Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

[ragnarok]

The Overmind WOULD have succeeded as I see it. He gained the knowledge he needed from sacking the Xel'naga and taking their knowledge with him.

Also, it's correct that the Overmind was never intending to find the Terran's, but the retcon in SC2 with this whole Prophecy manner and the Zerg Savior BS that is Kerrigan means that the Overmind saw the Terrans and went "There, right there. That's my chance to create a savior for my species. I cannot assimilate Protoss right away, under Amon's nose. But I can add a Psionically potent Terran to my design and have it appear as if I'm simply creatin a new weapon to fight the Protoss".
The Overmind was absolutely unaware of the Terran's until he heard the Psi Emitter's going off during Confederate tests and remember those emitters needed Ghosts to power them. That drew his interest. Once he realized that the Psionic signature was that of a living being, he saught out the Terrans to exploit any new genetic material that may have been of use because prior to them? He had no access to Psionically adept beings to add to the Zerg gene pool. Terrans provided that option.
Add the retcon, and they are not only an exploit? But convenient for this whole Prophecy bull crap we've been lead into.

This is why even the prophecy takes chances, you know that.

You and I both know the lore from SC1 to SC2 had its flaws, though I still liked it.

And the Overmind didn't see his chance until knowing about the terrans. In any case I don't think he even wanted Kerrigan to fight the Protoss in the first place, merely an added bonus.

[Einharjar]

This is why even the prophecy takes chances, you know that.

You and I both know the lore from SC1 to SC2 had its flaws, though I still liked it.

And the Overmind didn't see his chance until knowing about the terrans. In any case I don't think he even wanted Kerrigan to fight the Protoss in the first place, merely an added bonus.

This is like the only point where maybe the SC2 retconning helps a BW plot issue.
Kerrigan is basically a Bad Ass revision of how things are done within the Swarm in BW. She's allowed to think, stay almost an individual and even has the ability to control a small Brood. Yet when the time comes to Sack Auir... she's left behind. The chick is treated like a daughter and prize by the Overmind, who even lets her get away with getting Zasz killed but doesn't seem to utilize her potential in a fight where her appearance could've easily thrown off Raynor and had the recklessness to challenge Tassadar for a rematch since being embarrassed by him earlier. Her appearance on Auir might've actually saved the Overmind.
However, the retconned Overmind's directive to let itself be framed to fail at Auir, meant that it purposely left Kerri' on Char to "guard" his flanks when it seemingly was letting itself succumb to it's controlled will; die, sever the link Amon had made corrupt and let Kerrigan have a chance in leading the "Brood Wars" as an eventual successor to him. It was a gamble. This gamble is truth as the WoL missions suggest that was Kerrigan's purpose. However I'm drawing the points in BW as well.
People challanged me on this for the longest time during the BW days, that I saw Kerrigan as an Overmind replacement. In BW, the Zerg were purely animal, sentient and intelligent, but still animal. Thus, by logic; the Overmind might've seen where Kerrigan was an "evolution" possibility over itself and better for the Zerg species as a whole. And this is all that matters. The Overmind even quotes this in BW, referring to Kerrigan's "will" to Daggoth and Zasz when the two show their displeasure of her actions. Despite her being an individual and reckless, she will do what it takes for the Zerg species as a whole. That is precisely what any animal would do for it's kin.

And now, with the Retcon; the idea that Kerrigan was a replacement for the Overmind is actually a true possibility. It knew it needed to die to sever Amon's link. It might've known that it was supposed to Die at Auir anyway; as per Amon's plan to reduce to the Zerg to their feral state and be otherwise, worthless. So it needed a replacement. TADA! Conveniently... there is this race of Terrans who has Psionics in it's blood, just in an infant state. So he finds the best Psionic they have to offer, Kerrigan; and uses her to continue it's will for his Kind. Survival.

So what do you konw... something good out've all these retcons. Just wish it didn't have anything to do with a stupid prophecy theme but that's my personal bias... hate prophetic crap unless it's well rounded in hard sci fi and not fantasy.

