Why didn't the Confederacy activate the Psi Disruptor when Mengsk released the Zerg?

[Turalyon]

And it isn't a retcon. It doesn't contradict previous lore.

I was referring to the UPL/UED keeping tabs on the wayward K sector Terrans when initially the backstory clearly mentions the supercarriers had lost all contact with Earth. If you value retcons as being contradictions (because some do not necessarily involve contradiction) then there you have it. Either way, at the least it's an additive retcon which is not to say it's necessarily a bad or good thing.

It was apart of the Starcraft 1 game. It came with it. Its canon and apart of Starcraft 1.

You can't just decide what parts of Starcraft 1 "don't fit with your perceived image of the game" and mentally disconnect from it. It's a 'proper' campaign and it foreshadowed the whole "Zerg can be taken over by other factions if they have access to a part of the hive mind" schtick.

That's the funny thing with "canon". You can say anything is "canon" to justify utter bullshit if you want - doesn't make it any more palatable, reasonable or invulnerable to criticism. It's kinda like the case with the EU in general. Having to know and rely on what is essentially miscellaneous and seemingly privileged/cloistered information to even basically understand what is going on now just makes the whole thing easier to mentally disconnect from the thing in my opinion.

Besides, it not solely my "perceived image" but how the game makes you perceive it as well. In Sc1, the meat of the lore is in the manual and the main campaigns - the portrayal of the Terrans are quite consistent in the distinct feel of them being down-to-earth, backward, ignorant of the wider view of things and rustic. This contrasts with the blase way in which it portrays Schezar, a single human, somehow being so much smarter, more knowledgeable than the Zerg and the Protoss (he figures out special Protoss technology and understand how to use Khaydarin crystals to usurp control of Zerg brood when the Overmind was still around) and being so powerful. That the campaigns were also hidden away and cheaply developed does not exactly scream "Yes! Everything is true here!" either.

Its from an extra map.

See above.

Its from Brood Wars Enslaver campaign. The sequel to the first one. You know. The missions that introduced Ulrezaj as a character?

Oh that explains it. Guess I'm not a true fan then since I genuinely didn't know there was a sequel to the Enslavers campaign after all this time.

Still doesn't take anything away from what I've said above.

There is no proof that he gave this tech to them though.

We can play this game forever... There's no proof Duran didn't give this tech to them either. That there are Terran facilities there at all is completely arbitrary.

This was in the manual.

And the part where it says the nuclear missiles were capable of flying faster-than-light (justifying the Terrans were always super "crazy tech guys") was where? Oh, that's right that clarification came later... as I've been saying all along.

The "In a single instant" part refers to how quickly the colony disappeared as the nukes hit, not how fast they were flying.

You seem to be making very, very clear cut lines between what you consider apart of Starcraft 1.

I consider Starcraft 1/Brood War to be pretty much the same game, along with all of the authorized map packs.

Of course, I'm trying to contextualise my opinion by establishing a frame of reference just as you are.

Oh well. Agree to disagree?

Done! That was easy.. no blood shed at all in the end.

[LestersPetZergling]

It's because Schezar was a UED-agent.

No, for the love of god, not everything making the Korpuluans non-backwater hicks is in the EU. Who did we even see? We saw some hick scavengers. We saw some guys renacting Aliens, we didn't exactly get a good look at anything more then some cannon fodder.

In the original StarCraft... I doubt you saw any Umojan or Kel-Morian forces. Look how many SoK troops there are alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6bVj-nTkiU

Okay, and in the 2200s the Terrans were 50,000 people (excluding the KMC and Umojans who I just said don't count). Look how much they accomplished in three hundred years.

[TSCR]

This is the only forum I know where threads can go off-topic and nobody cares.

I wonder if it was ever explained how the Psi Disruptor worked and if so why would it be unfeasible for the Confederaccy to create one?

[LestersPetZergling]

Overmind = psionic, relays commands psionically to Cerebrates
Cerebrate = psionic, relays commands psionically to Overlords/Queens
Queens/Overlords = psionic, relays commands psionically to Zerg warriors/workers.
Zerg Warriors/Workers = Mindless, require command else they revert to feral instincts, even fighting themselves.

