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Thread: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

  1. #1

    Default In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    StarCraft, to be a true sequel, had to remove units to make place for new ones. Do you agree with who was cut? Why?

    In my opinion, the right choices were made when choosing which units will return and which should not come back in StarCraft II.

    Terran

    Firebat: He was decent back in the days but seriously who really used him a lot. Most player simply used him as a "support" unit while doing MnM against Zerg. In any case, I always thought that using a flamethrower was pretty uninteresting as a unit's weapon.

    Medic and dropship: Well since they got mixed together it's ok with me.

    Vulture: Here is a unit that never should have become so used on the battlefield. The vulture was supposed to be a scouting unit, not a unit that you mass to counter zealots in a TvP match. Furthermore, spamming the whole map with mines is something terribly annoying.

    Wraiths: They sucked at atg and their ata was decent but then again why use a wraith to counter air while you can make a Valkyrie or a goliath?

    Goliath: The goliath was ok but really needed something to make him more interesting, that something was everything the viking can do. The viking is a pretty interesting successor.

    Valkyrie: Only used in rare occasion against mass air. It's kinda getting more popular with the fantasy build but the design was just meh imo.

    Science Vessel: Useful unit but god was it everything but cool. It's a flying building... Really not interesting.

    Zerg

    Guardian: Replaced with a better guardian? Sounds ok to me.

    Queen: Not really a popular unit, not really good looking either. It had some interesting abilities, but her coolest ability was barely ever used (infest cc).

    Scourge: Really didn't help at making air units more useful. Enough said.

    Defiler: Dark Swarm was an annoying crap. It make useless almost every unit in the game.

    Devourer: That's supposed to be the response to carrier and bc? lol. You're better with dark swarm + hydra. Furthermore the devourer is so not cool.

    Protoss

    Dragoons: Honestly, they were ugly. Useful yes, but not bad ass enough for me. I'm glad we now have stalkers and immortal. They are way cooler.

    Scout: Most likely the most useless unit of this entire game.

    Corsair: Good unit but wasn't really symbolic enough to be kept.

    Reaver: Way too hard to micro for newcomer because wow you need to build scarabs, use a shuttle to move around and since the scarabs are retarded, place your shot well. Every units should be easy to be used but hard to master. This unit is hard to be used in the first place.

    Shuttle: Wasn't original enough. Warp prism is a worthy successor.

  2. #2

    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    Definitely agree on the part of the Firebat and Vulture. I love the Hellion (although I'd prefer "Jackal" -- sounds much cooler).

  3. #3

    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Terran

    Firebat: He was decent back in the days but seriously who really used him a lot. Most player simply used him as a "support" unit while doing MnM against Zerg. In any case, I always thought that using a flamethrower was pretty uninteresting as a unit's weapon.
    I always thought a flamethrower was a pretty cool weapon (it's plasma, not regular fire). However its stats sucked, and it was hurt worse by the lameness of concussive damage.

    When Blizzard introduced it in StarCraft II, they made it larger and mechanized, and people hated that. The marauder is a lot better for the game, though without the splash it's not really a replacement.

    Medic and dropship: Well since they got mixed together it's ok with me.
    Blizzard needs to explain again why they did this.

    It's probably good for gameplay, as the medivac dropships can't heal each other, and regular dropships were just boring. Alas, it's just not that cool a concept.

    Vulture: Here is a unit that never should have become so used on the battlefield. The vulture was supposed to be a scouting unit, not a unit that you mass to counter zealots in a TvP match. Furthermore, spamming the whole map with mines is something terribly annoying.
    If it could only scout, it would have been lame. Using it to kill zealots was cool, but ridiculously hard to do if you're not a progamer, since StarCraft I forced you to spend so much time on macro. Also, lame concussive damage, and the speed didn't seem to help much with scouting.

    Also I didn't like how you "bought" spider mines. You paid 75 minerals for three of them, then might kill the 2 supply vulture to free up your supply.

    It will appear in StarCraft II's single player, and I hope they give it an AoE attack. It's firing grenades after all!

    Wraiths: They sucked at atg and their ata was decent but then again why use a wraith to counter air while you can make a Valkyrie or a goliath?
    Wraiths =/= Valkyrie. I have no idea why you're saying that.

    They sucked at AtG and the banshee is a million times better. I scientifically determined that myself.

    The Wraith was pretty cool. Stealth is cool, having an actual space fighter is also cool, and it even looked cool. (The Viking isn't a space fighter, it's a heavily armored mecha, a bit of a lore problem. What does a Dominion space fleet look like?) However, coolness couldn't save it from its extremely limited role as capital ship killer and lame base raider.

    Goliath: The goliath was ok but really needed something to make him more interesting, that something was everything the viking can do. The viking is a pretty interesting successor.
    I agree. Now I hope the Viking does better vs ground, to make it worth its cost. Right now reapers outperform it on ground, I believe. (They do 8 damage vs light bio, and they cost less than a Viking and have charges.)

    Valkyrie: Only used in rare occasion against mass air. It's kinda getting more popular with the fantasy build but the design was just meh imo.
    Agree, agree, agree. It filled a role, but in the most boring way possible. Just like the Scout. Even worse, sine it could do nothing but its role.

    Science Vessel: Useful unit but god was it everything but cool. It's a flying building... Really not interesting.
    I kind of liked it. I like the Raven more though; it seems to be focusing on building stuff. It's a bit too similar to the science vessel; did they have to give detection to the air caster again?

    Zerg

    Guardian: Replaced with a better guardian? Sounds ok to me.
    Better? The spawning broodlings may be better, but the new brood lord has 350 hit points with only a minor boost in damage. Seems like a nerf to me. Bring back the swarm guardian!

