humanity just to get her revenge.

Now, if you recall, RIGHT BEFORE the Korhal invasion started, Kerrigan contacted Valerian on the matter. Kerrigan told him that once the invasion was over, the Dominion people would need a leader. That was BEFORE Valerian asked her to land the swarm outside the city.

That means from her POV, the Korhal invasion would be the last bloodshed. Yes, the casualties would be horrible, but she would NOT kill all of humanity just for her revenge. Once the carnage was finished, she would leave Korhal immediately, allowing Valerian to pick up the pieces.

As to what will happen after Amon is killed, I wouldn't be surprise that the Protoss may take advantage of this situation to take the initiative to do some back-stabbing of their own and even attempt to kill Kerrigan themselves (she's not necessary now since the prophecy is moot with Amon's death) and to try and retake some of their lost heritage. Kerrigan, being more "good" now and in love with Raynor, drops her guard and finally falls victim to the Protoss. Raynor and Valerian, seeing this betrayal from the Protoss start building up animosity toward the Protoss finally giving a proper cause for PvT. The Zerg, having to resort to their Queens for guidance, band together and convince themselves the Terrans and Protoss are untrustworthy and both responsible for Kerrigan's death. It ends as it began, a 3 way melee between the races. Is it a downer ending or an optimistic "getting back to the roots of Sc" ending? Your choice.

Oh I can see the Protoss doing the backstabbing right away on this. You have to remember Zeratul's actions in HotS. He didn't say he forgave Kerrigan for what happened to Raszagal, which means she knows there WILL be retribution coming.

Kerrigan even admitted to Zeratul that everyone has to pay for their actions someday, that includes herself. Granted she was vague on the matter, but you know what I mean.

It's really hard to say, since we don't know if she can be deinfested again. Raynor would want that, but he has no evidence that it could work. That was exactly the same situation back in WoL, since he knew all along the artifact might not deinfest her at all.

And with regards to the ending, I see Blizzard doing the following: just have Amon win in the end, and then tell the SC fans that all those things they've been hinting about giving everyone a fighting chance to beat him, "that was just us messing with your heads the whole time."

[Turalyon]

Yes, the casualties would be horrible, but she would NOT kill all of humanity just for her revenge. Once the carnage was finished, she would leave Korhal immediately, allowing Valerian to pick up the pieces.

That's what I thought I implied.

By the end of HotS, she is no longer a homicidal maniac and has demonstrated that to Valerian and Raynor. There is possibility of the Zerg and Terran joining to fight Amon is now open.

It's really hard to say, since we don't know if she can be deinfested again. Raynor would want that, but he has no evidence that it could work. That was exactly the same situation back in WoL, since he knew all along the artifact might not deinfest her at all.

Well, the artifact actually did de-infest her (that little caption at the end confirms it) and even if it didn't, it was enough for Raynor to forget all those bad things she did as the QoB (). If Blizz intends to go back down to the gritty nature of Sc, they'll most likely kill her as some form of "redemption = death" thing but not before making peace with Raynor and declaring their love in some form or another. Either way, I have my brain soap ready!

And with regards to the ending, I see Blizzard doing the following: just have Amon win in the end, and then tell the SC fans that all those things they've been hinting about giving everyone a fighting chance to beat him, "that was just us messing with your heads the whole time."

Hmmm, this would be tantamount to a middle finger to the audience from Blizz because it more or less declares that the whole of Sc2 was a waste of time in terms of narrative and a trilogy. Having to wait 12 years for Sc2 and another 6 years for the story to not even complete (if Sc3 does happen, it will continue with what exists of the three races trying to fight the Hybrids and Amon... again) and worse, mean ultimately nothing would be just as much a slap in the face as saying "all of Sc was a dream from Doran Routhe on the eve of sending out his Supercarriers".

[ragnarok]

Hmmm, this would be tantamount to a middle finger to the audience from Blizz because it more or less declares that the whole of Sc2 was a waste of time in terms of narrative and a trilogy. Having to wait 12 years for Sc2 and another 6 years for the story to not even complete (if Sc3 does happen, it will continue with what exists of the three races trying to fight the Hybrids and Amon... again) and worse, mean ultimately nothing would be just as much a slap in the face as saying "all of Sc was a dream from Doran Routhe on the eve of sending out his Supercarriers".

Actually, that's EXACTLY what I feel Blizzard would do, if they tell us LotV would have an ending you NEVER saw coming.

And then at the end of LotV we find out the WHOLE SC series since the beginning of SC1 was actually just a dream from a crack addict from today. And then Blizzard would tell the fans, "Ah, but we DIDN'T lie to you. That WAS an ending you never saw coming, wasn't it?"

By the end of HotS, she is no longer a homicidal maniac and has demonstrated that to Valerian and Raynor. There is possibility of the Zerg and Terran joining to fight Amon is now open.

In all honesty, an alliance between the terrans and Zerg isn't really that hard if you think about it.

From the "In Utter Darkness" mission, we only knew that the terran race was the first to be killed, but it didn't explain which race was the first to get HIT.

But since Kerrigan's actions have shredded the Dominion military, the terrans have almost nothing left to defend themselves with if Amon chooses to attack them.

In addition, when Amon made his plans for universal conquest, those plans were made millions of years ago, LONG before the terrans arrived in the Koprulu Sector. Thus dealing with the terrans hadn't exactly been part of his plans, so it'd make sense to deal with the enemy he doesn't know right away.