[ragnarok]

People challanged me on this for the longest time during the BW days, that I saw Kerrigan as an Overmind replacement. In BW, the Zerg were purely animal, sentient and intelligent, but still animal. Thus, by logic; the Overmind might've seen where Kerrigan was an "evolution" possibility over itself and better for the Zerg species as a whole. And this is all that matters. The Overmind even quotes this in BW, referring to Kerrigan's "will" to Daggoth and Zasz when the two show their displeasure of her actions. Despite her being an individual and reckless, she will do what it takes for the Zerg species as a whole. That is precisely what any animal would do for it's kin.

And now, with the Retcon; the idea that Kerrigan was a replacement for the Overmind is actually a true possibility. It knew it needed to die to sever Amon's link. It might've known that it was supposed to Die at Auir anyway; as per Amon's plan to reduce to the Zerg to their feral state and be otherwise, worthless. So it needed a replacement. TADA! Conveniently... there is this race of Terrans who has Psionics in it's blood, just in an infant state. So he finds the best Psionic they have to offer, Kerrigan; and uses her to continue it's will for his Kind. Survival.

So what do you konw... something good out've all these retcons. Just wish it didn't have anything to do with a stupid prophecy theme but that's my personal bias... hate prophetic crap unless it's well rounded in hard sci fi and not fantasy.

In some ways I can see that, but it's really hard to know just WHAT Kerrigan was trying to evolve the Zerg into before the whole prophecy concept came into focus. Perhaps in that essence, it can still be the case, where she would feel once Amon is beaten, she'll take the swarm and leave the sector to look after them.

However, she WOULD continue to keep an eye on the Korpulu Sector in the event problems arise, as she would continue to protect Raynor in any way she can. Which, could just be the case if Stukov's theory of the UED's return happens.

I'm still not sure if the Overmind killed itself on purpose on Aiur or not, it certainly could have and no one knew it. But the fact remains that the Overmind's plan fell slightly short of expectations. I don't think it had expected Amon's influence to still affect Kerrigan.

[Einharjar]

During BW, Kerrigan had little vision still so I'm not going to say she even knew what her purpose would've been.
Lets [for the sake of being nerds and enjoying theory-crafting] assume prophecy never took place and the Overmind didn't really intend to die; but wanted at least a successor to it. Would Kerrigan have known? Judging from SC1 and BW dialogue, no. However the quotes from Mr. Overmind to his subordinates regarding Kerrigan's attitude show that it made damn well sure that Kerrigan was "For the Swarm" and ONLY "For the Swarm". So even without the prophecy, I thought back then that Kerrigan was a successor and that SC2 was to show the come to fruition. The whole "Brood War" section of her life was simply a "rise to power" situation. I, being some one who favors the Zerg, wanted to her to win at all costs because I was trying to think from the Overmind's perspective. When she won and took over the whole Swarm, I was giddy with pride and felt pretty convinced that her success was what the Overmind wanted.
Now, Kerrigan herself had much to learn. She was still an individual in many ways and driven by malice and revenge. However over time, she'd start to change; become all the wiser.

Now with the Prophecy in place, it simply reinforces that fact because of the WoL Zeratul missions. Kerrigan was created on purpose. Her role was preordaned too and the Overmind saw to it that she would have a chance to fullfill that role.



On the Overmind's actions - I'd only say it killed itself on purpose if the Amon taint thing is more fleshed out. I don't think it's very strong of a motivator for the story to say "Raging within it's own mind, it sought suicide from it's mental captivity and purposely struck out at Auir before it was ready in order to end it's suffering".
Yeah. No.
That's actually rather weak for the Overmind's character and is even against it's character. Instead, letting Kerrigan sit on Char, away from death and letting itself fall as basically "a sacrifice" as planned, making Amon think that it fell trying to defeat the Protoss like he wanted would be far more intelligent, fills a few holes and fits the Overmind's character.
So if this is the case, it wasn't so much an on purpose thing, so much as it was "I'm accepting my fate, for it is best for our race." while simultaneously giving Amon the middle finger.