    Queen: Not really a popular unit, not really good looking either. It had some interesting abilities, but her coolest ability was barely ever used (infest cc).
    I agree here. It was like the ghost; the coolness of the lore was not reflected in the actual unit.

    Scourge: Really didn't help at making air units more useful. Enough said.
    Yup.

    Defiler: Dark Swarm was an annoying crap. It make useless almost every unit in the game.
    I think the defiler was awesome, I loved Consume, but I found Dark Swarm frequently didn't even work! (Against units like marines, I'm not talking splash damage here.) Grrr.... It even had reasonably cool lore. The infestor is like a defiler but even cooler (burrowed movement can't be beat, the old Infestation and Fungal Scourge abilities were cooler than anything the defiler could do).

    Devourer: That's supposed to be the response to carrier and bc? lol. You're better with dark swarm + hydra. Furthermore the devourer is so not cool.
    Yeah...

    Protoss

    Dragoons: Honestly, they were ugly. Useful yes, but not bad ass enough for me. I'm glad we now have stalkers and immortal. They are way cooler.


    Coolest picture of a dragoon ever! One reason I was looking forward to StarCraft: Ghost was to see a dragoon that didn't look like crap. I hope the StarCraft II dragoon looks like that!

    Stalkers are cooler though. Blink is just awesome!

    Scout: Most likely the most useless unit of this entire game.
    Like the Wraith, but even more specialized. It was very powerful at a very specific thing. Also, it looked boring and had a bunch of specific upgrades that hardly made sense.

    Corsair: Good unit but wasn't really symbolic enough to be kept.
    I think it got removed due to lore reasons. It was way cooler than the Phoenix. While specialized, it was good at its actual role, and Disruption Web was very useful when attacking bases.

    Reaver: Way too hard to micro for newcomer because wow you need to build scarabs, use a shuttle to move around and since the scarabs are retarded, place your shot well. Every units should be easy to be used but hard to master. This unit is hard to be used in the first place.
    Most of this could have been fixed in StarCraft II, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in UMS maps. Scarab creation would have been autocast, and the scarab pathfinding would have been fixed.

    Shuttle: Wasn't original enough. Warp prism is a worthy successor.
    Yes. Warp prism is way cooler, especially the way it works with warp-in. Drooolll...

    You're missing a few units, like the dark archon.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    Do you agree with who was cut? Why?
    In most cases yes. In a few cases... not so much. Mainly, I don't think they got rid of enough. And I'm not talking about the Zerg.

    1: The Siege Tank needed to go. Yeah, I know it's iconic, blah, blah, blah, it still needed to go. And they had a great replacement: the "original" Thor (I think it's Hp back then needed a good nerfing: no way a 900Hp unit would make it). The Thor was a meatshield+ground superiority unit, but it had weaknesses against mobile clusters of units (it's AoE can't move with targets). And instead of being a thing that is useless unless it's stopped, the Thor retains utility in its mobile form (in both Hp and single-target damage), and the transition from mobility to immobility is very temporary. The turning rate thing made for an interesting weakness and so forth.

    STs just hold ground. That's what they do. They dramatically slow down the action of what is supposed to be a fast-paced and free-wheeling game. The Thor or something like it could easily have replaced it and made for a better overall game. But no, the Thor is iconic.

    2: The Carrier. Now, I've always believed that the reason they turned the Tempest into the Carrier was because they made balancing changes to the Tempest that made it nothing more than a "Carrier-lite". However, rather than reintroducing the Carrier full on, I think they should have scrapped it and the Tempest altogether, and come up with something that works on different mechanics.

    They do 8 damage vs light bio
    Small point. Reapers do 4 +4 vs light x2, so that's 16 vs. light. They're anti-light specialists.
    Last edited by Nicol Bolas; 05-14-2009 at 08:58 PM.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    Nice list, I pretty much agree. Now that we have 3 walker units for the Protoss, Im gonna hardly miss the dragoon. But the Reaver... ehhh, its a tougher loss.

    The Carrier needs something to spice it up, sure its iconic but it needs to be useful. Either that or change its look. Do something.

    I like the choices for the Terrans. The Infantry looks like it evolved, they combined old units to make new ones (Hellion, Medivac), and the Air Force look futuristic and badass. Even the Thor is starting to grow on me (yeah, kill me).

    The Zerg are getting there. I like what they did for the Queen. The new Infestor CAN be good if they come up with some good abilities. The only unit I think shouldnt have returned is the Lurker. Its just doesn't fit in, if you know what I mean.

  6. #6

    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    IMHO, each race kept MOST of the units it should have. Personally, I'd have started by keeping these units:

    Marine
    Medic
    Ghost
    Siege Tank
    BC

    Zealot
    HT
    DT
    Archon
    Corsair

    Zergling
    Overlord
    Hydralisk
    Mutalisk
    Ultralisk

    and every single other unit scrapped.

  7. #7
    Zigurd's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    I feel they scrapped too few units. These are the units I feel should have returned:

    Protoss:

    Zealot
    HT
    DT
    Archon
    Carrier (yes, deal with it. Blizz should change it in some form, but the unit is original and iconic)

    Terran:

    Marine
    Cattlebruiser
    Ghost
    Siege Tank

    Zerg:

    Zergling
    Hydra
    Ultra
    Overlord
    Muta

    The rest can go fuck themselves.

  8. #8
    Zigurd's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    IMHO, each race kept MOST of the units it should have. Personally, I'd have started by keeping these units:
    I hate you.

  9. #9

    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    Those two posts are almost the same!

  10. #10

    Default Re: In my opinion, the right choices were made.

    I'm of the opinion that the more original units scrapped, the better.

    There are some iconic units that just seem part of the game (Zealots, Marines, Zerglings, Hydras, etc), but aside from a very scant few, I'd say the more that are replaced, the better for us. New stuff=good.

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