Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

[Turalyon]

If Amon and his agents are so awesome, it raises the question of why they sucked so bad at utilizing pylon technology in Dark Origins

It's a clear case of invoked Surrounded by Idiots trope. Zeratul does mention Terrans afterall, and we all know how dumb those bunch of rednecks are.

Or why Kerrigan's rebirth into the swarm "sped up" Duran's progress if he was already ahead of the swarm according to Abathur in SC2.

I queried that just above. I think, with what is revealed in Sc2 so far, is that Duran is hurrying up because he's afraid of Kerrigan (being the one who can stop Amon and end everything I suppose) and not meaning that he was having trouble making Hybrids until Kerrigan's induction provided the key since that would imply a very tight time course for the Hybrids in becoming a ready threat 4 years later in Sc2. Either way, he wouldn't admit any of this to Zeratul.

The problem with this solution is that it doesn't explain why Duran just didn't kill Kerrigan when he was pretending to be her lieutenant in BW. Hmm, I'm beginning to wonder whether Sc2 is just another abbreviation for Swiss Cheese 2 - could explain the numerous plot holes and "cheesiness" that everyone is noticing.

[ragnarok]

I queried that just above. I think, with what is revealed in Sc2 so far, is that Duran is hurrying up because he's afraid of Kerrigan (being the one who can stop Amon and end everything I suppose) and not meaning that he was having trouble making Hybrids until Kerrigan's induction provided the key since that would imply a very tight time course for the Hybrids in becoming a ready threat 4 years later in Sc2. Either way, he wouldn't admit any of this to Zeratul.

The problem with this solution is that it doesn't explain why Duran just didn't kill Kerrigan when he was pretending to be her lieutenant in BW. Hmm, I'm beginning to wonder whether Sc2 is just another abbreviation for Swiss Cheese 2 - could explain the numerous plot holes and "cheesiness" that everyone is noticing.

That's not the reason Duran is hurrying up, Turalyon.

The entire purpose of the hybrid (that we know at this point) is to revive Amon.

Remember, as long as the war between the Zerg and Protoss go on, each death would result in loss of psionic energy. The hybrids would gather this energy, which in turn would be transferred to Amon, and eventually revive him.

The Overmind's actions in infesting Kerrigan in the hopes to ensure the survival of the swarm meant the Zerg now had someone with a LOT more psionic energy, which in turn is exactly what Duran needed to revive his master a lot quicker than he normally would have.

For example, the time of the hybrid awakening (like Maar that Zeratul encountered on Zhakul) wouldn't have changed at all. However, the time of Amon's revival certainly would have been set back much longer.

Now, as for why Duran didn't kill Kerrigan when pretending to be her lieutenant, it's possible that he wanted to gain her trust and everything, so she wouldn't know what he was doing behind her back.

Don't forget, even in the Flashpoint book, Narud didn't initially want Kerrigan killed, which means even after the whole deinfestation, he must have believed her psionic energies could still be used as a means for his master or something like that.

[Gradius]

Like Telenil said, the zerg should have been even better at genetic manipulation than the xel'naga. I always thought Duran hung around Kerrigan to figure out how the Overmind created her. She was the first extremely successful trans-species hybrid. Once he figured out how it was done, he could do the same with his hybrids, and so he bailed. Or at least that was my fan-canon.

[ragnarok]

Like Telenil said, the zerg should have been even better at genetic manipulation than the xel'naga. I always thought Duran hung around Kerrigan to figure out how the Overmind created her. She was the first extremely successful trans-species hybrid. Once he figured out how it was done, he could do the same with his hybrids, and so he bailed. Or at least that was my fan-canon.

And I would have agreed right before I played the BW secret missions back in the day. But remember, Duran told Zeratul that the hybrid had been pre-ordained when the stars were still young.

It's just hard to say, I mean it's also possible that Duran stuck around to observe her to see how far her power would grow, and how big a threat that'd make to the hybrids.