- - - Updated - - -

During BW, Kerrigan had little vision still so I'm not going to say she even knew what her purpose would've been.
Lets [for the sake of being nerds and enjoying theory-crafting] assume prophecy never took place and the Overmind didn't really intend to die; but wanted at least a successor to it. Would Kerrigan have known? Judging from SC1 and BW dialogue, no. However the quotes from Mr. Overmind to his subordinates regarding Kerrigan's attitude show that it made damn well sure that Kerrigan was "For the Swarm" and ONLY "For the Swarm". So even without the prophecy, I thought back then that Kerrigan was a successor and that SC2 was to show the come to fruition. The whole "Brood War" section of her life was simply a "rise to power" situation. I, being some one who favors the Zerg, wanted to her to win at all costs because I was trying to think from the Overmind's perspective. When she won and took over the whole Swarm, I was giddy with pride and felt pretty convinced that her success was what the Overmind wanted.
Now, Kerrigan herself had much to learn. She was still an individual in many ways and driven by malice and revenge. However over time, she'd start to change; become all the wiser.

Now with the Prophecy in place, it simply reinforces that fact because of the WoL Zeratul missions. Kerrigan was created on purpose. Her role was preordaned too and the Overmind saw to it that she would have a chance to fullfill that role.



On the Overmind's actions - I'd only say it killed itself on purpose if the Amon taint thing is more fleshed out. I don't think it's very strong of a motivator for the story to say "Raging within it's own mind, it sought suicide from it's mental captivity and purposely struck out at Auir before it was ready in order to end it's suffering".
Yeah. No.
That's actually rather weak for the Overmind's character and is even against it's character. Instead, letting Kerrigan sit on Char, away from death and letting itself fall as basically "a sacrifice" as planned, making Amon think that it fell trying to defeat the Protoss like he wanted would be far more intelligent, fills a few holes and fits the Overmind's character.
So if this is the case, it wasn't so much an on purpose thing, so much as it was "I'm accepting my fate, for it is best for our race." while simultaneously giving Amon the middle finger.

[ragnarok]

Yeah but Amon isn't fleshed out, not yet anyways. Hence why I don't want his saga to conclude with just LotV, it seems too short.

And yeah I can see what you mean by accepting its fate, but the fact still stands did it even know his plan would fall short due to Amon's influence on Kerrigan. If yes, that's another matter.

Kerrigan's learning from her arrogance was already seen all the way back in the Dark Templar Saga twilight, when Ulrezaj simply teleported away from her in the Xel'Naga caverns, while she was too confidence she had him trapped. That event there showed she still had plenty to learn about the powers the Protoss wield, since Ulrezaj demonstrated abilities she didn't think were possible.

Ok fine Ulrezaj was more powerful than the other Dark Templar, but still.

As for the whole prophecy, I would say her role was preordained THAT SOON. It only happened when the Overmind found the terran species.

This is what makes things frustrating, especially ever since I read Devil's Due:

If you recall, Raynor's father explained to him that it's the choices that make the man. But with this prophecy, it almost seems like no one ever had any choices to begin with, everything had long since been determined for them.

That being said, you could also argue that Kerrigan CHOSE to fight Amon when she didn't have to, but still.

[Einharjar]

In SC BW, there was no evidence of a Taint so back then? No, it didn't seem to have known anything was odd besides wanting to make sure that Kerrigan survived incased it died.

