Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?

[Einharjar]

On the Prophecy issue...

The Prophecies are interpreted as prophecies by the Protoss simply because they were written by their Gods I assume; you know to make things feel overly fantasized and the Protoss get reduced to forgetful peons... This is just poor writing by forcing this whole "Prophetic Doomsday Fantasy" on an other wise acceptable Sci Fi universe.
The Prophecies are not "Prophecies", they are predictions. Just like the Overmind's vision. It's not a "fate bound event", it's a PLAUSIBLE OUT COME IF KERRIGAN DIES... get it? So yes, even the Overmind's vision is simply a prediction. Listen to it's script please. It's not a "this is going to happen, too bad. YOLO..."

Not even Zeratul is saying "Yup, can't change shit. We're doomed".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD5KmLJ3pYc

"This is our fate, SHOULD KERRIGAN DIE"... sets the tone for what I'm getting at here.

Same with the Ulaan Prophecies. They simply spell out that Amon is an Ass Hole and if he get's his way? He wins! Simple as that.
The only reason why Zamara pushes Zeratul to start spreading the word is because it's merely a prediction and she believes it's outcome is alterable. Otherwise, what's the point? Blizzard self destructing SC entirely in a blaze of trolling by letting us buy a trilogy in which the end was spelled out to us as far back as the DT saga and so the whole series is worthless? *end of LotV = Amon "HAHA, You played an entire triligy just to find out that you can't change prophecies... noobs... thanks for the monies! XOXO - Blizz" ... God I hope we're joking...

Also, we do not know when the Ulaan prophecies were written. We know by whom, other Xel'naga... but if you read my post you'd of noticed that I said "the problem is, that info was only noted at a QnA panel, so we have yet to see that actually become official literature with the exception of what we saw in WoL kind'a referring to it". Yeah... I hate it when they do that...

The prophecy's origins are new lore, Developed on the Spot most likely at that stupid Panel. That's all we have. Take it or leave it.

[ragnarok]

On the Prophecy issue...

The Prophecies are interpreted as prophecies by the Protoss simply because they were written by their Gods I assume; you know to make things feel overly fantasized and the Protoss get reduced to forgetful peons... This is just poor writing by forcing this whole "Prophetic Doomsday Fantasy" on an other wise acceptable Sci Fi universe.
The Prophecies are not "Prophecies", they are predictions. Just like the Overmind's vision. It's not a "fate bound event", it's a PLAUSABLE OUT COME IF KERRIGAN DIES... get it? So yes, even the Overmind's vision is simply a prediction. Listen to it's script please. It's not a "this is going to happen, too bad. YOLO..."

Not even Zeratul is saying "Yup, can't change shit. We're doomed".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD5KmLJ3pYc

"This is our fate, SHOULD KERRIGAN DIE"... sets the tone for what I'm getting at here.

Same with the Ulaan Prophecies. They simply spell out that Amon is an Ass Hole and if he get's his way? He wins! Simple as that.
The only reason why Zamara pushes Zeratul to start spreading the word is because it's merely a prediction and she believes it's outcome is alterable. Otherwise, what's the point? Blizzard self destructing SC entirely in a blaze of trolling by letting us buy a triligy in which the end was spelled out to us as far back as the DT saga and so the whole series is worthless? *end of LotV = Amon "HAHA, You played an entire triligy just to find out that you can't change prophecies... noobs... thanks for the monies! XOXO - Blizz" ... God I hope we're joking...

Also, we do not know when the Ulaan prophecies were written. We know by whom, other Xel'naga... but if you read my post you'd of noticed that I said "the problem is, that info was only noted at a QnA panel, so we have yet to see that actually become official literature with the exception of what we saw in WoL kind'a referring to it". Yeah... I hate it when they do that...

The prophecy's origins are new lore, Developed on the Spot most likely at that stupid Panel. That's all we have. Take it or leave it.

Thanks, Ein. That's the problem Zeratul will have to face to his people. They would just tell him that the vision is merely what the Overmind BELIEVES will happen if Kerrigan is killed. That's considered anecdotal evidence, not CONCRETE evidence.

All Zeratul can do is try to convince them it's too risky to chance it.

The part of WHEN it's written frustrates me. We can't even argue "it was written millions of years ago" because the no one has set foot on the planet for millions of years.

I don't buy that. Given the powers of the Xel'Naga, I'm almost 100% certain they can carve out writings on shrines without even setting foot on the planet AT ALL.