Get something that disrupts psionic control... That's a Psi-Disruptor. As I have said, it probably wasn't used because it would disrupt psionics regardless of race. And Terrans were minor psionics, and it would probably roast their brains.

The Confederacy was well-versed in controlling psionics. Kerrigan became a Ghost when she was a little girl, decades before Tarsonis fell. She needed to go to a science-vessel to remove her conditioning.

But the Dominion actually was on Tarsonis for a number of reasons, like visiting the Ghost Academy to discover old-Confederate secrets.

Remember that the rulers of the Confederacy were voluntary-UPL subjects. They had A.T.L.A.S. and a lot of technology. A.T.L.A.S. also discovered that the Terrans were developing psionics.

So Turalyon, I really think you think Mar Sara-salvage teams and resocialized marines are the norm.

[Turalyon]

This is the only forum I know where threads can go off-topic and nobody cares.

Yeah it tends to happen when there's not much more to say on the topic itself.

I wonder if it was ever explained how the Psi Disruptor worked and if so why would it be unfeasible for the Confederaccy to create one?

The Psi-Disruptor worked by destabilising psionic command of higher up Zerg entities over their minions - it's explained in BW. The argument around the reason why it was unfeasible for the Confederacy depends on whether you're prepared to take on aboard certain assumptions and leaps of logic.

Get something that disrupts psionic control... That's a Psi-Disruptor. As I have said, it probably wasn't used because it would disrupt psionics regardless of race. And Terrans were minor psionics, and it would probably roast their brains.

And you get the assumption that all psionics are the same how? It kinda defeats the purpose of the Overmind's original intent on assimilating the Terrans psionic potential if it already has psionic potential. Clearly, there are different types of psionics at play here.

The question remains as to how the Terrans are able to parse an ancient and unknown alien lifeforms psionics that works fundamentally different to anything else known in the universe at the time and then use it against them when they themselves are just in the infancy of understanding their own psionic potential.

So Turalyon, I really think you think Mar Sara-salvage teams and resocialized marines are the norm.

Well, when you're given eggs...

[Shadow Archon]

I was referring to the UPL/UED keeping tabs on the wayward K sector Terrans when initially the backstory clearly mentions the supercarriers had lost all contact with Earth. If you value retcons as being contradictions (because some do not necessarily involve contradiction) then there you have it. Either way, at the least it's an additive retcon which is not to say it's necessarily a bad or good thing.

The Super carreirs themselves lost contact with earth. Earth still kept tabs on them. It was only one-way information, so I don't see how it breaks canon.

And a retcon means changing facts in new lore, that contradicts old lore.

How is an "additive" retcon even a thing if it just explains some things in details?

That's the funny thing with "canon". You can say anything is "canon" to justify utter bullshit if you want - doesn't make it any more palatable, reasonable or invulnerable to criticism. It's kinda like the case with the EU in general. Having to know and rely on what is essentially miscellaneous and seemingly privileged/cloistered information to even basically understand what is going on now just makes the whole thing easier to mentally disconnect from the thing in my opinion.

I'm not saying that is invulnerable to criticism.

Starcraft as a science fiction to me has been always incredibly soft. Being able to make Psi Emitters then jump to Psi Disruptors, then jump to Psi Destroyers four years later never even pegged me as a problem. I never even knew anyone didn't like that part.

It just irks me when some people expect some form of realism when dealing with psionics in the first place.

Then again, I take what the authors say about the Terran's abilities as law, and don' get upset if it seems to jump around.

Besides, it not solely my "perceived image" but how the game makes you perceive it as well. In Sc1, the meat of the lore is in the manual and the main campaigns - the portrayal of the Terrans are quite consistent in the distinct feel of them being down-to-earth, backward, ignorant of the wider view of things and rustic.

The guys who use NBC power armor for all their infantry, have psionic ninja assassins, use sensors that can see through reality-bending cloaking technology, and have buildings with thrusters that can fly...are suppose to be down-to-earth?

