StarCraft Player Characters

[Kimera757]

Hypothetical time: Would it be fair to think that Tassadar's "rabble" on Char would've been also been due partially to some of his forces abandoning him for not following orders and torching Tarsonis as he was supposed to do in the first place? His failed gambit at New Gettyberg cost him some Protoss lives with no result which would've irked more than just the Adjudicators I'd imagine. If Tassadar stuck to his orders, there would've been a "result" (as far as burning worlds of all life goes as a result) with minimal or no casualties.

This was explained. He wasn't abandoned, but told his warriors to go home, except those he could carry in his flagship. Once stuck on Char, there was no opportunity to defect, even for those that hated the Dark Templar.

[Turalyon]

This was explained. He wasn't abandoned, but told his warriors to go home, except those he could carry in his flagship. Once stuck on Char, there was no opportunity to defect, even for those that hated the Dark Templar.

The games never really elaborate on this but the novels' clarification of this event sounds like just another stupid move made by Tassadar. According to the wiki, the "psychic cry" that Tassadar picks up tells him that Char is the Zerg base of operations and then he sends all his forces home and investigates essentially by himself? What a stupid move!! Why not use the opportunity while he still had command of his huge army to investigate and lay waste to the cause of the initial infestation he was sent out to investigate in the first place?

My alternative hypothetical of some of Tassadar's forces "leaving" him would have made Tassadar's choice of investigating this "psychic cry" a forced one (but also meritorious in that what he could potentially find there could redeem him of his failure at New Gettysburg) since the alternative would be going back to Aiur with those forces and facing up to his failure or that those returning forces would rat on him once they got back to Aiur and the Judicator's would be wanting to recall him back either way.

I'll give you an analogy.

The Sons of Korhal are the United States.

The Confederacy are Japan.

The Psi-Emitters/Swarm are the atomic bomb.

Defeat was inevitable for Japan, but the United States wanted to end the war quickly. So, they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Sons of Korhal used the Psi-Emitters on (Antiga Prime and) Tarsonis. Just because the Sons used Psi-Emitters, doesn't mean that they couldn't achieve victory without them -- just like how the Allies would still have won without nukes.

The problem with analogies is that they don't necessarily mean that both things are synonymous/interchangeable. As such, your analogy can only go so far.

The Confederacy are not Japan in that they (the Confederacy) actually held dominion over all of the Terrans (in your analogy this would be the whole world) prior to the war. The SoK are not the U.S because the former had limited resources, had no powerful allies (they were just an independent pirate group afterall) and were not actually capable of fighting an actual war of attrition unlike the latter. Information from the game and manual do not suggest that the SoK could have actually done anything to the Confederacy had it not been for the Swarm.

In addition, the Fringe Worlds were thrown into rebellion and most of them joined the Sons. Not to mention the Umojan Protectorate was backing the Sons, and probably the Kel-Morian Combine. With the combined forces, they could quite easily take on the Confederacy.

I sense a bit of revisionism going on here from the novels since none of this is implied in the game itself. The only fringe world rebellion we know at the time was the Antigans before being themselves, largely snuffed out by the Protoss.

Even though the mission on the Protoss ship in Heart of the Swarm contradicts this;

The Protoss have highly advanced sensors. They could measure the life-forms on a ship, whether they were Zerg or Terran, and so on. They had observers, advanced cloaking -- they could have easily have scouted the colonies to find them almost entirely deserted of Terrans.

This is irrelevant, since the initial standing orders from the Adjudicator caste to Tassadar was to incinerate the "worthless" Terrans if there was any hint of infestation. The Protoss are not morally good.

I.E -- the Protoss purified Chau Sara after all normal life was eradicated beyond repair, most likely. And Mar Sara was evacuated. The Protoss were smart-people. It's beyond doubt that they knew that Mar Sara was evacuated. And so on. So Tassadar probably did very little damage to Terran life.

Tarsonis is a whole-different matter. It is still heavily populated, and so on.

Tassadar's motivations for his actions are not synonymous with the motivations of all other Protoss in general. Tassadar's morally good actions are his own and not anyone (let alone the Protoss at large) elses.

