zerus

[Hawki]

Is it ever mentioned how far away zerus is from aiur or the K-sector or whatever?

I've seen the figure of 5000 light years used on these forums, but the only reference I can find is in the original manual, which lists the distance just as "thousands."

So yeah, 2000 years for zerus to go from lifeless to vegetation? It may be only slightly more reasonable if the vegetation is 'minor' - ie. moss/lichen etc. Whatever the first vegetation on earth was, it hadn't evolved yet (zerus vegetation certainly shouldn't have time to evolve). I think flowers are the youngest vegetation - meaning lots of evolution is needed before flowers start sprouting.

Honestly, at this point, I can only conclude it's a retcon or, if you want to split hairs, call the original manual text hyperbole (Zerus heavily damaged but not to the point of really being lifeless). Travel times I can wriggle around, and since HotS extends well into 2505, one can conjecture that most of that time was spent getting to Zerus and back. Vegetation though...um, the spawning pool did it?

[Turalyon]

Honestly, at this point, I can only conclude it's a retcon or, if you want to split hairs, call the original manual text hyperbole (Zerus heavily damaged but not to the point of really being lifeless). Travel times I can wriggle around, and since HotS extends well into 2505, one can conjecture that most of that time was spent getting to Zerus and back. Vegetation though...um, the spawning pool did it?

The Primal Zerg did it. We didn't know they were there before and now that we do, that's explanation enough for Zerus's change (not to mention that if 4 years is enough for things to improve vastly in the K sector, consider what would could happen in 2000 years with an ancient and highly intelligent race that harness the almighty power of DNA/essence!). It's like the Overmind being a slave "retcon", we didn't know there was a DV/Amon back then and now that we do, that's explanation enough apparently.

[solidsamurai]

I've seen the figure of 5000 light years used on these forums, but the only reference I can find is in the original manual, which lists the distance just as "thousands."

So if it took the ATLAS 70 years to travel 60,000 light years, then how long did it take the overmind to reach the k-sector? Actually, it's possible they drifted around for 10,000 years (or however long since the xel'naga went extinct), since they couldn't have known where to go at first.

The Primal Zerg did it. We didn't know they were there before and now that we do, that's explanation enough for Zerus's change (not to mention that if 4 years is enough for things to improve vastly in the K sector, consider what would could happen in 2000 years with an ancient and highly intelligent race that harness the almighty power of DNA/essence!). It's like the Overmind being a slave "retcon", we didn't know there was a DV/Amon back then and now that we do, that's explanation enough apparently.

Lolol, I'm glad my boycott of this game was worth while. If I want story, I can easily watch jessecox LP it and savor the cheese.

[FanaticTemplar]

So yeah, 2000 years for zerus to go from lifeless to vegetation?

Without a clear idea of the time difference between the Xel'Naga arriving on Zerus and Kerrigan's arrival on Zerus,

Why must you ruin things for me? Can't you see how much I long for the cocoon of canonically disapproved history of the StarCraft setting? If I'd wanted to know how long the history of the Zerg was in new reckoning I would have looked it up on the wiki. I was deliberately trying to remain ignorant of the subject since a good background should include mystery and Blizzard is doing their best to answer every question they could ever have possibly asked.

Merciful Adun. The entire history of the Zerg species is only two thousand years?

[Hawki]

So if it took the ATLAS 70 years to travel 60,000 light years,

28 years.

then how long did it take the overmind to reach the k-sector?

At least centuries.

since they couldn't have known where to go at first.

They had an idea of the general direction.

Why must you ruin things for me? Can't you see how much I long for the cocoon of canonically disapproved history of the StarCraft setting? If I'd wanted to know how long the history of the Zerg was in new reckoning I would have looked it up on the wiki.

I don't know why you're quoting yourself, but I don't know where the 2000 figure came from. We know that's the minimum age of the Overmind and Zurvan, that's all. And even if it had been in the game, what then? Cover your ears?

I was deliberately trying to remain ignorant of the subject

...

...

Rosebud is the sled.

Soylent green is people.

It was Earth all along.

Bruce Willis is dead.

a good background should include mystery and Blizzard is doing their best to answer every question they could ever have possibly asked.

Welcome to worldbuilding.

Merciful Adun. The entire history of the Zerg species is only two thousand years?

No, it isn't. It's much longer. I can give you some absolute dates for protoss history if you want though.

[Turalyon]

Actually, it's possible they drifted around for 10,000 years (or however long since the xel'naga went extinct), since they couldn't have known where to go at first.

This is an interesting bit of trivia. One would think the Overmind knew the general direction of where the Protoss were especially considering that Amon would've had knowledge of this and likely would've told them where to go. So why did the Zerg take so long to find the Protoss? Not much of a directive (or a good plan on the part of Amon) if it's so lax in allowing the Overmind to make a detour around the whole universe under the pretense of "Oh, but I'm still looking for the Protoss and gathering strength and such".

Maybe when the Zerg only found the Protoss after they absorbed the DNA to produce Leviathans. Afterall, they can warp to Zerus is no time it seems.

Lolol, I'm glad my boycott of this game was worth while. If I want story, I can easily watch jessecox LP it and savor the cheese.

As long as you accept that Sc2 works on overt fridge logic and go into it with a sense of cynicisim, you too can savour the cheese!

Why must you ruin things for me? Can't you see how much I long for the cocoon of canonically disapproved history of the StarCraft setting? If I'd wanted to know how long the history of the Zerg was in new reckoning I would have looked it up on the wiki. I was deliberately trying to remain ignorant of the subject since a good background should include mystery and Blizzard is doing their best to answer every question they could ever have possibly asked.

