What Are You Reading?

[Nissa]

I'm partway through Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's okay so far, but I'm not through the meat of it yet.

Strange...y'know, there seems to be a fundamental difference between people who survived the Holocaust and people who were in communist prison camps. People who were holocaust prisoners seem darker and more austere compared to those I've read who made it through the communist camps. Granted I haven't read enough testimonials to make a proper comparison, but those I've read who were captured by nazis (Elie Wiesel, Viktor Frankl) have a considerable darker outlook than people like Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Kang Chol-Hwan, and Eugen Loebl. All three of the latter guys are from different communist countries, too.

[TheEconomist]

And I thought the things I read were depressing.

But that is an interesting conclusion that I am interested in hearing more of your opinion on. Have you noticed a difference in the treatment between camps? Were the nazis more brutal? Or was communist propaganda an influence? Maybe a loss of religion has something to do with it? Going from religious to losing all faith in God might change the way that a person deals with tragedy compared to an atheist. I dunno, it's been so long since I read Elie Wiesel and I had absolutely zero interest in it when I did. Did Elie lose faith or not?

I'm now off to go read about fake troubles in fake worlds and feel fake sympathy for fake people. Bliss.

particularly the whole intro describing the pizza delivery business and all. But I definitely prefer it to Neuromancer.

I'm definitely getting a more philosophical, socially aware vibe from Snow Crash than I did from Neuromancer. While Neuromancer did have that, Snow Crash has that on a whole other level. I've also found the cyberpunk genre to be surpirisingly meaningful to me, as an economist to be, it's got a lot of questions and scenarios that I have an interest in. The pizza delivery business was definitely interesting and humorous to me. Sucked me in from the beginning and I knew I was in for a treat. Definitely going to want to start reading more and more of the genre.

Other than the obvious William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, and Richard Morgan books, do you have any recommendations?

I'm starting on Three Musketeers, by Alexander Dumas.

Have you read The Count of Monte Cristo? To date, that stands as the only book I've been forced to read in school that I actually enjoyed. I even bought the book for my personal use and got a ways through it. Despite usually hating things that were forced on me, having the experience forever ruined by that, and not being particularly interested in the setting or the time, I really enjoyed the book. That's a testament to its quality.

[Nissa]

And I thought the things I read were depressing.

But that is an interesting conclusion that I am interested in hearing more of your opinion on. Have you noticed a difference in the treatment between camps? Were the nazis more brutal? Or was communist propaganda an influence? Maybe a loss of religion has something to do with it? Going from religious to losing all faith in God might change the way that a person deals with tragedy compared to an atheist. I dunno, it's been so long since I read Elie Wiesel and I had absolutely zero interest in it when I did. Did Elie lose faith or not?

I'm now off to go read about fake troubles in fake worlds and feel fake sympathy for fake people. Bliss.

Lol.

I actually have no idea if Elie Wiesel lost his faith or not. It's been a while since I was forced to read his book in school, and I was about as impressed with it as you are.

I'm not sure if there's a huge difference between the camps of both concepts. Nazis based their own camps on commie ones, and the best ways to psychologically damage a person don't change per location. Where there is a huge difference is in the world outside the camps, and the reasons why the prisoners are taken in. For the nazis, it was about ethnic cleansing and eliminating the crippled. That's a clear, up front reason for getting rid of people. Also, it's an unlimited one. There is no specified end to the stay of a prisoner in a nazi camp. While the Soviets often gave their prisoners extra sentences or exiled them, they always gave the prisoners a certain number of years for a sentence. Viktor Frankl mentioned that hope for a future is the main reason people live, and if a prisoner doesn't believe they have a future, then he's dead.

Also, the nazis lived in a better country. Until the end of WWII, the normal populace wasn't starving, and in fact the invading Soviets were surprised at how organized and clean the place was. If you've noticed, the countries that normally adopt communism are the poorest ones, that is, the ones that feel the most sorry for themselves and have less industry. Thus, the normal citizens of communist countries have a lower standard of life. Once one of them becomes a prisoner and then is miraculously released or escapes, the normal pains of life become nothing. This is especially so since communism is not race-based. While there were many anti-Semites in communism, this didn't stop them from arresting anyone of any race or social status to fill up their quotas. In essence, they never successfully labelled their prisoners as somehow inferior.

But that's all theory. I'd have to read a lot more to come to any real conclusion.

As far as faith goes, I don't know how that correctly relates, other than it made people survive. Those with faith were more likely to not only live, but live happier. Those who didn't were likely to die. It's all about what Frankl said about having a future. Those who believe in God have a future, and so they can live even when they don't appear to. In fact, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn confessed that before he was arrested, he was an arrogant, self-entitled soldier. The prison sentence he suffered made him a better person and a believer.