In some ways it's still hard to say, since the hybrid dominators Kerrigan had to fight in HotS was still enough to give her a beating even with the primal infestation...

[Turalyon]

The entire purpose of the hybrid (that we know at this point) is to revive Amon.

Remember, as long as the war between the Zerg and Protoss go on, each death would result in loss of psionic energy. The hybrids would gather this energy, which in turn would be transferred to Amon, and eventually revive him.

The Overmind's actions in infesting Kerrigan in the hopes to ensure the survival of the swarm meant the Zerg now had someone with a LOT more psionic energy, which in turn is exactly what Duran needed to revive his master a lot quicker than he normally would have.

This would make sense and explain Duran's "sped up" quote as being very literal if not for the niggling issue that Infested Kerrigan's psionic energy level shouldn't be that much more than a standard Protoss (let alone an Archon which would be many times more psionically powerful). The original concept was that Kerrigan is supposed to give the Zerg an even keel to fight the Protoss, not be the end-product of its quest for perfection.The problem with having Kerrigan's importance hyper-inflated as being the bestest and most powerful psionic ever is that it defeats the purpose of the Zerg acknowledging that the Protoss are the most powerful psionics thereby wanting to become perfect by assimilating them. I guess that's why the Overmind retcon in WoL was needed to alter this original goal to being Kerrigan and that the Protoss are supposed to be no more than target fodder.

For me, I never saw Kerrigan as anything special in terms of psionic power or much more in comparison to Protoss templar. If all Duran needed was more psionic energy to revive Amon, several Protoss would be worth more in psionic power than one Kerrigan. Would be easier too since there are more Protoss than the one Kerrigan.

I can imagine that they're probably going to say something along the lines of "the Hybrids can't hoover up Protoss psionic power because of such and such" to fix that plot-hole. It's all sounding kind of "Black Soulstone-ish" to me (and please, don't get me started on that eye-roller).

Now, as for why Duran didn't kill Kerrigan when pretending to be her lieutenant, it's possible that he wanted to gain her trust and everything, so she wouldn't know what he was doing behind her back.

Don't forget, even in the Flashpoint book, Narud didn't initially want Kerrigan killed, which means even after the whole deinfestation, he must have believed her psionic energies could still be used as a means for his master or something like that.

Oh Rag, that's too lame of an excuse. I'm going to take a cue from your previous explanation above and gonna have a crack at this for you.

Given all this reliance on Macguffins which are then left to the audience to fanon into being important to justify the story, I'd imagine that Duran can't harvest her psionic energy through the Hybrids if she was merely killed because that would be too convenient and we wouldn't that . I guess that'd also be the reason why Amon couldn't have been revived sooner given that the mass slaughter of the Protoss on Aiur and Shakuras would've released more psionic energy to revive Amon or any other Xel'Naga several times over.

I assume then that's why the artifact is required to transition this psionic energy away (as HotS suggests) in a form that can be used to fuel Xel'Naga resurrection. So, Duran didn't kill Kerrigan because he still wanted to suck her energies out but didn't have access to the artifact at the time. Keep in mind, that this is all assuming that Kerrigan is actually important as an uber psionic power source.

However, given that the Hybrids capacity to absorb and use this energy to restore Amon (since he is resurrected now I believe) doesn't seem to rely on close proximity (or even within the same system or further still) nor in any great numbers (who knows, there maybe countless awakened Hybrids since Sc1 started) as far as we know, one wonders why Duran is bothering to wake more Hybrids when he should be instead focusing on creating/finding more artifacts (they're apparently "young" implying they're potentially manufactured or could be more than one/not rare) given that they are the major limiting factor in reviving Amon. It's almost as if Duran is purposefully being dense (read: writers having no sense of scope/scale) to not put equal emphasis on the second part of reviving Amon and/or leaving it to the last moment to effect. This naturally leads to more questions about the artifact - why it was found in the state it was in (separated in parts), why all of it was conveniently located in the K sector, why none of the pieces were destroyed/missing for real etc... But hey, there's probably a prophecy that dictated the artifact was going to be exactly where and when it was as needed, too.

