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Thread: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

  1. #51

    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    And I meant Kerrigan's presence opened the ability to create stronger hybrids, hence speeding up the progress.
    This does not constitute an actual speeding up of progress. This in fact should delay his progress because he now has to incorporate this new stuff (whatever that may be) into his current batch of Hybrids to make them stronger than before due to Kerrigan's mere presence.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Because as he had said it on Char: "Some things are just worth fighting for." Now yes, you can say that was shaken in the "Believe in Me" cutscene, but I believe some part of him still trusted Kerrigan, despite what she did.
    At the end of WoL, he had to kill his best friend out of duress for saving someone who could have potentially been beyond rehabilitation and still have retained psychotic tendencies. Raynor could have felt great shame and not doing more to help his friend. Luckily, Kerrigan turned out to be good again otherwise who knows how much more broken he could've got. He flipped from being angry and mopey to being hopeful again, he could've just as easily switched back. I guess we can chalk up bipolar disorder as another mental disorder for Raynor.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    As for being a death seeker, he's already a death magnet.
    The former is a character attribute and lends itself to exploring the nature of the character and how they potentially drive the plot (the dangerous situations Raynor finds himself in is largely due to him seeking them) whilst the latter is a literary device imposed on a given character specifically to create drama. Given all the stuff he had been through up to BW, a case for the former as being more tonally consistent for Raynor's mindset wouldn't be that far-fetched. At the least, it's not as far-fetched as him suddenly forgetting his trauma because he caught sight of a naked human girl he once knew.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    I still want LotV to explain how Tassadar survived.
    I'd take it to be something to the effect of "blah blah magic blah blah"?

    Still, it could just as easily turn out that Tassadar didn't survive at all and that it was just an image conjured up by the Overmind or Amon as some part of hidden conspiracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    If they become good, how would SC3 work? You still have to fight the Zerg species if SC3 is made, you know...
    Remember, anything can happen in Sc now. If it needs to be contrived to fight the Zerg, something can be invented to make it happen. It's not that hard to make a rebel faction or some such blather.

    Besides, something like this didn't stop WoL from forcing a Terran vs Protoss fight with Selendis, a friendly Protoss! Even despite that, TvP was generally a difficult concept given that Raynor and the majority of the Protoss were on good terms now. Cue the evil Protoss Tal'darim, tailor-made so we have an excuse to fight Protoss. And yes, I've heard the excuse they've been explored and better understood in the books but that doesn't stop them being poorly implemented in WoL as nothing more than generic, on-the-spot Protoss enemies to fight.
    Last edited by Turalyon; 02-15-2014 at 07:57 AM.
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  2. #52

    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    This does not constitute an actual speeding up of progress. This in fact should delay his progress because he now has to incorporate this new stuff (whatever that may be) into his current batch of Hybrids to make them stronger than before due to Kerrigan's mere presence.
    Then you can just say we're all overthinking it and it was only for Amon's revival. Beyond that, I don't see what else Blizzard would say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    At the end of WoL, he had to kill his best friend out of duress for saving someone who could have potentially been beyond rehabilitation and still have retained psychotic tendencies. Raynor could have felt great shame and not doing more to help his friend. Luckily, Kerrigan turned out to be good again otherwise who knows how much more broken he could've got. He flipped from being angry and mopey to being hopeful again, he could've just as easily switched back. I guess we can chalk up bipolar disorder as another mental disorder for Raynor.
    Yeah well the whole "Believe in Me" scene was because Raynor felt betrayed in that she chose this for herself. But when he saw she was willing to avoid civilian centers, Raynor felt this wasn't like her at all. If this was still the old QoB, she wouldn't have even landed the swarm outside the city. To him, that was enough proof that Kerrigan changed her ways.