Besides, I'm forming my opinions from what the initial game showed us. The Protoss actions of torching those Terran worlds were purposefully made to be morally ambiguous because it fuels the conflict and dynamic of the Protoss and Terran as being enemies. It's this current revision of the Protoss as being "good" which has hampered and restricted showing Terran vs Protoss battles without them being arbitrarily and artificially forced now - just look at Sc2's portrayal of Tal'Darim and Selendis should you need further proof of this point.

If he had tried to purify it, the Overmind would have most likely instantly left (like it tried to do in the final cinematic of StarCraft). He had to take the Zerg head-on, else they would escape.

We'd be going into more hypotheticals from this point on but I'd guess that it would result in a protracted stalemate between the Zerg and Protoss since the Zerg would continue to keep encroaching on the Terrans due to the Overmind's intent of finding assimilable psionic potential and their capacity to keep do so because of their large numbers whilst the Protoss would continue to dance around and engage them from a distance. The tipping point was Kerrigan - without her psychic scream bringing all the other parties to Char and all the events flowing from that (including Zeratul's slaying of Zasz and the Overmind's subsequent knowledge of Aiur), it's anyone's guess how things would have turned out except perhaps the Terrans most likely being exterminated had the Zerg-Protoss stalemate continued.

I'm talking about how horrifically ironic it is that you defeat the Protoss, and the repercussions of this are bad; draining the Protoss' forces when they are revealed to be the 'good guys', and you actually made things worse.

Well, from this perspective I do agree that it was deliciously ironic the way it turned out.

If we teamed up with the Protoss, it's likely we could have seriously wounded the Swarm. We could possibly have killed Cerebrates without Dark Templar -- I don't see how you can resurrect a Cerebrate if you drop a nuke on it and atomize it. Maybe Terran psionics use psionics similar to the Void.

So it's entirely possible that the Swarm could have been defeated right there. And without the Zerg, the Hybrids would have been easily defeated.

This is all quite debatable one way or another. Without the capture of Kerrigan, would the Zerg still be as confident as they were in setting up shop on Char? If not, the Overmind may well have still been afraid and cautious of the Protoss and not allow any of its cerebrates to be within reach of the Protoss because it's without having an assurance of a "determinant".

As to the killing of Cerebrates it's not quite definitive that all that they are resides wholly within their current physical forms. I've always taken the hivemind concept of the Overmind as being wholly contained within and throughout the entire Zerg swarm such that there is level of redundancy if something were to happen. It kind of explains why the Overmind can be regrown again separately apart from its original body which wasn't even atomised.

[Gradius]

Another point. If Tassadar decided to leave Tarsonis, then why is the Protoss forces in such utter disarray? Some returning to Aiur, some going to Char, some fighting on Tarsonis. The Executor's fleet got shattered into pieces.

No, the ones on Tarsonis & Char are Tassadar's remnants. The main fleet retreated after the fall of Tarsonis as the narrative intro to the zerg campaign tells you:

Shortly after the fall of the Terran capitol world of Tarsonis, the main Protoss fleet abandoned the Terran Sector. Now, efforts continue on Tarsonis to weed out the remaining Protoss forces.

Kerrigan's forces got caught between a rock (zerg) and a hard place (protoss), and all evidence points to the fact that they were crushed. Kerrigan defeated a small group of protoss, which delayed them enough to allow the zerg to finish the Confederates.

[LestersPetZergling]

No, the ones on Tarsonis & Char are Tassadar's remnants.

Tassadar's forces on Char are far too small to be the ground-forces post-New Gettysburg that were still 'fighting' the Zerg on the core-continents of Tarsonis.

Kerrigan's forces got caught between a rock (zerg) and a hard place (protoss), and all evidence points to the fact that they were crushed. Kerrigan defeated a small group of protoss, which delayed them enough to allow the zerg to finish the Confederates.

ADJUTANT: I've picked up several dozen Protoss warships descending upon Tarsonis. They seem to be heading on a direct course to the primary Zerg Hive.


I can hear you thinking "Those 'dozens' of warships are just fighters (Scouts)". Why would the StarCraft 1 Protoss (not the stupid Protoss) just send some fighters against the Primary Zerg Hive-Cluster?

And they 'delayed' the Protoss? You're saying that killing the entire Protoss force in the area is 'delaying' them? So when Kerrigan destroyed the UED retreating in Brood War, she was just 'delaying' them?