[Turalyon]

If it was to deal with the biggest threat of the Zerg, the Overmind should have first attacked Shakuras, not Aiur. Remember, due to the brief mind touch with Zeratul, the Overmind should have known the location of Shakuras as well. If that planet is full of Dark Templar, THEY are the bigger threat.

No, attacking Shakuras would be tantamount to suicide and would have fit better with Ein's supposition that the Overmind wanted to commit suicide than attacking Aiur. After knowing that it has a weakness exploited by this new threat and that it could run away from it to let it's secret weapon take care of them, the Overmind is not going to run into an actual hornet's nest of these newfound threats without its secret weapon. Instead, it's going to exploit a weakness in the Protoss - by attacking Aiur instead. Which, incidentally, it did.

Obviously Blizzard wasn't thinking that far, so maybe that's an answer they'd tell the fans if that Q was raised.

Doesn't make it any less an ass-pull, I'm afraid.

But the fact remains you DON'T KNOW what Kerrigan was planning in amassing the Zerg on Char for so long. All Izsha said was preparing for a great war. We saw Kerrigan was pessmistic about it, but her mood could have changed if things turned out well. It's entirely possible that if the swarm HAD assimilated the terrans and Protoss, it might have been strong enough to beat Amon. If that happened, then even under the influence, Kerrigan would have remained a threat to him. If that was the case, then it could explain why Duran had to choose the deinfestation option to reduce her power and fracture the swarm.

I see where you are coming from but you are not approaching it from Ein's assertion that Kerrigan is still under Amon's influence pre-deinfestation, which is where my points have attempted to co-opt. The amassing of Zerg forces could all be due to serve Amon's goal because she is still under his influence. Her depression would be akin to the Overmind raging in the prison of his mind because she knows she can't do anything to prevent it. There's nothing to say that she's metaphysically free in WoL (this sounds familiar but in reverse fashion to the Overmind retcon....) prior to her deinfestation. By deinfesting Kerrigan and fracturing the Zerg, thereby freeing her from Amon's influence, Duran has shot himself in the foot because he lost the one thing that was still under control and potentially begun a self-fulfilling prophecy. So you're right, we don't know anything but going by Ein's assumptions, the story is not "fixed" in his version either.

No, no, you don't understand. That's only what we saw in the Overmind's vision of the future. It's possible that by the time he passed away, he didn't know. Maybe even JUST as he was revived, he didn't know. It's possible that many only years after his revival, did he see the threat Kerrigan posed, but by then the Protoss already had a plan in mind to kill her, and succeeded.

You're flip-flopping to suit your argument as required. It's either a prophecy in the truest sense of the word and that it has some merit to the in-universe characters or it isn't and it doesn't. It can't be both or bits of both here and there as you please because that just leads to confusion because "face value" becomes meaningless and no-one knowing what to believe, even when something is later revealed to be truth (until it's not).

Likely, unless Duran had ulterior motives of his own after Amon was revived. For example, it's possible that Duran wasn't loyal to Amon at all, and after his revival, wanted all the power for himself. Therefore, he wanted Amon revived as quickly as possible so he could eventually steal his master's power. If that's the case, it could explain why he didn't kill Kerrigan and all that.

Great, you can always tell when writers struggle when they constantly resort to the "expansion pack past" trope to try and the plug the snowballing plot-holes generated from retroactive continuity. It never ends.

[ragnarok]

No, attacking Shakuras would be tantamount to suicide and would have fit better with Ein's supposition that the Overmind wanted to commit suicide than attacking Aiur. After knowing that it has a weakness exploited by this new threat and that it could run away from it to let it's secret weapon take care of them, the Overmind is not going to run into an actual hornet's nest of these newfound threats without its secret weapon. Instead, it's going to exploit a weakness in the Protoss - by attacking Aiur instead. Which, incidentally, it did.

Then what do you think would have happened if the Overmind actually WON on Aiur?

Doesn't make it any less an ass-pull, I'm afraid.

I know you don't like the answer I gave. I don't either, but it's all I can come up with for what Blizzard may reply in if the Q is raised.