But in SC2, it knows of the taint. It was a pure gamble. This is where the Prophetic thing starts to get super super weak becaue like you said, even Amon isn't fleshed out. It's all very very weak.
The Overmind figured out it's actions were being manipulated well before it arrived at Koprulu. It had all that time to secretly plan a way to save the Zerg from Amon. When it found Kerrigan, it knew even Kerrigan would gain the taint. There fore letting itself die so that the Brood Wars happen grants Kerrigan a chance to remove most of the Taint. She has to kill the Cerebrates to control the Swarm. So she does. At this point, the only one left tainted is her. So the Overmind, having left his individuality some what intact and thus, she's able to act on information that even Overmind might not have? Has a chance to even remove the taint from herself.
If you think about it, if Kerrigan didn't get so fatalistic and be all "Yup... I'm going to die, along with all the Zerg, fighting Amon. but that's my place" she could've actually done Raynor's job herself.
She was searching for the Artifact... why?
Because maybe she was going to do it by herself? Maybe the whole "lets attack the Dominion" was more of a "Run Jim, stay away from me while I'm still a monster" and a "Run while still can, Arcturus" while she went spelunking for the very device that could cure her Taint.

Who knows.

All we do know, was that so long as Amon, Psionics and this Prophecy remains so shallow; we can only guess that the Overmind made one hell of a calculated gamble. It placed all it's bets on Kerrigan to find a way to save the Zerg. It mattered not if it knew how that gamble went either... for it died on Auir. It just knew that, it gave it's kind a chance. That's all that mattered. Again, think on it from an instinct view.

[ragnarok]

Well the one thing Narud was right about was that she feared its power. The searching for the relic was asked at Blizzcon 2011. Metzen said this is because Kerrigan knew Amon would win, but she wanted the Zerg to go out in a blaze of glory, and not have the terrans and Protoss challenge that. If they got the relic, they'd interfere with that plan.

I understand your POV from pure instinct, but that's not the way Kerrigan saw it. Even after the primal infestation and she's been remade down to the DNA, she's still a primal Zerg/terran hybrid. She's nothing like what the Overmind was in thinking PURELY in instinct and the need for survival.

That's the difference in real life in why animals have to be TRAINED to thinking beyond the survival instinct, while human beings don't need the same kind of push.

So yes, you can say that Kerrigan was still thinking of survival and what not, there's more to it than that. This is why I still believe if Amon never HAD been revived in HotS, she seriously would have considered leaving after Mengsk was taken care of. Over the course of the game she hinted at Zagara being the successor, after all.

Don't forget, instinct or no instinct, Kerrigan never wanted this role in the first place. She didn't even want any psionic powers. Granted she had reveled in the power the Zerg have given her, but for the primal infestation, it was all about revenge on Mengsk, and then to rescue Raynor. It was never PURELY about Amon, Kerrigan didn't even care until the battle with Narud, in which she realized this could no longer be ignored.

This is why I don't believe in the whole instinct matter. I always felt she was trying to evolve the Zerg to become something more than just acting on pure instinct. The broodmothers were examples of trying to put traces of humanity in them, even if it's twisted.

[Einharjar]

Well the one thing Narud was right about was that she feared its power. The searching for the relic was asked at Blizzcon 2011. Metzen said this is because Kerrigan knew Amon would win, but she wanted the Zerg to go out in a blaze of glory, and not have the terrans and Protoss challenge that. If they got the relic, they'd interfere with that plan.

Two things. One, this is what I meant by Metzen not having much merit over his universe. She fears the artifact so she attempts to find it; only to shaft AMON because she's a sore loser? -.- I don't think so... But hey, I'm not the creative director.
Two, she feared it, but why? With this whole Amon influencing crap like some subtle manipulative 13 year old Teenage Daughter, then perhaps she only feared it because her tainted self was made to feel threatened by it; hm? I mean if the Overmind was made to think what it was told by the influence, whos to say that the taint within Kerrigan (which every one agrees she would've had as the QoB because she was wraught from within the tainting Hive Mind) influenced her to feel depressed, fatalistic and fearful of her only means of salvation...
This entirely hinges on what the hell the Artifact was even truly for. I know you've stated your speculations of it; but I don't feel those assertions add up so far. Again, Blizzard is very vague on an important plot device that we're forced to suffer as suspension of disbelief.