The player-characters have demonstrated themselves time and time again to be mastermind tacticians. It's not really a big-deal that they win a few times with all their losses.

[Gradius]

Tassadar's forces on Char are far too small to be the ground-forces post-New Gettysburg that were still 'fighting' the Zerg on the core-continents of Tarsonis.

Based on what exactly?

ADJUTANT: I've picked up several dozen Protoss warships descending upon Tarsonis. They seem to be heading on a direct course to the primary Zerg Hive.

I can hear you thinking "Those 'dozens' of warships are just fighters (Scouts)". Why would the StarCraft 1 Protoss (not the stupid Protoss) just send some fighters against the Primary Zerg Hive-Cluster?

There is no evidence that Kerrigan fought every single warship at New Gettysburg. The Protoss were coming to save the entire planet, evidenced by the fact that they're still fighting across the core continent of Tarsonis when Kerrigan's force gets destroyed.

And they 'delayed' the Protoss? You're saying that killing the entire Protoss force in the area is 'delaying' them? So when Kerrigan destroyed the UED retreating in Brood War, she was just 'delaying' them?

"Shortly after DuGalle's defeat, the remainder
of the UED Fleet was overtaken by Kerrigan's
forces and eradicated. No UED vessel ever
made it back to Earth to report what had
transpired."

vs.

"The fleet has lost contact with the ground forces at New Gettysburg. General Mengsk has ordered the immediate disengagement of the Korhal fleet from the Tarsonian system. Protoss and Zerg forces continue to battle across the core continent of Tarsonis. "

Tell me which one of these sounds like a win for Kerrigan? This is why I hate false analogies.

The player-characters have demonstrated themselves time and time again to be mastermind tacticians. It's not really a big-deal that they win a few times with all their losses.

And I'm not saying he lost.

[LestersPetZergling]

Based on what exactly?

I don't think that the Protoss present with him in Queen of Blades were enough to fight the ZERG SWARM across an entire world...

Tell me which one of these sounds like a win for Kerrigan? This is why I hate false analogies.

Well in one, she becomes the most powerful psionic in the universe, setting up her ascension to control the Swarm.

And in addition, she furthers the prophecy to save the universe from destruction.

So New Gettysburg was actually more of a victory for Kerrigan then Char Aleph.

[Gradius]

I don't think that the Protoss present with him in Queen of Blades were enough to fight the ZERG SWARM across an entire world...

But they fought with them in the book and in the game.

Queen of Blades is part of the reason the lore got butchered btw. Raynor could have had an actual fleet and the battle of Aiur & Wings of Liberty could have made more sense if Rosenberg didn't decide to destroy all of Raynor's battlecruisers for no reason (not even in actual battle).

[LestersPetZergling]

Incorrect. Raynor didn't have any other battlecruiser then the Hyperion, his fleet was comprised of smaller ships. With a few hundred men, it would be impossible to man anything more then a single battlecruiser and smaller ships.

Queen of Blades is part of the reason the lore got butchered btw.

This guy did a kamikaze strike against StarCraft long before Queen of Blades came out...

[Gradius]

Incorrect. Raynor didn't have any other battlecruiser then the Hyperion, his fleet was comprised of smaller ships. With a few hundred men, it would be impossible to man anything more then a single battlecruiser and smaller ships.

Er, no. We don't know the minimum crew requirement for a battlecruiser. Mengsk worried that the fleet would have been crippled by Raynor in case of another zerg attack. Obviously, he wouldn't be worried if Raynor stole only transports. It doesn't say what type of ships Raynor had, but the Dylarian shipyards house battlecruisers and it would have been nice to say that he had a fleet on Aiur instead of a single ship, which is just nonsensical.

[solidsamurai]

That hidden mission where the commander 'spearheads' the assault, sounds an awful lot like a promotion. Duke probably initially outranked him. Also, in the dominion, the commander probably would've been made into another general if he didn't join the raiders.

and it would have been nice to say that he had a fleet on Aiur instead of a single ship, which is just nonsensical.

Indeed. One of the episode 3 cinematics shows multiple battlecruisers warping in. Or was it just one? I can't be bothered to remember. Either way, it's impossible to tell since SC 2 changed the hyperion's aesthetic anyway.