I see where you are coming from but you are not approaching it from Ein's assertion that Kerrigan is still under Amon's influence pre-deinfestation, which is where my points have attempted to co-opt. The amassing of Zerg forces could all be due to serve Amon's goal because she is still under his influence. Her depression would be akin to the Overmind raging in the prison of his mind because she knows she can't do anything to prevent it. There's nothing to say that she's metaphysically free in WoL (this sounds familiar but in reverse fashion to the Overmind retcon....) prior to her deinfestation. By deinfesting Kerrigan and fracturing the Zerg, thereby freeing her from Amon's influence, Duran has shot himself in the foot because he lost the one thing that was still under control and potentially begun a self-fulfilling prophecy. So you're right, we don't know anything but going by Ein's assumptions, the story is not "fixed" in his version either.

Since you told me you never read Flashpoint, there's an important point in there I'm not sure was raised:

A lot of people thought it was Narud who told Valerian of artifact to deinfest Kerrigan and everything. That's actually not true. The REAL person who told Valerian about the artifact was Jake Ramsey, from the Dark Templar Saga trilogy. If you had read Part 3: Twilight, you would have known that Zamara had already told traces of the prophecy to him. It's possible that Jake concluded very quickly that Kerrigan's role was crucial and couldn't be killed. From that book, Jake knew someone had messed with the Xel'Naga cycle, and thus messed with the Zerg as well, so if that's true, perhaps that same "someone" had also messed with infesting Kerrigan.

So from all that, Jake must have known if the infestation could be reversed, that "messing about" might go away, hence the need for the relic. If that's true, perhaps the plan had already been in place, and Narud found out about it too late, which led him with no choice but to improvise and make the most out of the situation.

Great, you can always tell when writers struggle when they constantly resort to the "expansion pack past" trope to try and the plug the snowballing plot-holes generated from retroactive continuity. It never ends.

This is EXACTLY the drawback when you keep things too vague...

[Einharjar]

No, attacking Shakuras would be tantamount to suicide and would have fit better with Ein's supposition that the Overmind wanted to commit suicide than attacking Aiur. After knowing that it has a weakness exploited by this new threat and that it could run away from it to let it's secret weapon take care of them, the Overmind is not going to run into an actual hornet's nest of these newfound threats without its secret weapon. Instead, it's going to exploit a weakness in the Protoss - by attacking Aiur instead. Which, incidentally, it did.

Yes. Totally yes.

I see where you are coming from but you are not approaching it from Ein's assertion that Kerrigan is still under Amon's influence pre-deinfestation, which is where my points have attempted to co-opt. The amassing of Zerg forces could all be due to serve Amon's goal because she is still under his influence. Her depression would be akin to the Overmind raging in the prison of his mind because she knows she can't do anything to prevent it. There's nothing to say that she's metaphysically free in WoL (this sounds familiar but in reverse fashion to the Overmind retcon....) prior to her deinfestation. By deinfesting Kerrigan and fracturing the Zerg, thereby freeing her from Amon's influence, Duran has shot himself in the foot because he lost the one thing that was still under control and potentially begun a self-fulfilling prophecy. So you're right, we don't know anything but going by Ein's assumptions, the story is not "fixed" in his version either.

I see no problems with Duran taking his chances and improvising with *a Relic that he didn't even know was available*. That's of the relic is explained in this way. if the Relic was unknown previously but shows up in Valerian's hands thanks to Jake pointing the way, then Nurad has to improvise. He conspires with Mengsk to find a way to Kerrigan. Mengsk knows that Kerri' and Rayray had something for each other, so he suggests another person close to Rayray; Tychus. Tychus follows Jim as a method to get to Kerrigan in order to kill her while trying the double cover plot "I got out and want to spend time with you / Ok, you know I'm working for Mengsk and I'm supposed to kill you". The plot is still stupid thin; I mean placing such a risk on the "Tychus" route? Not to the level of what we'd expect from Mengsk but other than that? Maybe that's what he had to work with.
I really wish there was more to the last scene of WoL than just "We make choices - BOOM". I would've loved to have seen Tychus's character evolve (asking for better writing... a hopeless plea) from the irrational brute that he was to one who realizes Jim has moved on and is forced to pick his "One True Love! *bats eye lashes*" over his best friend who we all know by then is working for Mengsk. Oh, I can dream at least.

You're flip-flopping to suit your argument as required. It's either a prophecy in the truest sense of the word and that it has some merit to the in-universe characters or it isn't and it doesn't. It can't be both or bits of both here and there as you please because that just leads to confusion because "face value" becomes meaningless and no-one knowing what to believe, even when something is later revealed to be truth (until it's not).