Don't forget, instinct or no instinct, Kerrigan never wanted this role in the first place. She didn't even want any psionic powers. Granted she had reveled in the power the Zerg have given her, but for the primal infestation, it was all about revenge on Mengsk, and then to rescue Raynor. It was never PURELY about Amon, Kerrigan didn't even care until the battle with Narud, in which she realized this could no longer be ignored.

This statement could even support my thoughts.
For one, never wanting what she currently has can be given to everyone probably. You think Zeratul wanted to be involved in this whole prophetic mess? You think he wanted to kill his own Matriarch? You think Raynor is ever really going to get over the fact that his GF is like the Zerg Jesus and savior of the universe? Probably not! That point in kind'a moot. Sorry. No one want's war, death or suffering unless you're selfish enough to only focus on you or instinctual enough to realize it's what's best for your children.
Second, by instinct alone your point about her drive/reasons wouldn't have been entirely about Amon anyway. Instinct has nothing to do with bias or any relative subject involving rivals. It's all about logical assertions and outcomes. Will this benefit my well being? Will it permit me to still breed? Will I survive? Will my offspring survive?
It matters not to the whole of the Zerg who or even WHAT Amon is, just that his eradication is paramount to the Zerg's survival. If there is any balls left on Metzen and his writing crew, they will not have erased so much of BW and the Overmind's character as to remove the very "will" that the Overmind imposed on her for her purpose. She was special for that reason. She's an individual, but whole heartedly, ZERG. That's only reason why she even cares about the damned species is because she's Zerg; on the deepest level - courtesy of the Overmind.
Yes, she's still an individual. Yes, she'll still have human concepts of revenge, love, lust and hatred. But she's also Zerg. I see no point in reducing her character to just "A human dressed as a Zerg biatch doing human things". She's better off being Human, forced to accept that she's now also Zerg and has to care for both. Reducing her to just "it was all for Raynor" is incredibly one dimensional and destroys any depth she has left.

This is why I don't believe in the whole instinct matter. I always felt she was trying to evolve the Zerg to become something more than just acting on pure instinct. The brood mothers were examples of trying to put traces of humanity in them, even if it's twisted.

You're over thinking the Instinct. Refer to my quote above. Instinct is all about the results, and if a little individual level thinking will prevent another "Amon" taint issue from happening again? Then it falls inline with the logic. Like I said in the PM, instinct is simple. It's that simplicity that makes it so important.

[ragnarok]

Two things. One, this is what I meant by Metzen not having much merit over his universe. She fears the artifact so she attempts to find it; only to shaft AMON because she's a sore loser? -.- I don't think so... But hey, I'm not the creative director.
Two, she feared it, but why? With this whole Amon influencing crap like some subtle manipulative 13 year old Teenage Daughter, then perhaps she only feared it because her tainted self was made to feel threatened by it; hm? I mean if the Overmind was made to think what it was told by the influence, whos to say that the taint within Kerrigan (which every one agrees she would've had as the QoB because she was wraught from within the tainting Hive Mind) influenced her to feel depressed, fatalistic and fearful of her only means of salvation...
This entirely hinges on what the hell the Artifact was even truly for. I know you've stated your speculations of it; but I don't feel those assertions add up so far. Again, Blizzard is very vague on an important plot device that we're forced to suffer as suspension of disbelief.

Yeah I know what you mean. Even the way Narud used it probably wasn't its designed purpose. Another possibility is maybe the other Xel'Naga knew Amon would corrupt the Zerg, hence the need for the artifact. Now, as to why it's only thousands and not millions of years old, it's possible that not ALL the Xel'Naga were killed by the Zerg. Amon only THOUGHT he killed them all.

You're right in that I'm not seeing why Kerrigan wanted the artifact, unless she really felt there was some way for the artifact to boost her power even more. But then, I don't think she really understood how the Xel'Naga worked.