    Although to me, I always felt that Kerrigan only agreed to Valerian's request for Raynor's sake, as he had continued to believe to the very end that there was more to her than just a mass murderer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Given all the stuff he had been through up to BW, a case for the former as being more tonally consistent for Raynor's mindset wouldn't be that far-fetched. At the least, it's not as far-fetched as him suddenly forgetting his trauma because he caught sight of a naked human girl he once knew.
    Yeah well that's just Raynor's mentality at the end of WoL. When he finally got Kerrigan back, he wanted to have nothing to do with the prophecy, the rebellion, or ANYTHING anymore. He just wanted to be alone with her, and that's it. HotS's ending was merely a reminder that the prophecy was NOT going away, and it can't be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I'd take it to be something to the effect of "blah blah magic blah blah"?

    Still, it could just as easily turn out that Tassadar didn't survive at all and that it was just an image conjured up by the Overmind or Amon as some part of hidden conspiracy.
    Yeah Blizzard's original excuse that "We had to make Tassadar survive because he's the only one who could have made Zeratul believe on the prophecy" was not a good one. I hope for a better reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Besides, something like this didn't stop WoL from forcing a Terran vs Protoss fight with Selendis, a friendly Protoss! Even despite that, TvP was generally a difficult concept given that Raynor and the majority of the Protoss were on good terms now. Cue the evil Protoss Tal'darim, tailor-made so we have an excuse to fight Protoss. And yes, I've heard the excuse they've been explored and better understood in the books but that doesn't stop them being poorly implemented in WoL as nothing more than generic, on-the-spot Protoss enemies to fight.
    Hence why I can see the PvT battles in LotV will involve Raynor, as the Protoss feel he betrayed their alliance because he couldn't get over his lovestruck problems.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Been awhile... but after reading over a few things I'll pipe in.

    One - It's an obvious retcon that the Zerg origin story has completely changed. It's also obvious that Blizzard is terrible at writing hard sci fi. Unfortunately, all we can do is Move Along. We're forced with the idea that the Primordial Pool is the new creation story; and apparently Xel'naga piss. Not sure what else to say.

    Two - Abathur may have the knowledge, but not the means. This I don't think is too contradicting, despite the retcons for Zerus. I had always believed that the reason why the Overmind couldn't just out right assimilate Protoss was because of their Psionoc fortitude. Not just that, but Protoss seem to be inherently Psi based, not Void. The Void based discipline had to be taught. It just so happens that the Protoss Psionic Fortitude is so great, that they could accomplish this willingly without much modification (and this is assuming that the severing of the Nerve cords does in fact count or not count as modification to achieve this goal. I assumed not, because via Tassadar and Khas, they seem completely and biologically unrelated to having a Bias to Psi over Void or vice versa as they controlled Void energy with Nerve cords intact).
    Thus is the reason why the Overmind in SC1 wished to gather the two crystals, and land at a particular special spot on Auir. I believe it had the knowledge from the Xel'naga on how to assimilate the Protoss. It needed to use material that would help bridge the Void (negative Psi) with Psi (positive Psi). Prior to this, the Zerg on their own had no real tools to handle such a task. By landing on Auir in an area prone to Xel'naga tampering, (don't remember, but I thought it was where the Xel'naga first touched ground on Auir... the site of an old Temple?) and gathering material from Khaydarin formations; he could, HIMSELF, finally meld Protoss with Zerg. This melding isn't just of the Genetic leve, but Psionic as well.
    Unfortunately, Psionics is one of the least written about sciences/lore concepts in the SC universe. It's just there, and it does magical things. So my idea was based on complete speculation that Psionics had something to do with energy other wise outside are standard physical universe; kind'a like another type of Higgs Field. Something.
    However, SC2 adds that the Overmind's original function was to destroy the Protoss entirely or at least die trying... so it's real purpose was to actually commit suicide. As we've seen, plot holes galore form when you try to explain the whole Druan/Narud "I waited til' now to summon my babies for ressurecting my master" and one of the ways I try to close a plot hole, was that the Amon Influence was supposed to get the Overmind killed; not really obliterate the 'Toss. Duran still needs 'Toss alive to make Hybrids and so the idea of Amon having to give the Overmind a secret directive to eradicate the 'Toss doesn't play out well for Duran's plot line. Forcing it to commit suicide? Kind'a does.