Course, it still doesn't fully explain why Duran shouldn't just kill her anyway. If he knows of the prophecy of how Kerrigan is the only thing stopping Amon from conquering the universe, wouldn't it just be easier to kill her now and just delay Amon's resurrection just a little bit later? So what if we wakes later? The Hybrids can pretty much keep the Protoss in line whilst Duran will have all the time he needs to find/create more artifacts to siphon the psionic energy to resurrect him. Once again, this is dependent on Kerrigan actually being hyper-special to everyone (bolded for emphasis) due to writer bias.

[ragnarok]

This would make sense and explain Duran's "sped up" quote as being very literal if not for the niggling issue that Infested Kerrigan's psionic energy level shouldn't be that much more than a standard Protoss (let alone an Archon which would be many times more psionically powerful). The original concept was that Kerrigan is supposed to give the Zerg an even keel to fight the Protoss, not be the end-product of its quest for perfection.The problem with having Kerrigan's importance hyper-inflated as being the bestest and most powerful psionic ever is that it defeats the purpose of the Zerg acknowledging that the Protoss are the most powerful psionics thereby wanting to become perfect by assimilating them. I guess that's why the Overmind retcon in WoL was needed to alter this original goal to being Kerrigan and that the Protoss are supposed to be no more than target fodder.

For me, I never saw Kerrigan as anything special in terms of psionic power or much more in comparison to Protoss templar. If all Duran needed was more psionic energy to revive Amon, several Protoss would be worth more in psionic power than one Kerrigan. Would be easier too since there are more Protoss than the one Kerrigan.

I can imagine that they're probably going to say something along the lines of "the Hybrids can't hoover up Protoss psionic power because of such and such" to fix that plot-hole. It's all sounding kind of "Black Soulstone-ish" to me (and please, don't get me started on that eye-roller).

Careful, Turalyon. Did you forget about "The Amerigo" mission in the SC1 Zerg campaign? Kerrigan infiltrated that science vessel in order to fully unlock the powers of her mind. The Confederacy used ghost conditioning because her mind was too powerful, so the conditioning was a way to "cage the beast". After that mission, the cage was opened. If so, it probably just caused her psionic power to keep growing and growing. This was why by the end of SC1, she was strong enough to control half the swarm, yet by the end of the Brood War, could control the WHOLE of the swarm by herself, without the cerebrates at all.

As for the hybrids cannot hoover up Protoss psionic power, I can't see it that way.

The way I see it, if Kerrigan was never infested, then perhaps Duran would have eventually put the Xel'Naga artifact in the middle of millions of Protoss or something, activate it, kill them all, and have nearby hybrids collect all the psionic energy from that, which is then transferred to Amon.

For the Black Soulstone, I wouldn't know. I'm only in it for the SC series, I don't pay attention to the WC and Diablo series.

I assume then that's why the artifact is required to transition this psionic energy away (as HotS suggests) in a form that can be used to fuel Xel'Naga resurrection. So, Duran didn't kill Kerrigan because he still wanted to suck her energies out but didn't have access to the artifact at the time. Keep in mind, that this is all assuming that Kerrigan is actually important as an uber psionic power source.

But that doesn't make any sense. Remember, Narud was the head researcher of the Moebius Foundation. It was Moebius that gave Raynor the intel on where the artifact pieces were located. So obviously it had to be Narud who found their locations.

I guess you can argue that during the BW, Duran didn't know where the artifact pieces were or something. But if that's true, then this may suggest that the artifact was NOT created by Amon.

Think about it: if Amon made the artifact, he would have told Duran where to find them in order for his revival. Unless, of course, he was stupid and decided to test Duran to find it for himself, which would made no sense.