This statement could even support my thoughts.
For one, never wanting what she currently has can be given to everyone probably. You think Zeratul wanted to be involved in this whole prophetic mess? You think he wanted to kill his own Matriarch? You think Raynor is ever really going to get over the fact that his GF is like the Zerg Jesus and savior of the universe? Probably not! That point in kind'a moot. Sorry. No one want's war, death or suffering unless you're selfish enough to only focus on you or instinctual enough to realize it's what's best for your children.
Second, by instinct alone your point about her drive/reasons wouldn't have been entirely about Amon anyway. Instinct has nothing to do with bias or any relative subject involving rivals. It's all about logical assertions and outcomes. Will this benefit my well being? Will it permit me to still breed? Will I survive? Will my offspring survive?
It matters not to the whole of the Zerg who or even WHAT Amon is, just that his eradication is paramount to the Zerg's survival. If there is any balls left on Metzen and his writing crew, they will not have erased so much of BW and the Overmind's character as to remove the very "will" that the Overmind imposed on her for her purpose. She was special for that reason. She's an individual, but whole heartedly, ZERG. That's only reason why she even cares about the damned species is because she's Zerg; on the deepest level - courtesy of the Overmind.
Yes, she's still an individual. Yes, she'll still have human concepts of revenge, love, lust and hatred. But she's also Zerg. I see no point in reducing her character to just "A human dressed as a Zerg biatch doing human things". She's better off being Human, forced to accept that she's now also Zerg and has to care for both. Reducing her to just "it was all for Raynor" is incredibly one dimensional and destroys any depth she has left.

Of course not with the not wanting things, but Amon's actions forced everyone to react. Also, I'm not saying to reduce it to "all for Raynor" and all that. When the two of them first met in the SoK, they fought for the liberty of the sector. THAT, if you think about it, was kind of what Kerrigan was telling Izsha right before "The Reckoning". Izsha was confused why Kerrigan wanted the terran race to benefit, since it means nothing to the swarm. In some ways, this was like her original goal from back at the beginning, prior to infestation.

Forced to care for both is nothing new, Raynor had to do the same thing when he was helping with the evacuation of Aiur with Fenix. Granted Kerrigan has a more complex role, but the principle is still similar. That is why my hope is once Amon is beaten, Kerrigan can evolve the Zerg to a point where they wouldn't threaten the terrans and Protoss anymore, as there's been enough bloodshed.

I'm not saying not caring for the swarm is the right thing to do, I'm simply saying you can't reduce her to killing everything in sight to get to Amon and not caring AT ALL of what happens to the terran and Protoss species. If that happened, then WoL would be COMPLETELY useless since the influence removal changed nothing.

As for your part of the simplicity, that I understand, and you can argue the terran and Protoss methods tend to overthink things, but some things are simply not MEANT to be that simple of a picture. Kerrigan's actions in waging this war against Amon is just that. If she thinks she can just go in blind with no knowledge of what Amon can do, it's not going to work.

And THAT would be one of the lessons the swarm needs to learn: even the "overwhelming numbers" advantage has its limitations.

[Einharjar]

The lesson is that the Hive Mind has it's limits and that the conflict with Amon will prove they needed to evolve to over come that weakness. Kerrigan was the source of that evolution. She brought levels of individual sentience back into the Swarm, passed down to the Brood Mothers. She's making the Zerg far less susceptible to another "Amon" plot as a result.

Leaving the Terran's and Protoss alone isn't supportive of Zerg instincts; though the Terrans really are of no other use and could be just left behind. The idea that Kerrigan will leave them be is because she is still, deep down, Sarah Kerrigan. She has to care for BOTH.
Making the Swarm into what it's going to be, fighting off Amon and realizing her place is for the Zerg. However, she's still allowed human feelings and thus forcing the Zerg to stay away from Terrans and Protoss is only natural. It's sympathy; something the Zerg don't possess and never will; but so long as she's alive? She will.