    Three - Duran's comment about Kerri speeding up the Process was originally, to me, again a revelation on using Psi in the genetic merger. I has assumed as well that Kerri's psi was both Psi and Void. She's Void based now, having been apart of the Hive Link and collective psi that all Zerg share; but her Terran genes apparently support Psi (Protoss based). This speculation was again, pre 2006 information because Kerrigan is allowed to cast Psionic Storm in the game; which is a huge deal. Only Positive Psi can do that AND it takes a high level of Psionics to even accomplish it. This could've been just game play factors, but I was trying to draw on what I had.
    SC2 crams this down the trash however, when it becomes pretty obvious that "sped up the process" was more like a "I panicked. Wasn't expecting the suicidal Overmind to secretly create a Zerg savior. We (Amon and I) were hoping it would kill itself at an AFI concert before it accomplished this, but it appears my Shamanistic fore sight needs calibration. I'm now scrambling to pass my Xel'naga genetic's exam as a result. To help brown nose my professor, I'm going to randomly create Stukov as a test subject to prove my theories... with Terran DNA! Far simpler and yet... ... oh forget it"...


    I'll follow up later. Just wanted to chime in.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    Three - Duran's comment about Kerri speeding up the Process was originally, to me, again a revelation on using Psi in the genetic merger. I has assumed as well that Kerri's psi was both Psi and Void. She's Void based now, having been apart of the Hive Link and collective psi that all Zerg share; but her Terran genes apparently support Psi (Protoss based). This speculation was again, pre 2006 information because Kerrigan is allowed to cast Psionic Storm in the game; which is a huge deal. Only Positive Psi can do that AND it takes a high level of Psionics to even accomplish it. This could've been just game play factors, but I was trying to draw on what I had.
    SC2 crams this down the trash however, when it becomes pretty obvious that "sped up the process" was more like a "I panicked. Wasn't expecting the suicidal Overmind to secretly create a Zerg savior. We (Amon and I) were hoping it would kill itself at an AFI concert before it accomplished this, but it appears my Shamanistic fore sight needs calibration. I'm now scrambling to pass my Xel'naga genetic's exam as a result. To help brown nose my professor, I'm going to randomly create Stukov as a test subject to prove my theories... with Terran DNA! Far simpler and yet... ... oh forget it"...
    There's no sub-category of psionics called "psi". Everything psionic in StarCraft can be called "psi". There is only:

    1) Khala/Templar energy. Only khalai can use this. That's it. Maybe hybrids, but not necessarily.
    2) Void energy. Dark Templar and the Zerg use this energy.
    3) Possibly a third yet-unnamed category that humans use. 99% likely that it's just another subset of void energy, since we know from SC1 that the zerg are attuned to the psionic emanations of ghosts.

    This speculation was again, pre 2006 information because Kerrigan is allowed to cast Psionic Storm in the game; which is a huge deal. Only Positive Psi can do that AND it takes a high level of Psionics to even accomplish it.
    The only reason it was special is because the khala is normally required to control psi-storms so they don't rage out of control. But dark templar can cast psionic storms too, and some are even powerful enough to control them: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Darakian (well, at least until he got retconned :P)

    That being said, we know in SC2 that Kerrigan actually casts a razor swarm "storm" and not really a psi storm (though I'm sure she could). She can also use mind-control, like a dark archon, which points to the fact that she uses void energy.

    Abathur may have the knowledge, but not the means. This I don't think is too contradicting, despite the retcons for Zerus. I had always believed that the reason why the Overmind couldn't just out right assimilate Protoss was because of their Psionoc fortitude.
    What about Stukov? Why is Narud's infestation of Stukov so much better than Abathur's? Stukov doesn't have any psionic fortitude.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    What about Stukov? Why is Narud's infestation of Stukov so much better than Abathur's? Stukov doesn't have any psionic fortitude.
    Then why was he considered a ghost unit in Brood War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    Been awhile... but after reading over a few things I'll pipe in.