Not to mention the fact that terran weapons seem to be least effective against the hybrids, and that means by the end of HotS, the terran species is the easiest to kill off.

If that happens, with so little military power left, Valerian would be forced to rely on Raynor for evacuating civilians from areas under hybrid attack, something Raynor has been used to since SC1 when the Zerg attacked Mar Sara, before he even joined with the Sons of Korhal.

However, Raynor's actions would undoubtedly attract Kerrigan's attention, and she has NO intent of letting him risk his life like that again, not when she actually can protect him this time.

Once Amon sees that, it'll amount to only 2 possibilities: either Kerrigan has realized her swarm needs allies to beat him, or there's something in the terran race she still cares about. As time passes, the latter will become more and more apparent.

Thus once Amon discovers the bond they share, the only way Kerrigan will be able to protect Raynor is by keeping him in close proximity with the swarm. Otherwise, Amon would just keep targeting him in order to force her out. This would mark another alliance between the Raiders and the swarm.

But that's not going to achieve anything, because Raynor is considered "the people's hero". Therefore, he would never standby and watch as entire terran worlds are slaughtered by the hybrids. Therefore, Amon could just keep targeting the terran worlds, knowing full well that Raynor would do everything in his power to save innocent lives, which in turn would draw Kerrigan out.

Once that happens, Raynor and Kerrigan will both see there's not going to be much of a choice except to have the swarm form an alliance with the WHOLE terran race in the sector.

[Turalyon]

Actually, that's EXACTLY what I feel Blizzard would do, if they tell us LotV would have an ending you NEVER saw coming.

And then at the end of LotV we find out the WHOLE SC series since the beginning of SC1 was actually just a dream from a crack addict from today. And then Blizzard would tell the fans, "Ah, but we DIDN'T lie to you. That WAS an ending you never saw coming, wasn't it?"

You know what, I would probably get some perverse pleasure at seeing how all the Sc2 defenders would react to this if that really did happen. Bring it on!!

In all honesty, an alliance between the terrans and Zerg isn't really that hard if you think about it.

I know it's not that hard to imagine, that was my point. Whether it'll be like you described, who knows. In LotV, it'll probably just end up being that Valerian decided to join up with the Zerg out of the blue because there's not enough space to get into details leaving it for a book later on and that Blizzard probably justifies it by expecting the audience to accept things at a drop of the hat now because they managed to get through both Wol and HotS.

[ragnarok]

You know what, I would probably get some perverse pleasure at seeing how all the Sc2 defenders would react to this if that really did happen. Bring it on!!

I'm not one of those defenders, but I try to look at it more positively, instead of just having the critics' view that "the only successful thing Blizzard did in HotS was that the failed everything." Even so, if that REALLY happened, it'd be interesting to see how ANY fan would react.

I know it's not that hard to imagine, that was my point. Whether it'll be like you described, who knows. In LotV, it'll probably just end up being that Valerian decided to join up with the Zerg out of the blue because there's not enough space to get into details leaving it for a book later on and that Blizzard probably justifies it by expecting the audience to accept things at a drop of the hat now because they managed to get through both Wol and HotS.

The flaw with the alliance is more of a lack of caring. Unless Raynor can convince Kerrigan that there are more good men and women out there in humanity, her view of "everyone else in humanity is just like Mengsk" is not going to change.

[Turalyon]

I'm not one of those defenders, but I try to look at it more positively, instead of just having the critics' view that "the only successful thing Blizzard did in HotS was that the failed everything." Even so, if that REALLY happened, it'd be interesting to see how ANY fan would react.

I'd imagine that this would the breaking point for almost any Sc fan if this were to really happen. For me, I wouldn't even bat an eyelid honestly. Sadly, it's gone beyond "that point" for me such that I expect anything and everything could happen at any time.

The critics may be a little too enthusiastic when it comes to their opinions but I honestly think that if we parse through all that, most of the prominent ones are only really critical of that one (and very minor according to most players out there) aspect of the game . Because they all talk about that one thing (especially here, given its lore focus more than anything else), it's very easy to assume they hate everything about it. For me, whilst I dislike the current vision and direction, I still love the original conception of Sc.

The flaw with the alliance is more of a lack of caring. Unless Raynor can convince Kerrigan that there are more good men and women out there in humanity, her view of "everyone else in humanity is just like Mengsk" is not going to change.

If she's able to fall in love with Raynor, Kerrigan is well open and receptive to the idea that not all humans are like Mengsk. Besides, she's aware of having done far more worse things to innocent human populations when she was the QoB, which should prick at her conscience given her restored humanity. Hell, she listened to Valerian's suggestions to help give him time to spare some civilians when she could've just ignored him. This signifies she knows the difference between the Dominion and the general human populace and that she's willing to start trusting another human she wouldn't normally would. Like it or not, Blizz is trying to make this Kerrigan seem more genuinely "good" now even despite the wonky and morally questionable acts of murdering Protoss and going out of her way to attack all Dominion holdings when it didn't seem necessary.

[RetlocLive]

For me, whilst I dislike the current vision and direction, I still love the original conception of Sc.

This.

[TheEconomist]

I'm not one of those defenders, but I try to look at it more positively, instead of just having the critics' view that "the only successful thing Blizzard did in HotS was that the failed everything."

Like 30 posts of correcting Ragnarok's reading fail and he still doesn't get it. FHL