HOTS Skytoss in PvZ a problem?

[protoswarrior]

I've really enjoyed experimenting with SKytoss vs. Zerg in HotS!
I really enjoy WhiteRa's: 2 Zealot, MS core quick 3rd into Carrier strat.

The trick I find with it is to just hug your 3rd until Zerg tries to attack and slowly incorporate those HTs.
Zerg players don't seem to understand how to counter it properly, so it's been a lot of fun

Zerg players have always been the worst complainers. Nothing new here :P

Anyways, here's a video of me doing a crappier version of WhiteRa's strat:
Attachment 2262

Love the rage at the end :P

As for countering it:
- Don't just run into the third with Hydras expecting to end the game
- Have your Hydra's wait just outside the 3rd and force the engagement and focus on the Interceptors. No interceptors, No defence
- Infestors
- delay third as long as possible

Zergs are just lazy and want to win with 1 or 2 unit army compositions :/. Adapt! that's what you do!

Hey Carsickness, that is pretty SICK (no pun intended lol)!

I completely agree. Zergs need to use more of their mobility and KNOW when to use more Swarm Hosts or Vipers or Infestors, or a combination of the 3 in varying proportions, WHILE doing drops and dividing the Protoss' attention so much that his split army will not be able to attack you. On top of that, Rekatan brings up some REALLY good solutions to fighting things like Carriers and Tempests.

Catz also shows just how MOBILE Zerg can be while being cost-effective against a Protoss who uses a mobile style as well.

I really think that Zergs just aren't adapting well to HOTS, and are not trying hard enough to find solutions. All we can do is offer you what weaknesses exist with our styles of strategy, but the actual theorycrafting of strategy from Zerg has to come from the players. I am SOOO glad Rekatan and Catz are experimenting so much, and I see that some Zerg players on the bnet forums ARE starting to adopt those strats. That's a start.


PS:

In other news, I beat a Diamond Zerg (!!!) who went Swarm-Host/Queen all-in on 2 bases. I was opening 2 stargate after FFE as usual, but the moment I saw his late 3rd go down, I immediately planted a couple of proxy pylons, double robo'ed while continuing VR production en masse with 1 Oracle and My MS Core. I had 9 VRs and I tried to expand to my 3rd, but lost the Nexus, but retook it elsewhere while massing Col/VR from 2 robos and 2 stargates with 8 gates and 1 Oracle + MS Core Time Warp.

It was a little back and forth but I eventually killed him with 5 colossus/9 VRs/8-9 stalkers WHILE I harassed his nat and main with zealots, forcing him to make units instead of drones, and when I eventually pushed back, his hydralisk transition was so late... We were basically on equal economy thanks to my harass and the fact that I kept sniping swarm hosts and queens and corruptors here and there.

Fun game ^_^

[protoswarrior]

Lol Carsickness! Great game! Sooo greedy haha! That zerg was so dumb, and his QQ was funny as hell in the end haha!

Smaller army, not mining gas from 2 bases, no Infestor, no swarm hosts, no drops, u took a FREE 4th, and had waay more income and you were microing while he wasn't really. I loved the 40 apm idiocy at the end lol! He actually was slower than you.
Overall HILARIOUS game, dude!

[protoswarrior]

The_Blade, here is another lesson in Protoss economy management for you, better shown by dApollo, than me trying to explain to someone who has no knowledge of gas management as Protoss, how to manage gas and what is possible and what is not. I do not mean that offensively - I mean it truthfully; it is really hard to explain to you why Protoss gas cannot be spent in the way you imagine.

Here is this educational video on how Protoss spends his initial gas, and how the flow of gas goes from there. Notice how you can replace certain tech and sentries with stargate units and 1 additional Stargate all the same:

[Carsickness]

Cool Videos Protoswarrior. All of them.
Looking at your replay (and other PvZ replays) it really seems to be that countering swarmhosts is more and more about multiple attack paths, and not being backed up into your base.
I remember one replay in particular (just not who casted it) in which Toss went blink Stalkers only to counter them and won. Craziness!