This contrasts with the blase way in which it portrays Schezar, a single human, somehow being so much smarter, more knowledgeable than the Zerg and the Protoss (he figures out special Protoss technology and understand how to use Khaydarin crystals to usurp control of Zerg brood when the Overmind was still around) and being so powerful. That the campaigns were also hidden away and cheaply developed does not exactly scream "Yes! Everything is true here!" either.

To be fair, the Protoss never even tried experimenting with the Zerg at this point. The Conclave was so prideful, they didn't even see the Zerg on their world as the biggest threat. They kept thinking of Protoss society returning to the Aeon of Strife from the very fact that Tassadar was talking to Dark Templar. And in a way, they were right. There own inability to deal with the DT outside of their fear lead to a civil war between Tassadar's Templars and the Judicator's forces. Tassadar was focused on dealing with the Zerg via the DT too.

Controlling the Zerg via the hive mind was never even thought of until much later, and a group of DT actually managed to do something much much more impressive then Schezar anyways.

As for Schezar doing what he did, the Cerebrate wasn't connected to the Overmind. If this was done via the crystals or not isn't specified. And, depending upon the age of the Cerebrate, its perfectly possible fore Schezar to have gotten lucky. (Brood War incoming) Especially considering the UED could drug the fledgling Overmind and use their own psychics to keep it under their control.

We can play this game forever... There's no proof Duran didn't give this tech to them either. That there are Terran facilities there at all is completely arbitrary.

Both interpretations of the work are perfectly valid based off what we know. So, there's no point in arguing that bit any further.

And the part where it says the nuclear missiles were capable of flying faster-than-light (justifying the Terrans were always super "crazy tech guys") was where? Oh, that's right that clarification came later... as I've been saying all along.

Wrong.

A salvo of one thousand
Apocalypse-class nuclear missiles was fired
at the planet of Korhal from the distant
Confederate capital of Tarsonis. Over
4,000,000 people were annihilated during
the savage attack. In a single instant, the
prosperous colony of Korhal was reduced to
nothing more than a super-heated sphere of
blackened glass and stirring phantoms.

Right there.

Of course, I'm trying to contextualise my opinion by establishing a frame of reference just as you are.

Everyone has their own frame of reference.

My just includes every bit of lore about Starcraft. Even Shadow of the Xel'naga. As much as I hate it, I try to include it in lore discussions when it is relevent.

From what I get, yours only includes the main campaigns/manual. Which is fine of course. Again, agree to disagree.

[Gradius]

Or that the Terrans can build space platforms that cover a planets entire hemisphere?

Man, not this again. Do you also consider the capture of Santa Claus from the same "authorized maps" to be canon?

[Shadow Archon]

Man, not this again. Do you also consider the capture of Santa Claus from the same "authorized maps" to be canon?

No, that was obviously a joke and can be ignored, just like Zerg soccer. It's a gag.

The other's weren't and are canon, as there is a story behind the map your playing on, not you playing out Christmas with Raynor.

[Hawki]

Trying to debate what is and isn't canon is like debating the existance of deities, or the lack of them. Some evidence is available, some isn't, and people are going to interpret that evidence differently. So, to help, going by official statements:

-Games and EU explicitly canon, with the exception of the RPG.

-Maps "generally considered" to be canon, while mods are explicitly not canon. Explicit canon of such maps includes Dark Origin and Enslavers II

-A canon trumps B canon in regards to branching.

Apart from that, your milage my vary. To cite an example I considered the StarCraft RPG to be canon right up to the point when it was declared not to be (that's right Brian, I haven't forgotten about that...bastard). I still do, but because of official statement, I try to avoid bringing it up as 'evidence' or whatnot. I also consider Operation: Claws to be tiered canon of sorts (e.g. I can accept the notion of Raynor and co. saving a planet from zerg, the motives of said zerg being another matter), but due to cause for reasonable doubt, would be reluctant to cite it objectively. As opposed to Sutur V, which I see no cause for reasonable doubt on (space platforms a pre-existing terran technology, and it's clear the platform was constructucted over a large period of time).

