StarCraft Player Characters

[Turalyon]

Hypothetical time: Would it be fair to think that Tassadar's "rabble" on Char would've been also been due partially to some of his forces abandoning him for not following orders and torching Tarsonis as he was supposed to do in the first place? His failed gambit at New Gettyberg cost him some Protoss lives with no result which would've irked more than just the Adjudicators I'd imagine. If Tassadar stuck to his orders, there would've been a "result" (as far as burning worlds of all life goes as a result) with minimal or no casualties.

Given that Raynor easily defeated Selendis' fleet, I doubt that Tassadar's forces in the retconned-version of Rebel Yell gave any fight.

Ah, I see. So the real reason the Protoss "lost" those battles with the Terrans were not just "suspension of disbelief" as Blizz says but the fact that the Protoss are actually and in reality, the weakest race of the three, contrary to what we are led to believe with their backstory. If this was any clearer, it would be mud by now...

Never shown that all of them were destroyed. Just because contact was lost doesn't mean that some could have survived.

*Sigh* There are a lot of things that are "not shown" in Starcraft....

Sure it justifies Kerrigan being infested and alive later on but how and why would there be any other survivors? The situation clearly shows that the SoK Terran force at New Gettysburg is effed - they've been abandoned by their only escape option in enemy territory whilst being systematically swarmed by innumerable and hostile alien monsters. Unless some of those SoK Terrans were Ghosts thereby serving a purpose for the Overmind's creation of a Zerg psionic soldier and being kept alive for that purpose, it's quite clear that the remaining SoK Terrans would've been totally wiped out.

[LestersPetZergling]

*Sigh* There are a lot of things that are "not shown" in Starcraft....

Like the Protoss retreating from New Gettysburg.

The situation clearly shows that the SoK Terran force at Wew Gettysburg is effed - they've been abandoned by their only escape option in enemy territory whilst being systematically swarmed by innumerable and hostile alien monsters.

They have plenty of escape options. Their own dropships, their own Wraiths, thousands of possible escape options.

Ah, I see. So the real reason the Protoss "lost" those battles with the Terrans were not just "suspension of disbelief" as Blizz says but the fact that the Protoss are actually and in reality, the weakest race of the three, contrary to what we are led to believe with their backstory. If this was any clearer, it would be mud by now...

At least half of Rebel Yell's missions have been retconned out of existence, so I doubt the Protoss being formidable will remain at all.

[solidsamurai]

Lester be trollin'.

[Turalyon]

Like the Protoss retreating from New Gettysburg.

Wasn't that shown in the novelisation?

As to other things not being shown, we didn't see that Raynor's memories weren't actually implanted and that's he's really a Xel'Naga (and any other equally absurd or placid things) either so, theoretically, nothing can be taken for granted when taking a "well, it wasn't shown so that explains why this shit happened" approach.

They have plenty of escape options. Their own dropships, their own Wraiths, thousands of possible escape options.

Yeah, as many options as Zerg had their bases covered for such attempts. It's like that when you get smothered.

At least half of Rebel Yell's missions have been retconned out of existence, so I doubt the Protoss being formidable will remain at all.

And yet they will be responsible for stopping an even more ancient and powerful evil than the Overmind (who happened to hand their arses back to them) in LotV. Go figure.

[LestersPetZergling]

Wasn't that shown in the novelisation?

As to other things not being shown, we didn't see that Raynor's memories weren't actually implanted and that's he's really a Xel'Naga (and any other equally absurd or placid things) either so, theoretically, nothing can be taken for granted when taking a "well, it wasn't shown so that explains why this shit happened" approach.

I'm talking about how in the game nothing suggests the Protoss wasn't destroyed.

You could do it in-game easily.

[Turalyon]

^ Eh, chalk it up to story-gameplay segregation shenanigans. The Protoss force is destroyed but Tassadar still has a command fleet somewhere aways so technically it could still be said the Protoss "retreated". There's a lot of latitude when you start throwing around "well, it wasn't shown for such and such to happen".

[LestersPetZergling]

Another point. If Tassadar decided to leave Tarsonis, then why is the Protoss forces in such utter disarray? Some returning to Aiur, some going to Char, some fighting on Tarsonis. The Executor's fleet got shattered into pieces.

Personally, it isn't that big of a deal. In Rebel Yell, you had just commited the indirect-murder of billions. Defeating the Protoss and losing Kerrigan and your forces isn't that bad of a deal. It also makes things more horrifying in Episode III due to how much more of a force you could have had to combat the Zerg, and the Protoss were actually good guys not wanting to kill everything.

So basically: Beating the Protoss turns out to be no victory at all. You score a massive victory for the Overmind.

[Turalyon]

Another point. If Tassadar decided to leave Tarsonis, then why is the Protoss forces in such utter disarray? Some returning to Aiur, some going to Char, some fighting on Tarsonis. The Executor's fleet got shattered into pieces.

My hypothetical earlier touches on this. The Protoss loss at New Gettysburg caused the Protoss armies to fracture sure but not "shattered" solely due to SoK Terran might. The Confederacy doesn't exactly fold or become shattered when Duke defects or their various armies are smashed in their various encounters with the SoK during Rebel Yell. Also, we are given the impression that the SoK are actually too small to fight the Confederacy head on so what chance would they have against an Executor/High Commander of the entire Protoss Templar military machine (an alien military machine that is many more times powerful than the Confederate armies mind you)?

I'm not doubting that the Protoss lost a physical engagement against the SoK Terrans, I am doubting the severity of the actual physical damage (material and personnel loss) the Protoss incurred as being the direct reason for their withdrawal. It is unknown whether the Protoss forces at New Gettysburg are the actual entire fleet of the Executor or not - it could just as easily have been a sortie force for all we know. Afterall, the SoK Terran base is only a portion of their forces and the SoK aren't "crippled" when they lose this investment. The Protoss base, comparatively, isn't really that much larger - though that would be a given anyway since it's the forces of the frickin' Protoss Executor, Tassadar we're talking about - so why would that somehow represent the majority of the Protoss' military capability? It is possible that this failed sortie was the impetus for the Protoss being in "disarray". Due to the indecisive (and disobedient) actions of Tassadar at New Gettysburg leading to the unnecessary loss Protoss lives (when compared to the outcome had he followed his original orders), I wouldn't be surprised that some of his forces would lose faith in him and go back home.

In Rebel Yell, you had just commited the indirect-murder of billions. Defeating the Protoss and losing Kerrigan and your forces isn't that bad of a deal. It also makes things more horrifying in Episode III due to how much more of a force you could have had to combat the Zerg, and the Protoss were actually good guys not wanting to kill everything.

I'm not sure whose point of view you're adopting here. From another perspective, that the Protoss could've had more forces to combat the Zerg in Episode III just exemplifies how much of a blunder Tassadar made at New Gettysburg at not decisively burning Tarsonis immediately and wasting time and Protoss lives trying to engage the Zerg in direct conflict.

Also, the Protoss are not technically "good guys not wanting to kill everything" since they'd already torched a couple Terran worlds already before Tassadar's conscience finally caught up with him.

So basically: Beating the Protoss turns out to be no victory at all. You score a massive victory for the Overmind.

This outcome can only "appreciated" in hindsight. On the flipside, it's actually more of a victory than we ever knew because it allowed the creation of the Queen of Blades... you know, the saviour of the Zerg and the bane of Amon's plans for Armageddon!

[LestersPetZergling]

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[LestersPetZergling]

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