    One - It's an obvious retcon that the Zerg origin story has completely changed. It's also obvious that Blizzard is terrible at writing hard sci fi. Unfortunately, all we can do is Move Along. We're forced with the idea that the Primordial Pool is the new creation story; and apparently Xel'naga piss. Not sure what else to say.
    I wouldn't say Xel'Naga piss, Einharjar. Remember what we talked about the other day: you can argue all you want that the Xel'Naga largely just observed as the Zerg evolved, according to the SC1 manual. But "largely" did not mean not doing anything at all.

    One way or another, the Xel'Naga still gave the Zerg a helping hand in uprooting them, and therefore the Xel'Naga artifact's ability to kill Zerg still makes sense.

    However, it's not fully explained in terms of the details of the helping hand, and therefore it's still possible that the Xel'Naga did something to the first spawning pool on Zerus.

    Besides, as you and I both agreed, had Blizzard tried harder, the new lore of the Zerg in HotS could still have worked to be compatible with the old lore in the SC1 manual....
    Last edited by ragnarok; 02-20-2014 at 04:30 AM.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    I had always believed that the reason why the Overmind couldn't just out right assimilate Protoss was because of their Psionoc fortitude.
    Who says there was reason to believe the Overmind could not assimilate the Protoss from the beginning? That they can't was an additive retcon from the EU. From the information in Sc1 only, one assumes the Overmind can and that it possibly requires some prep work. The fact that we don't see it happen or the end stage of it is not proof that it couldn't actually do it. It could have just as easily meant the opposite: that it was assimilating them but we just didn't see it and that the Overmind died before completing its work of Protoss assimilation which is why we don't see it..

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    The Void based discipline had to be taught.
    Huh? How is that different from those who derive their power from the Khala? The Khala is a discipline that needs instruction as well. Afterall, Khas was the one who had to teach his brethren to stop the Aoen of Strife.

    Besides, who taught the first Nerazim then? Unless you meant self-taught? Then again, the general psionic ability of the Protoss is an innate skill that doesn't need to be taught - this was demonstrated prior to their first contact with the Xel'Naga. I think that what would need to be taught is from where to derive the energy to fuel that psionic ability - whether it's through the Khala or from the Void.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    Thus is the reason why the Overmind in SC1 wished to gather the two crystals, and land at a particular special spot on Auir.
    I thought it was only one Khaydarin crystal. The Uraj and Khalis (which you seem to be referencing with the "negative and positive psi") were specific Khaydarin crystals independent of the one that the Overmind harvested off a mound in Aiur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    However, SC2 adds that the Overmind's original function was to destroy the Protoss entirely or at least die trying... so it's real purpose was to actually commit suicide. As we've seen, plot holes galore form when you try to explain the whole Druan/Narud "I waited til' now to summon my babies for ressurecting my master" and one of the ways I try to close a plot hole, was that the Amon Influence was supposed to get the Overmind killed; not really obliterate the 'Toss. Duran still needs 'Toss alive to make Hybrids and so the idea of Amon having to give the Overmind a secret directive to eradicate the 'Toss doesn't play out well for Duran's plot line. Forcing it to commit suicide? Kind'a does.
    Doesn't make sense with that logic either because one then wonders why Amon bothered with the Overmind at all if he really just wanted it "to die". Also, why not force it to commit suicide sooner since he had control over it?

    The only other explanation for the contradictory nature of Narud's (needing psi to awaken Amon) and Amon's plans (kill all Zerg and Protoss) is that they're not mutually aware of each others goals. *Shrug*

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    This speculation was again, pre 2006 information because Kerrigan is allowed to cast Psionic Storm in the game; which is a huge deal. Only Positive Psi can do that AND it takes a high level of Psionics to even accomplish it.
    As Gradius said, the Dark Templar have always had this ability. Go back to the manual: Adun was trying to teach those wayward Protoss who rejected the Khala into using their powers but they unleashed devastating psi-storms due to their lack of discipline. The psi-storm is just an expression of raw psionic power with the magnitude and power dependent on the one who created it rather than being specifically due to specific energy or psi-types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    SC2 crams this down the trash however, when it becomes pretty obvious that "sped up the process" was more like a "I panicked.
    There's some confusion there because based on Rag's explanations (which are by no means self-evident and require a tonne of fanon) it's now debatable that Duran even sped up at all.
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  7. #57
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    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Then why was he considered a ghost unit in Brood War?
    Because that's the only asset they had to represent him. Plus it's not like he uses any psychic powers in SC2 either (apart from controlling the swarm). Hell, even ghosts in SC1 didn't use any psychic powers for gameplay.