Merciful Adun. The entire history of the Zerg species is only two thousand years?

Good grief, a Protoss lover going off the rails about all these Zerg revelations. Think about how it would affect the actual Zerg lovers (me)!

[Hawki]

Good grief, a Protoss lover going off the rails about all these Zerg revelations.

Yes, because knowledge = bad. It's protoss lover logic I guess.

Maybe it's a species thing. We terran lovers prefer to seek out every scrap of info we can get.

[solidsamurai]

Maybe it's a species thing. We terran lovers prefer to seek out every scrap of info we can get.

I agree. Being human does that to you.

[FanaticTemplar]

And even if it had been in the game, what then? Cover your ears?

Of course. What else can you do in the face of blatant contradiction? Was Zeratul 634 years old at the time of Brood War, or had he served Raszagal for many millennia? You've got to choose which is true and "cover your ears" to the other. It's all fiction anyway, so there's no objective truth. Everything you know today could be made to be entirely wrong tomorrow at Blizzard's whim. This is what comes of eschewing consistency in your setting. We know Blizzard will change the canon if they ever feel like it, so why would you expect me to adhere to it, especially when it detracts from the breadth of the universe and/or is stupid?

Welcome to worldbuilding.

This is not worldbuilding. Well, its is, of course, but in the same way that The Eye of Argon counts as storytelling. Worldbuilding is about enriching a coherent setting and backstory. This impoverishes both, and detracts from the setting's coherency. Worldbuilding should add scope and depth to a setting. It should suggest a thousand other stories. This is the opposite - it's closing the door on so many possibilities just to provide us with minutia. It is a narrative dead-end.

A setting is as vast as it needs to be to accommodate all possible answers to the questions it raises. When you provide answers, you are reducing the scope of the setting, because now the full totality of possibilities it needs to accommodate is one - the one you have decreed to be correct. This is how you make a setting smaller by adding to its backstory. Resolution should be for the present.

[Hawki]

Of course. What else can you do in the face of blatant contradiction?

Consider both, and make an informed judgement.

Was Zeratul 634 years old at the time of Brood War, or had he served Raszagal for many millennia?

The former. The latter's longer than Raszagal's been alive, and Zeratul's YOB has been repeatedly given as 1865. There's no ambiguity there.

You've got to choose which is true and "cover your ears" to the other.

No, you choose one, and keep the other in mind if it becomes relevant. It's really a case by case basis.

We know Blizzard will change the canon if they ever feel like it, so why would you expect me to adhere to it, especially when it detracts from the breadth of the universe and/or is stupid?

Facts are still facts at the end of the day. You can dislike them all you want, and in some cases, you can ignore them. Fanfiction for instance, with AU/AR stories (that I refuse to write for the former but am willing to do so for the latter may tell you a lot). In a forum however, there's less of a mandate. If my argument is x, and your counter argument is "I don't accept your supporting material," then there's no conversation to be had. The only time when it becomes iffy is if there's debate as to whether it's a retcon or inconsistancy.

A equivalent of a canon fact I dislike is that the kalathi were revealed to be knocked back to the stone age in the Kalath Intercession. I don't like the fact, as I feel it closes the door on them ever being brought into the setting in a meaningful way. But I still have to accept it. In the StarCraft III thread I created, I didn't argue that the kalathi should be a fourth race, saying "let's ignore the stone age bit but accepting everything else." And there's a reason I no longer stir up the old timeline debate. It's been done. It's over.

Ideally a setting should minimize retcons/inconsistancies, but they'll still happen. Ignoring problems doesn't solve them. I have to bear them in StarCraft like every other setting that has them over time.

Worldbuilding is about enriching a coherent setting and backstory. This impoverishes both, and detracts from the setting's coherency.

Looking back, I'm not sure what "it" is. Is it the 2000 years figure, which is wrong? Is it the primal zerg, which I could argue does enrich the setting and backstory. Or the travel time to Zerus, which I feel increases inconsistancy?

Worldbuilding should add scope and depth to a setting. It should suggest a thousand other stories.

Yes to the first, no to the second. Worldbuilding can provide the means to make stories, but should not arbitrarily "suggest them." If stories are suggested post ending, then it takes away from the sense of closure.

A setting is as vast as it needs to be to accommodate all possible answers to the questions it raises. When you provide answers, you are reducing the scope of the setting,

And when you don't provide answers you're denying a sense of narrative closure, and other types as well depending on the situation (e.g. emotional). For example, the series has been teasing at bona fide species other than the "big three" for fifteen years, and we've never actually seen one. We've never seen a tagal or kalathi, the elder races might as well not exist, the tribal aliens have probably been forgotten about, and the chances of the space vampire concept being revived into something fitting of the setting are between slim and nil. But no, it's "good worldbuilding" to never actually answer questions, just raise more and more. Least with SC2 we're getting answers to the hybrids and xel'naga. Are you saying it would be better if we never actually learned anything, that the threads were still left dangling?

This is how you make a setting smaller by adding to its backstory.

Define "smaller." Worldbuilding by definition makes a setting larger, as in, more content, the 'mass' increases, etc. If you're arguing "smaller" as in actual size though, then yes - there's a big jump to Zerus and Earth, but it still conforms to the principle of making a galaxy larger over time. Star Trek ended with every quadrant known about in some form or another, as opposed to the 1/2 we started out with. It isn't good worldbuilding to not expand something over time, especially when you're steadily providing the means for it (better warp drives and all that).

Resolution should be for the present.

Um, as opposed to the past? The future? Last I checked, we could only carry out actions in the present. Unless you're Q. He trolls the laws of physics like that.