I hoped I cleared things up earlier, Ragnarok. The Prophecy is just a prediction. A calculated outcome. There should be no hopping there. Consider it a strategy. For a good part of the Prophecy, Duran and Amon will already know; it's their game plan - they created the strategy for Amon's take over. However other parts are strategic estimations made by Amon's fellow Xel'naga. It predicts what he can accomplish, but doesn't include everything nor say anything is set in stone.

In effect, I've been thinking of how to meld that whole mess together. I hope to have something on it in the near future.




In other news: I've realized that we've strayed from the intentional topic of debating if the Zerg's genetic prowess was retconned with Abathur's comments about Stukov. I've come to the realization that maybe this "Microscale" comment was refering to manipulation via Psionics at a level that the Zerg, even through SC1 lore, could not achieve. Who's to say that the same manner that the Overmind was achieving to take over the Protoss is also not usable with any other DNA with some rather successful effects.
This would mean that Abathur isn't wrong; Zerg don't possess any Khydarin like instruments to manipulate genetics with; it's all done I'd, physically protein by protein. And while they can create strands of the utmost quality, even to such levels such as Kerrigan's genetics? They cannot make or remake beings purely on Psi alone. This again, requires more information on Psionics... I'm going to sound like a broken record but I'm sure all of us are by now with the "That doesn't make sense, Blizzard" we've chanted for the past 4+ years (or maybe even since 2006).

[ragnarok]

I see no problems with Duran taking his chances and improvising with *a Relic that he didn't even know was available*. That's of the relic is explained in this way. if the Relic was unknown previously but shows up in Valerian's hands thanks to Jake pointing the way, then Nurad has to improvise. He conspires with Mengsk to find a way to Kerrigan. Mengsk knows that Kerri' and Rayray had something for each other, so he suggests another person close to Rayray; Tychus. Tychus follows Jim as a method to get to Kerrigan in order to kill her while trying the double cover plot "I got out and want to spend time with you / Ok, you know I'm working for Mengsk and I'm supposed to kill you". The plot is still stupid thin; I mean placing such a risk on the "Tychus" route? Not to the level of what we'd expect from Mengsk but other than that? Maybe that's what he had to work with.
I really wish there was more to the last scene of WoL than just "We make choices - BOOM". I would've loved to have seen Tychus's character evolve (asking for better writing... a hopeless plea) from the irrational brute that he was to one who realizes Jim has moved on and is forced to pick his "One True Love! *bats eye lashes*" over his best friend who we all know by then is working for Mengsk. Oh, I can dream at least.

The way I see it, Tychus LET Raynor shoot him. You have to remember that Tychus didn't care about the rebellion or fighting the Zerg. All he cared about was the money, sit at a bar, have some drinks, and call it a night. Mengsk offered him a deal: kill the QoB and he's a free man.

Tychus would see reason in that because the Zerg are interfering with what he wanted. And throughout WoL, he continued to believe there was no way Kerrigan can return to humanity anyways. The way he saw it, if Raynor's story is true, Kerrigan died the moment the Zerg infested her, and that was years ago.

And therefore, even after Valerian told Jim about what the artifact could do, Tychus continued to believe his friend would come to his senses. Yes, he'd be heartbroken, but ultimately he'd see that Kerrigan had died a long time ago.

And then the end of WoL happened where they found Kerrigan returned to human form. At that point, Tychus couldn't do what he was ordered to do because in his POV, the QoB no longer existed. However, Mengsk was still telling him to do it. At that point, it was more about "not giving the villain what he wants." Hence the reason he let Raynor shoot him.

Besides, it's not like Tychus didn't have time. It took Raynor a while before he even turned his head. And if Tychus really WAS concerned only with his survival, he could have shot them both.

I hoped I cleared things up earlier, Ragnarok. The Prophecy is just a prediction. A calculated outcome. There should be no hopping there. Consider it a strategy. For a good part of the Prophecy, Duran and Amon will already know; it's their game plan - they created the strategy for Amon's take over. However other parts are strategic estimations made by Amon's fellow Xel'naga. It predicts what he can accomplish, but doesn't include everything nor say anything is set in stone.

In effect, I've been thinking of how to meld that whole mess together. I hope to have something on it in the near future.

Well that's nothing new. In A LOT of prophecies of ANY game, there's always something that has to be left to chance. NO ONE can make a plan that's millions of years old, and expect every detail to turn out exactly as he thought.