    Also, what does that have to do with anything? We already know terrans can be infested and Kaloth infested Stukov just fine the first time around. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Who says there was reason to believe the Overmind could not assimilate the Protoss from the beginning? That they can't was an additive retcon from the EU. From the information in Sc1 only, one assumes the Overmind can and that it possibly requires some prep work. The fact that we don't see it happen or the end stage of it is not proof that it couldn't actually do it. It could have just as easily meant the opposite: that it was assimilating them but we just didn't see it and that the Overmind died before completing its work of Protoss assimilation which is why we don't see it..
    This is what I thought too. There's not really any evidence that the Overmind was failing, just that it wasn't easy. The psionic fortitude problem was bypassed by gathering the crystal and manifesting on Aiur, like Einharjar said.
    Last edited by Gradius; 02-20-2014 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Who says there was reason to believe the Overmind could not assimilate the Protoss from the beginning? That they can't was an additive retcon from the EU. From the information in Sc1 only, one assumes the Overmind can and that it possibly requires some prep work. The fact that we don't see it happen or the end stage of it is not proof that it couldn't actually do it. It could have just as easily meant the opposite: that it was assimilating them but we just didn't see it and that the Overmind died before completing its work of Protoss assimilation which is why we don't see it..
    As I mentioned, and Gradius pointed out; the Overmind KNEW how to assimilate them. He just needed to jump through hoops to do it. Zerg prior to current retcons, have NO "Khala" styled Psionics within their genetic tool set. Thus the Overmind needed to use a specific set of events, instructions and tools to try and achieve his goal.
    Again, as I've stated, we literally have nothing to go on for Psionics. I think you're assuming incorrectly about how Psi Works; just I may as well be. Khala is simply a discipline. It's not Psi at all. It's just a practice of using the Psionics inate in every Protoss to establish the once instinctual communal link they once shared. That is it. There is nothing Psionically special about it. That is, until it's retconned again. With that said, Normal "Psi" couldn't kill Cerebrates and Overminds, but apparently Void based Psi can. So there is a clear difference that the creators are trying to express here... they are just bad at expressing it. We need more info. Badly. However that requires Metzen to actually care... which is an issue...


    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Huh? How is that different from those who derive their power from the Khala? The Khala is a discipline that needs instruction as well. Afterall, Khas was the one who had to teach his brethren to stop the Aoen of Strife.

    Besides, who taught the first Nerazim then? Unless you meant self-taught? Then again, the general psionic ability of the Protoss is an innate skill that doesn't need to be taught - this was demonstrated prior to their first contact with the Xel'Naga. I think that what would need to be taught is from where to derive the energy to fuel that psionic ability - whether it's through the Khala or from the Void.
    I feel that the Psionic potential is so strong that they were capable of tapping into the Void, via discipline. This is not unlike the parallel drawn in Starwars, where Luke actually melded some "Dark Side" with his "Light Side". Both sides are the Force, but released in different ways, like a polarity. However with a little extra discipline; even a Jedi Master could resist the corruption of the Dark Side but still use Dark Side "Force". So, I considered the "discipline" part in this manner. The Protoss taught themselves how to use Psi in a way that was NOT INNATE to them; because their Fortitude is that uniquely powerful. It's an easy concept; but again one that we can't prove because we don't know squat about "Psi" a SCs Sci Fi canon. It's just... there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I thought it was only one Khaydarin crystal. The Uraj and Khalis (which you seem to be referencing with the "negative and positive psi") were specific Khaydarin crystals independent of the one that the Overmind harvested off a mound in Aiur.
    No, Khaydarin is everywhere. It's on Bhekar Ro, Nemaka, Auir, Shakuras and any world the Xel'naga had contact with. Uraj and Khalis ARE Khaydarin crystals. The crystals have different uses. Xel'naga used Khaydarin for pretty much everything, Artificial Intelligence, storing information (like the Cave on Auir) and genetic manipulation. What I described as one being positive and one being negative was already admitted as speculation because clearly, the Khaydarin are Psionic and again; we don't know shit about Psi. And it sucks. Lol