Your gas video was neat too. I've got a few work friends that have been struggling to get out of silver and gold, so this will help their game a lot im sure, thanks

[protoswarrior]

Thanks Carsickness ^_^

I have been playing a little more HOTS PvZ, and I am finding that Swarm hosts are the key to Zerg gaining control to fight Skytoss. And to fight that, I am finding that as I take my 3rd base and get psi-storm, I feel I HAVE to get a Robo and get 2 warp-prisms and start pushing out with my main VR/HT/Archon/Zealot army to engage Zerg and push him back WHILE hitting 2 Zerg expos with Zealot drops/warp-ins.

This ensures that ANY cost-effectiveness from Swarm hosts is counter-balanced by the damage done by the drops. It makes the game more even.

[Carsickness]

Here we go. WhiteRa just released a replay of him doing both, the fast 3rd into carriers and what you where describing with the warp prisms.

Zerg did a great job holding off the Carrier push, and should be a model to all Zerg players up against a similar strategy.

[protoswarrior]

Here we go. WhiteRa just released a replay of him doing both, the fast 3rd into carriers and what you where describing with the warp prisms.

Zerg did a great job holding off the Carrier push, and should be a model to all Zerg players up against a similar strategy.

Hahaha Nice!

Yeah I saw that game on Whitera's channel Pretty epic ^_^ But, yes, the way the Zerg fought is exactly how you need to do it, and you can take it further by using Nydus/Ultra/ling to pressure Protoss' production, while pushing the front with Swarm hosts/Hydra. Rekatan was using Overlord drops, but that late into the game, I think using 1-2 nydus Worms is actually a lot more effective. It costs 100 gas per Nydus, but has huge benefits, and because a Carrier/Templar army like WhiteRa's is so slow, it will never respond in time.

By the way, I might start uploading some replays of me on Youtube or Twitch. I found this awesome stream software that's 1000x better than xplsit performance-wise, and seems to have similar functionality to it. I'll post more of that when I get some good games

Also, yesterday, a Platinum Terran told me I play better than most Plats Like my macro was way better - so that is encouraging; I might get into Diamond yet!

PS:

My Twitch is:

http://www.twitch.tv/xecutoradun/

And YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/xecgoon/


I'll be streaming and uploading stuffs more often

[Carsickness]

I think using 1-2 nydus Worms is actually a lot more effective. It costs 100 gas per Nydus, but has huge benefits

I agree. I really think nydus' are being under utilized. At the very least, the sound alone pulls my attention away from my army and causes me to panic. A late game, mass Nydus, style attack would tear through Toss (at least my Toss).

And YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/xecgoon/


I'll be streaming and uploading stuffs more often

Cool. Subscribed - looking forward to your videos. We should play/ train together. What's your b.net name thingy?

Also, yesterday, a Platinum Terran told me I play better than most Plats Like my macro was way better - so that is encouraging; I might get into Diamond yet!

Sweet! keep at it
I recently had a game against a diamond where he said i shouldn't be in diamond (should be in masters). So that also made me feel better .
I've struggled so hard to get out of diamond. 3-4 seasons now i've hit #1 in my division - Just can't cross that threshold.

-OFF TOPIC-
Anyways, here's the replay of buddy saying i played really well if you're interested:
TvP fast VR2.SC2Replay

BTW - Fast Voidrays vs. Terran kicks ass haven't lost yet

[protoswarrior]

Hey thanks Carsckness! ♥ Thanks for the sub ^_^

And my bnet ID is

Xecutor.429

I'll check out that replay as well soon And That's nice to hear - training with you when you are at Masters MMR is really gonna help me improve and likely hit diamond sooner

When are you usually on?

[Carsickness]

The time this post is written is the time i'm usually on (don't feel like fiddling with time zones ). 2-3 times a week - during the week.