[Turalyon]

Then what do you think would have happened if the Overmind actually WON on Aiur?

Under the original concept (not including information from BW or the retcons in the later books and from Sc2), you get a downer ending with the Zerg being ultimate top-dog, eventually assimilating the Protoss and becoming unbeatable by anyone within that sector. Then, the Overmind thinks of what lies beyond the current galaxy on it's never-ending search for perfection. As I said previously, if the Overmind had won, the move would have been thought of as a brilliant tactical maneuver. That it happened to die (through very extenuating circumstances if one were to view the events in Sc1 pragmatically, mind you) does not mean it's move was any less competent nor due to some disguised hitherto unknown motive. The latter is especially egregious because it's an open excuse for endless back-flips and retcon into an eventual indecipherable mess - which Sc2 is rushing head long into.

Since you told me you never read Flashpoint, there's an important point in there I'm not sure was raised:

A lot of people thought it was Narud who told Valerian of artifact to deinfest Kerrigan and everything. That's actually not true. The REAL person who told Valerian about the artifact was Jake Ramsey, from the Dark Templar Saga trilogy. If you had read Part 3: Twilight, you would have known that Zamara had already told traces of the prophecy to him. It's possible that Jake concluded very quickly that Kerrigan's role was crucial and couldn't be killed. From that book, Jake knew someone had messed with the Xel'Naga cycle, and thus messed with the Zerg as well, so if that's true, perhaps that same "someone" had also messed with infesting Kerrigan.

So from all that, Jake must have known if the infestation could be reversed, that "messing about" might go away, hence the need for the relic. If that's true, perhaps the plan had already been in place, and Narud found out about it too late, which led him with no choice but to improvise and make the most out of the situation.

That's a very scenic route to get to that final supposition.

It's not terribly clear or anywhere implicit in any case. I (and a great many others I'd suspect) didn't know I had to even question the tie between Duran's of the artifacts or his knowledge (or lack thereof in this case) about them. Either way, if you're now changing your position to say "Duran had no choice to along with it because he didn't know", he should've been more proactive in hunting Kerrigan down after her deinfestation to make doubly sure she wasn't going to be a problem later on. Duran doesn't seem to be the sort of person that would rest on his laurels especially if he's supposedly believes in a prophetic threat...yet he sits around waiting for Kerrigan to find him and lay the smackdown on him after she liberally takes a detour to power-up before doing so.

This is EXACTLY the drawback when you keep things too vague...

Not really. Something that was initially and intentionally vague is fine on its own. The point was maybe to not give answers originally but to create an aura of mystery/illusion of depth. The drawback is only when you later try to step in and explain it because it will inevitably be unsatisfactory compared to the power of not knowing and that it further detracts from the main throughline of the story. For example, did I really need to know that Darth Vader is just a snot-nosed, whiny brat? Did I really need to know that Zeratul really is a doddering fool? Did I really need to know that Star Control 3 happened? etc.

[Einharjar]

The way I see it, Tychus LET Raynor shoot him. You have to remember that Tychus didn't care about the rebellion or fighting the Zerg. All he cared about was the money, sit at a bar, have some drinks, and call it a night. Mengsk offered him a deal: kill the QoB and he's a free man.

Tychus would see reason in that because the Zerg are interfering with what he wanted. And throughout WoL, he continued to believe there was no way Kerrigan can return to humanity anyways. The way he saw it, if Raynor's story is true, Kerrigan died the moment the Zerg infested her, and that was years ago.

And therefore, even after Valerian told Jim about what the artifact could do, Tychus continued to believe his friend would come to his senses. Yes, he'd be heartbroken, but ultimately he'd see that Kerrigan had died a long time ago.

And then the end of WoL happened where they found Kerrigan returned to human form. At that point, Tychus couldn't do what he was ordered to do because in his POV, the QoB no longer existed. However, Mengsk was still telling him to do it. At that point, it was more about "not giving the villain what he wants." Hence the reason he let Raynor shoot him.

Besides, it's not like Tychus didn't have time. It took Raynor a while before he even turned his head. And if Tychus really WAS concerned only with his survival, he could have shot them both.