    However it is explicitly stated that they have different uses and even change. Xel'naga are to have been assumed to use Khaydarin for Void based Psi when manipulating the Zerg and used even more Void based Psi crystals when creating the Overmind and the opposite types where used with the Protoss. "The crystals themselves can also be affected by outside stimuli to an extent, such as the Khalis and Uraj crystals becoming altered by their users and their environment" - wiki entry on Khaydarin. Metzen himself said this in a QnA panel though his authority over his own universe seems to bare little merit these days.


    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Doesn't make sense with that logic either because one then wonders why Amon bothered with the Overmind at all if he really just wanted it "to die". Also, why not force it to commit suicide sooner since he had control over it?

    The only other explanation for the contradictory nature of Narud's (needing psi to awaken Amon) and Amon's plans (kill all Zerg and Protoss) is that they're not mutually aware of each others goals. *Shrug*
    Well, an excuse could be made to say, that he influenced the Overmind to be over Zealous and misjudge it's progress versus the Protoss on purpose, so that it would be destroyed. Amon could've known of Tassadar's power as well as other things. Maybe he knew of the Nazerim as well so he knew wielders of Void energy could come and destroy the Overmind; thus rendering the Zerg Swarm inert and useless; ready for Amon to use for whatever he wished. Since he is Xel'naga, it'd be stupid of them to not give Amon knowledge of the Protoss since his race last knew them. He should be aware of their potential to destroy the Overmind; something unique to them as there is no other race available currently in the Lore.

    He couldn't just "kill the Overmind sooner" because there is specifically no stated race between Zerus and the K-Sector that was psionic. The Overmind was heading straight for Auir; if it had encountered any beings along the way that were Psionic, I'm sure the Overmind would've made a note about it and wouldn't have had such a hard on for Terran Ghosts... I think you're jumping the gun here...


    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    As Gradius said, the Dark Templar have always had this ability. Go back to the manual: Adun was trying to teach those wayward Protoss who rejected the Khala into using their powers but they unleashed devastating psi-storms due to their lack of discipline. The psi-storm is just an expression of raw psionic power with the magnitude and power dependent on the one who created it rather than being specifically due to specific energy or psi-types.
    Again, I'm not sure if I just wrote it wrong (I could have. I can write complete jibberish at times) but I fail to see the problem here. Protoss are INNATELY Psionic. I theorize, POSITIVE Psi (the Psi the Khala uses). Thus in order to use VOID Psi (negative or whatever it may be) it had to be TAUGHT because it wasn't INNATE to them. Thus, having Nazerim release Psi Storms? Normal! They are Protoss! Any Protoss, Nazerim, Taldarim or Khalai can release Psionic Storms, given enough strength. Their genes make all of them capable users of what I theorize as "Positive" Psi. Now yes, this is me creating Fan Cannon and theories; but I see no issues with it as of yet.
    Once more... we have no info on Psi; and that is an issue on coming a conclusion on anything that uses Psionics as a topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    There's some confusion there because based on Rag's explanations (which are by no means self-evident and require a tonne of fanon) it's now debatable that Duran even sped up at all.
    I'm assuming he sped up his "plans" (the progress he was referring to) because if it were to be true, that the Overmind was basically framed to fail - then it's purpose for dying was to prevent the prophecy of a Zerg Savior. Duran, in BW then, having seen this savior basically went "oh shit, it didn't work... " and started seeding his "Many many worlds" in a hastily manner. Thus he employed the help of a corrupt Dictator who would harbor such odd things and used him to help "speed" up the seeding process.
    This little tidbit really means nothing now honestly as Duran/Narud has supposedly been removed as a character and the Hybrids were already waking as of WoL. So in turth, Blizzard may never elaborate on this dialogue just as they won't elaborate on many other things including the whole "Amon told the Overmind to do it but the Overmind secretly didn't know it was told to do it but it really did secretly secret know it was told to do it and hid it's secretly secret knowledge of the secret "told you to do it" from Amon".... ... ... oh my god I think I've snapped...