However, given that the Hybrids capacity to absorb and use this energy to restore Amon (since he is resurrected now I believe) doesn't seem to rely on close proximity (or even within the same system or further still) nor in any great numbers (who knows, there maybe countless awakened Hybrids since Sc1 started) as far as we know, one wonders why Duran is bothering to wake more Hybrids when he should be instead focusing on creating/finding more artifacts (they're apparently "young" implying they're potentially manufactured or could be more than one/not rare) given that they are the major limiting factor in reviving Amon. It's almost as if Duran is purposefully being dense (read: writers having no sense of scope/scale) to not put equal emphasis on the second part of reviving Amon and/or leaving it to the last moment to effect. This naturally leads to more questions about the artifact - why it was found in the state it was in (separated in parts), why all of it was conveniently located in the K sector, why none of the pieces were destroyed/missing for real etc... But hey, there's probably a prophecy that dictated the artifact was going to be exactly where and when it was as needed, too.

Well, I guess you have to look at it this way: we only have a THEORY that a nearby hybrid absorbed the psionic energy and transferred it to Amon. We don't know if that's REALLY what had happened. Hell, for all we know, it wasn't even a nearby hybrid that did the assimilating, but rather Duran himself.

Remember, he's a shapeshifter, and we saw in Phantoms of the Void he could easily take on Kerrigan's original human form. If so, then perhaps towards the end of "All In", when the human Kerrigan appeared on screen and urged Raynor to keep fighting, that was not the real Kerrigan at all, but rather Duran's shapeshifted form.

For your part of why Duran focused on awakening hybrids, it's like this:

If you recall from Hand of Darkness, even with the primal infestation, the hybrid dominators could still psionically drain Kerrigan's life force, but it would take a few minutes. It's possible that during the FIRST infestation, the hybrids could have done the same thing, but they couldn't do it INSTANTANEOUSLY.

If that's true, then Kerrigan would have time to spare and would instantly know someone was draining her. At that point, because so few hybrids had awakened, they would be no match for the swarm.

But now, despite the primal infestation, the swarm is still in the process of being rebuilt by the end of HotS. And with more and more hybrids coming online, they can all psionic attack Kerrigan all at once, which could drain her much more quickly.

[Visions of Khas]

Haha. I hadn't yet drawn the obvious parallel between the Xel'Naga Artifact and the Black Soulstone, but I did see obvious similarities between the creation myth of Diablo -- with Ainu ultimately creating Angels and Devils, which are then hybridized in Nephalem -- and the creation of the Protoss and Zerg by the Xel'Naga.

- - - Updated - - -

Haha. I hadn't yet drawn the obvious parallel between the Xel'Naga Artifact and the Black Soulstone, but I did see obvious similarities between the creation myth of Diablo -- with Ainu ultimately creating Angels and Devils, which are then hybridized in Nephalem -- and the creation of the Protoss and Zerg by the Xel'Naga.

[ragnarok]

Haha. I hadn't yet drawn the obvious parallel between the Xel'Naga Artifact and the Black Soulstone, but I did see obvious similarities between the creation myth of Diablo -- with Ainu ultimately creating Angels and Devils, which are then hybridized in Nephalem -- and the creation of the Protoss and Zerg by the Xel'Naga.

Except the hybrid is not the NATURAL Xel'Naga.

Remember, the Zerg and Protoss were to merge harmoniously to create a new generation of Xel'Naga, as stated by Zamara in the Dark Templar Saga Part 3: Twilight. It's not supposed to be genetically fused as some mutant monster.

[Visions of Khas]

Except the hybrid is not the NATURAL Xel'Naga.

How would that have happened, anyways? Would the Zerg of Zerus have eventually developed space flight? Would the Protoss have scouted out Zerus and be discovered by the psi-sensitive Zerg?

[ragnarok]

How would that have happened, anyways? Would the Zerg of Zerus have eventually developed space flight? Would the Protoss have scouted out Zerus and be discovered by the psi-sensitive Zerg?

Beats me, I think in some ways, the Xel'Naga might have encouraged the Protoss for space exploration and such or something. It's not like it took Zeratul much effort to locate Zerus, after all.