While it's possible some lost their faith, I don't know much on that end. It's pretty clear, however, that a person's faith, or strength, or stubbornness is what entitles them to survive. Atheism has no benefits, and in the case of lost faith, is a signal of a person who will give up soon.

[TheEconomist]

What did you mean by darker? Typically, when you add dark to describe something in literature it usually means pertaining to various supernatural themes. Hence why I asked about the religon. But maybe I've been reading too much dark fantasy, grim dark horror, and dark science fiction at the moment. Probably should have interpreted your phrase as pessimistic or something similar.

You're right about religion in a concentration camp though. I remember talking to Squibb some years back where he said religion was just a comforting fairy tale and I told him that being an atheist was a luxury and, partially serious, that there were no atheists in the concentration camps, meaning that everyone was looking for a God even if they didn't believe in one.


So, on a cheerier note. Anyone seen the movie Interstellar? Saw it last week. Pretty damn good, even if it cheesed out a bit. I didn't think they made science fiction like that anymore. Just more reason why Christopher Nolan is my favorite director of the moment and I go to see anything he puts out.

[Gradius]

So, on a cheerier note. Anyone seen the movie Interstellar? Saw it last week. Pretty damn good, even if it cheesed out a bit. I didn't think they made science fiction like that anymore. Just more reason why Christopher Nolan is my favorite director of the moment and I go to see anything he puts out.

Yeah good shit. I appreciated that it stayed true to actual science, for the most part. They actually got real scientists to review the plot. Lots of the scenes were shot without a green screen.

I saw the Matt Damon plot twist coming the moment he woke up. :P

[TheEconomist]

I saw the Matt Damon plot twist coming the moment he woke up. :P

Yeah, I caught on to that pretty early too. I even figured out the ending black hole and all when at the first mention of a ghost

Still enjoyed it. Awesome soundtrack too. Been going to sleep with it for a few days now.


Thinking about watching the movie to Solaris soon. It has George Clooney in it. I'm guessing that means it might be almost watchable?

[Turalyon]

I even figured out the ending black hole and all when at the first mention of a ghost

Guess I wasn't the only one in figuring this out from the start, too. Not that it spoiled my enjoyment of the film at all.

[Nissa]

What did you mean by darker? Typically, when you add dark to describe something in literature it usually means pertaining to various supernatural themes. Hence why I asked about the religon. But maybe I've been reading too much dark fantasy, grim dark horror, and dark science fiction at the moment. Probably should have interpreted your phrase as pessimistic or something similar.

You're right about religion in a concentration camp though. I remember talking to Squibb some years back where he said religion was just a comforting fairy tale and I told him that being an atheist was a luxury and, partially serious, that there were no atheists in the concentration camps, meaning that everyone was looking for a God even if they didn't believe in one.

Yeah, I did mean pessimistic, but a bit more than that. The trouble with the way I talk is that I'm synaesthetic, so I tend to say things that only make tactile sense. It's hard to pick out the most effective words for my points, sometimes.

Atheism isn't a luxury. Neither was I implying that everyone in prison had "faith". Squibb's comment was entirely wrong, and is the sort of blanket statement that only a person who doesn't read much on the topic would say. People did not actively pursue God simply for being imprisoned. Neither was Solzhenitsyn's conversion a simple habit that arose from being in a place where he had no hope. I'm pretty offended at the oversimplification of Squibb's statement. People are complex critters, and any group of them in any place is going to have multiple reactions to the same stimuli. It's simply that when all the other distractions and luxuries of life are taken away, this is when the prisoner is truly alone and able to consider the true circumstances of his life. Even then, he still has the "luxury" of ignoring or blaming God. Aigoo. Oversimplifications piss me off like nothing else.

Maybe I'm being sensitive, but the commie period is the segment of history I'm most into, and I'm liable to rant and rave on the matter.

[TheEconomist]

https://www.facebook.com/FinalFantas...=page_internal

I'm afraid I might have had a mental breakdown. Through sheer happenstance I learned of a high-quality, almost publishable fan fiction novelization of Final Fantasy VII. Not the usual trash, and it's of one of my favorite and most nostalgic games. I dropped everything I was reading and decided to stick to this. I doubt I'll finish it, but I've been reading it for about thirty minutes straight right now, and that's pretty damn rare for fan fiction.

What is happening to me?

[Nissa]

You're losing your touch. Quick! Down an American brand beer and insult Squibb again!