And if you think all that's complicated, you've seen nothing (look at the classification systems for Star Wars and Star Trek canon). There's a reason why practically every media section on my homepage has notes pertaining to my stance on canon in regards to the media in question.

Anyway, carry on.

[Turalyon]

The Super carreirs themselves lost contact with earth. Earth still kept tabs on them. It was only one-way information, so I don't see how it breaks canon.

I'm curious whether you see this the same way with the Overmind retcon as it too can be defended exactly in the same vein you are doing so here.

And a retcon means changing facts in new lore, that contradicts old lore.

How is an "additive" retcon even a thing if it just explains some things in details?

To me, a retcon is not merely just a change in established facts but also a change in how the previous continuity is to be perceived when it was heavily implied to be perceived another way initially. An addition retcon tends to do the latter more than the former. With that in mind, a retcon does not necessarily have to mean something negative even though when someone invokes the term "retcon" it usually does.

Being able to make Psi Emitters then jump to Psi Disruptors, then jump to Psi Destroyers four years later never even pegged me as a problem. I never even knew anyone didn't like that part.

The jump in logic is between the Psi Emitter and Psi Disruptor. Forget that they are called "Psi" for a moment and focus instead on how they work at a fundamental level. The emitter, as originally described, is a device that broadcasts and magnifies Ghosts brainwave patterns whilst the disruptor directly attacks the unique psionic link between higher order Zerg organisms that controls the numerous lesser Zerg. The two tech are in no way linked - the emitter only works because it capitalises on observed Zerg behaviour at the time (in truth, the attraction to Ghosts was due to the Overmind's will of wanting to find psionic potential to integrate into the Swarm) and does nothing to the Zerg in actuality whilst the disruptor is many levels above and depends on knowing intimately how the Zerg psionic hierarchy works and how to reach out and affect it.

It just irks me when some people expect some form of realism when dealing with psionics in the first place.

There is often two types of realism when dealing with fictional works. The first is whether it is applicable to the non-fictional worlds and the second is the applicability to the fictional worlds as it has been defined by it's own set of rules. Granted the second is very nebulous and much more prone to decay due to the changing whims of writers, but the original conception of psionics in Starcraft (the faux realism/rules of that fictional world are being established here) was that the Terrans were only in their infancy with its use and that there are different types of "psionics" at work that are not directly interchangeable. If they were, why else would the Overmind's actively pursue the psionic potential of the Terrans? Oh that's right, it was retconned into it not really wanting psionic potential at all but just to kill all Protoss in general in WoL.

don' get upset if it seems to jump around.

Meh, it's hard for me to get too upset anymore about the changes in Starcraft since they've been happening since BW. Sc2 has only just vindicated my disconnect.

The guys who use NBC power armor for all their infantry, have psionic ninja assassins, use sensors that can see through reality-bending cloaking technology, and have buildings with thrusters that can fly...are suppose to be down-to-earth?

As down-to-earth as one can get in a science-fiction/fantasy themed world. All these innovations serve practical purposes to the general Terran ideology of expansion, consumption, in-fighting etc. and do not leap out as just being fanciful for the sake of being fanciful.

To be fair, the Protoss never even tried experimenting with the Zerg at this point.

Not as far as we know so far. This can be easily rectified through additive retcon.

Wrong.

Still not seeing the direct evidence that points to them being faster-than-light in that passage. Show anyone else that same passage and they'd defy you to say that this is evidence that the missiles are flying FTL. I'd wager that most would go so far as to say that they are is merely assumption... oh dear, wasn't I just accused of such a thing earlier?

No, that was obviously a joke and can be ignored, just like Zerg soccer. It's a gag.

The other's weren't and are canon, as there is a story behind the map your playing on, not you playing out Christmas with Raynor.

Strange how you can be so easily dismissive, quickly identify this as a joke and deem it not to be trusted when the reasoning you use is no different from mine (ie: that it seems incongruous with previous stuff). It's a slippery slope from hereon in...