That's exactly what I wanted to feel, but never felt it. The part where Tychus was raging in the Hyperion's bar I was hoping was a guilt trip. You can't tell me that guilt trip was because "I have to kill this Zerg queen, nooo! I can't stand it!!". Once the WoL ending happened, there was too little development for him. If his initial objective from the very beginning was to kill Kerrigan, it makes it even worse. If it was changed over time and Tychus starts to get irate from realizing he is being manipulated as much as anyone by Mengsk? ... then okay... but still the guy was stiff as a board when growing as a character.

As to Tychus actually sympathizing with Kerrigan? Doesn't make sense either. He cares for no one, barely cares for Jim in the first place. From Tychus's POV, Jim is a bastard for leaving him behind back in their outlaw days. Sure he's probably still cool with the guy deep down but in reality, he's got beef with Raynor. This "Kerrigan" chick means nothing; and Tychus's character is not one to support sympathetic symptoms. He is a cold blooded killer; one that not even Jim really could stand.

I really wanted to see Tychus ONLY kill (try to anyway) Raynor, the Marines behind them being the Dominion troops more or less reminding him Mengsk is the one orchestrating most of this and there to finish Kerrigan. If there was more development earlier, leading up to this point where Tychus realizes that he is a simple thug and Raynor is a true man with some sense of Honor? Then, he delays a shot on purpose, knowing Raynor will kill him but it's because he realizes Raynor is the better man and this "Arcturus" bastard that keeps the knife at his throat using the CMC suit as a coffin is no better than Tychus is himself.
Tychus is an A-1 Rated scum bag. He has no worth at all, accept to prove that Raynor is a better man. I wanted Tychus to be that one simpleton, worthless criminal who's only selfless act was letting his Best Friend kill him, and not Megnsk.

Well that's nothing new. In A LOT of prophecies of ANY game, there's always something that has to be left to chance. NO ONE can make a plan that's millions of years old, and expect every detail to turn out exactly as he thought.

Just note that Prophecies are different than Visions and Predictions. Prophecies are divine, visions and predictions are not and are prone to error or are open ended. Since the Xel'naga are not supposed to be divine and since the QnA panel suggests that other Xel'naga ratted out Amon's plan with a stone post-it note on Ulaan; it is a mere warning and prediction.


---------Edit-----------

It's not terribly clear or anywhere implicit in any case. I (and a great many others I'd suspect) didn't know I had to even question the tie between Duran's of the artifacts or his knowledge (or lack thereof in this case) about them. Either way, if you're now changing your position to say "Duran had no choice to along with it because he didn't know", he should've been more proactive in hunting Kerrigan down after her deinfestation to make doubly sure she wasn't going to be a problem later on. Duran doesn't seem to be the sort of person that would rest on his laurels especially if he's supposedly believes in a prophetic threat...yet he sits around waiting for Kerrigan to find him and lay the smackdown on him after she liberally takes a detour to power-up before doing so.

I had an idea that Duran simply never acted because he was watching her grow? Maybe, he does need her for something? In SCBW, I can easily say that he was monitoring her simply to make sure she was still "influenced" by Amon's corruption. Once he realized that Kerrigan was still influenced but the Overmind let her retain her sprit, he then "sped up" his progress. During those 4 years, he couldn't seek her out despite trying to seed as many Hybrids as she could because while she was still influenced by corruption, made to feel hopeless and "raging within her own mind" of sort just like the Overmind; she still had the free will enough to eventually discover the warning by the Xel'naga. Being still some what human, the influenced forced on her Hopelessness; but in this hopeless she was gearing the Zerg up for the final battle. Duran was now racing against Kerrigan's build up as well. She was seeking out other potential Terran's like herself, creating Ethan Stewart and Zerg leaders with more individuality than before. She was growing the Swarm to make it more effective in this final fight; Hybrids were going to have a tough time simply "controlling" Broods when her Swarm was diluting it's initial hierarchy into something more efficient and self operating; removing the weakness that was the old Regime the Overmind was in charge of.