  9. #59

    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    This is what I thought too. There's not really any evidence that the Overmind was failing, just that it wasn't easy. The psionic fortitude problem was bypassed by gathering the crystal and manifesting on Aiur, like Einharjar said.
    Possibly, but it seemed like the Overmind still had a lot to work out, its work was far from complete when Tassadar made his suicide run to destroy it. I'm still unsure if the Overmind could have succeeded at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einharjar View Post
    I'm assuming he sped up his "plans" (the progress he was referring to) because if it were to be true, that the Overmind was basically framed to fail - then it's purpose for dying was to prevent the prophecy of a Zerg Savior. Duran, in BW then, having seen this savior basically went "oh shit, it didn't work... " and started seeding his "Many many worlds" in a hastily manner. Thus he employed the help of a corrupt Dictator who would harbor such odd things and used him to help "speed" up the seeding process.
    This little tidbit really means nothing now honestly as Duran/Narud has supposedly been removed as a character and the Hybrids were already waking as of WoL. So in turth, Blizzard may never elaborate on this dialogue just as they won't elaborate on many other things including the whole "Amon told the Overmind to do it but the Overmind secretly didn't know it was told to do it but it really did secretly secret know it was told to do it and hid it's secretly secret knowledge of the secret "told you to do it" from Amon".... ... ... oh my god I think I've snapped...
    That's hard to say. To me, it seemed like Amon never expected the Overmind to turn to the terrans AT ALL. But then again, we don't really know when Amon passed away, we just know it was sometime before SC1 happened.

    He thus left behind clues for Duran to follow for his revival and everything. Once the terrans arrived in the Korpulu Sector, Duran sat back and observed for a while, before decided to take action in manipulating Mengsk.
    Last edited by ragnarok; 02-20-2014 at 01:41 PM.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Possibly, but it seemed like the Overmind still had a lot to work out, its work was far from complete when Tassadar made his suicide run to destroy it. I'm still unsure if the Overmind could have succeeded at all.



    That's hard to say. To me, it seemed like Amon never expected the Overmind to turn to the terrans AT ALL. But then again, we don't really know when Amon passed away, we just know it was sometime before SC1 happened.

    He thus left behind clues for Duran to follow for his revival and everything. Once the terrans arrived in the Korpulu Sector, Duran sat back and observed for a while, before decided to take action in manipulating Mengsk.
    The Overmind WOULD have succeeded as I see it. He gained the knowledge he needed from sacking the Xel'naga and taking their knowledge with him.

    Also, it's correct that the Overmind was never intending to find the Terran's, but the retcon in SC2 with this whole Prophecy manner and the Zerg Savior BS that is Kerrigan means that the Overmind saw the Terrans and went "There, right there. That's my chance to create a savior for my species. I cannot assimilate Protoss right away, under Amon's nose. But I can add a Psionically potent Terran to my design and have it appear as if I'm simply creatin a new weapon to fight the Protoss".
    The Overmind was absolutely unaware of the Terran's until he heard the Psi Emitter's going off during Confederate tests and remember those emitters needed Ghosts to power them. That drew his interest. Once he realized that the Psionic signature was that of a living being, he saught out the Terrans to exploit any new genetic material that may have been of use because prior to them? He had no access to Psionically adept beings to add to the Zerg gene pool. Terrans provided that option.
    Add the retcon, and they are not only an exploit? But convenient for this whole Prophecy bull crap we've been lead into.

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