When you think of it this way, there seems to be opportunity to fill out why Duran didn't act at first. He had no Hybrids to save the Swarm for the final fight with the Protoss seen in the Overmind's vision. If he killed Kerrigan in BW, the Swarm would've devoured itself.
When he gauges her power and realizes she is truly a threat by understanding that the Overmind left her with free will? He tries to gain on her militarily, but she races her end of the Arms Race too. It's a stale mate. What's worse, a rogue Dominion figure head is seeking a strange Relic! Oh snap! It appears some of Amon's brethren tried to intervene maybe? Better improvise. He manipulates his way to both Mengsks as Emil Narud and creates the plot that Tychus get's involved in while simultaneously elbow rubbing with Velarian to have access to the Relic. His only hope is to either A - Have Tychus actually succeed, killing Raynor and the Dominion removing Kerrigan entirely OR, B - have a de-infested Kerrigan of no threat and waiting to be captured by Megnsk along with Raynor. The mistake is to have underestimated the Human spirit and never realizing that Kerrigan would WILLINGLY turn Back to Zerg. Being De-infested by the Relic means she's purged of the influence now; an acceptable risk and really the only one left in this matter. Unfortunately for him, Arcturus still fears her so he does something stupid and fakes Rayray's death. Duran may have had no idea that Kerrigan would've chosen as she did.

Care to add more? Maybe we can come up with something slightly tangible?

[Turalyon]

I see no problems with Duran taking his chances and improvising with *a Relic that he didn't even know was available*. That's if the relic is explained in this way.

Since it isn't explained explicitly or implicitly that Duran doesn't know anything about the artifact, it IS a problem. Moreso because one can more easily make a case that Duran does know about the artifacts (the Moebius link with Valerian and Narud). Starting off by saying "if Duran didn't know about the artifact..." is a flight of fancy because you have to find a convolution/reinterpret some other dubious and obscure source of info to justify that setup first.

In other news: I've realized that we've strayed from the intentional topic of debating if the Zerg's genetic prowess was retconned with Abathur's comments about Stukov.

Since we're dealing with supposition, maybe Abathur's remark meant that he can't bring people back from the dead given that the last time that most people (not many people would be aware of the 64 mission Resurrection IV) saw him officially was being killed. *Shrug*

I had an idea that Duran simply never acted because he was watching her grow? Maybe, he does need her for something? In SCBW, I can easily say that he was monitoring her simply to make sure she was still "influenced" by Amon's corruption. Once he realized that Kerrigan was still influenced but the Overmind let her retain her sprit, he then "sped up" his progress.

This doesn't make sense. If Amon wanted the Overmind killed to weaken the Zerg despite it already being under its influence, I would also assume that it wanted them to be kept weakened. One can make the case that Duran is not in cahoots with Amon (which is another big 'if'), but if Duran was in on the same plan surely he would continue to keep the Zerg weakened by also killing Kerrigan, right? Who cares if she's still under Amon's influence or not, the Overmind still was or was not and Amon forced his suicide anyway (as you say, Ein). Given the chance that she could've been "free" when the Overmind died, Duran should be even more compelled to kill her straight away not just sit by and watch or wait for the artifact to free her completely so she can begin her predicted role as "ultimate threat to their plans".

When you think of it this way, there seems to be opportunity to fill out why Duran didn't act at first. He had no Hybrids to save the Swarm for the final fight with the Protoss seen in the Overmind's vision. If he killed Kerrigan in BW, the Swarm would've devoured itself.

So what if the Zerg are leaderless? He can still harvest some Zerg samples whilst they killed each other. Heck, Duran could've done that right from the get-go as Amon could've stopped the Zerg/restricted them to Zerus by not creating the Overmind/killing it in its infancy. Someone said previously that the Hybrids don't seem to need much to make (in response to me saying that numerous samples would've had to been procured to seed his numerous worlds in a short period of time if hybrids were not viable up until BW's events) such that they could've taken their time building up their Hybrid army slowly and then nuked them at any time of their choosing.

When he gauges her power and realizes she is truly a threat by understanding that the Overmind left her with free will? He tries to gain on her militarily, but she races her end of the Arms Race too. It's a stale mate.

You seem to have forgotten that Duran was right next to Kerrigan throughout the majority of the Zerg campaingn in BW. If he realised that she'd be gaining power, why would he disappear on her? He had the best opportunity then to just plainly stab her in the back metaphorically and literally speaking, finishing things right there and then! There'd be no need for an arms race nor any for the other stuff that follows/you mentioned to occur at all.

[ragnarok]

That's exactly what I wanted to feel, but never felt it. The part where Tychus was raging in the Hyperion's bar I was hoping was a guilt trip. You can't tell me that guilt trip was because "I have to kill this Zerg queen, nooo! I can't stand it!!". Once the WoL ending happened, there was too little development for him. If his initial objective from the very beginning was to kill Kerrigan, it makes it even worse. If it was changed over time and Tychus starts to get irate from realizing he is being manipulated as much as anyone by Mengsk? ... then okay... but still the guy was stiff as a board when growing as a character.

As to Tychus actually sympathizing with Kerrigan? Doesn't make sense either. He cares for no one, barely cares for Jim in the first place. From Tychus's POV, Jim is a bastard for leaving him behind back in their outlaw days. Sure he's probably still cool with the guy deep down but in reality, he's got beef with Raynor. This "Kerrigan" chick means nothing; and Tychus's character is not one to support sympathetic symptoms. He is a cold blooded killer; one that not even Jim really could stand.

I really wanted to see Tychus ONLY kill (try to anyway) Raynor, the Marines behind them being the Dominion troops more or less reminding him Mengsk is the one orchestrating most of this and there to finish Kerrigan. If there was more development earlier, leading up to this point where Tychus realizes that he is a simple thug and Raynor is a true man with some sense of Honor? Then, he delays a shot on purpose, knowing Raynor will kill him but it's because he realizes Raynor is the better man and this "Arcturus" bastard that keeps the knife at his throat using the CMC suit as a coffin is no better than Tychus is himself.
Tychus is an A-1 Rated scum bag. He has no worth at all, accept to prove that Raynor is a better man. I wanted Tychus to be that one simpleton, worthless criminal who's only selfless act was letting his Best Friend kill him, and not Megnsk.

Maybe to you. To me, I still believe Tychus carried a moral code.

That's one of those things most people don't see: hero or villain, both sides carry a moral code, however twisted that could be. It's almost impossible to find someone without ANY form of a moral code. The developers' explanation was that Tychus was not a person to kill innocent people, though I didn't think that was a very strong explanation.

I had an idea that Duran simply never acted because he was watching her grow? Maybe, he does need her for something? In SCBW, I can easily say that he was monitoring her simply to make sure she was still "influenced" by Amon's corruption. Once he realized that Kerrigan was still influenced but the Overmind let her retain her sprit, he then "sped up" his progress. During those 4 years, he couldn't seek her out despite trying to seed as many Hybrids as she could because while she was still influenced by corruption, made to feel hopeless and "raging within her own mind" of sort just like the Overmind; she still had the free will enough to eventually discover the warning by the Xel'naga. Being still some what human, the influenced forced on her Hopelessness; but in this hopeless she was gearing the Zerg up for the final battle. Duran was now racing against Kerrigan's build up as well. She was seeking out other potential Terran's like herself, creating Ethan Stewart and Zerg leaders with more individuality than before. She was growing the Swarm to make it more effective in this final fight; Hybrids were going to have a tough time simply "controlling" Broods when her Swarm was diluting it's initial hierarchy into something more efficient and self operating; removing the weakness that was the old Regime the Overmind was in charge of.

That'd make no sense. Influence or no influence, Duran had to know that after what happened at the end of Brood War, there's no possible way anyone else in the sector would listen to anything she has to say anymore. She was completely alone with the swarm now, and that's not enough to beat Amon.

In that sense, he didn't have to hurry things up with the hybrids unless the hybrid army is VERY small in number or something. It's hard to say, but from what I could see, a single hybrid is enough to control the WHOLE of the swarm if need be. After all, even with the primal infestation, Kerrigan still had a hard time fighting the hybrid dominators, and that was with the swarm fighting alongside her.

For me though, deep in Kerrigan's subconcousness, infesting Ethan Stewart was actually an experiment because she still wanted Raynor at her side. But she couldn't chance the virus until she knows it won't turn him into a mindless mutant, and this was why we saw the experiments happen on Meinhoff in WoL.

When you think of it this way, there seems to be opportunity to fill out why Duran didn't act at first. He had no Hybrids to save the Swarm for the final fight with the Protoss seen in the Overmind's vision. If he killed Kerrigan in BW, the Swarm would've devoured itself.

No it wouldn't. If you read SC Hybrid, when Kerrigan infested Amanda Haley, her Cerebrate was still alive by 2501. This means that while Cerebrates cannot live without the Overmind, they don't die INSTANTLY if the Overmind dies.

Unless, of course, Duran felt that if Kerrigan died in BW, too little of the swarm could be saved.

Duran may have had no idea that Kerrigan would've chosen as she did.

It's not about what she did or not, Duran just didn't expect Zeratul to act the way he did. He would have expected Zeratul to seek retribution against Kerrigan one way or another, not help her to Zerus.