Gradius's HoTS Story Review

[Aldrius]

I think a crucial part of your reply has been lost :P.

I said what I was gonna say at another point. She wanted revenge. That was a key element of her plan. But that' not all she wanted, she also wanted security and power. She got that too.

Quite so. Because she's petty and cruel and completely unlike her human self. You're the one who claimed she only did this because "he was an enemy who stood in her way".

I said that about Fenix, and actually that's why she killed Duke. (Though she thoroughly enjoyed killing him of course, but that was a bonus.) Her targets were Mengsk, Zeratul and the Overmind/Cerebrates more than anyone. Betraying Fenix and Raynor was a necessity of wanting to stab Mengsk in the back. Well, and I assume she figured they'd stand in her way of wanting to rule the sector. So disposing of them then was important. But killing Fenix wasn't about revenge.

This in Brood War, which retconned the Zerg into being multiple magnitudes of power over every other race.

No it didn't? The Zerg were beating the crap out of the Protoss through out the entire campaign. The epilogue of SC1 even says that Aiur was completely destroyed in the conflict.

This is the game where a handful of insignificant, purposeless and essentially unlead Zerg were a threat to the entire Protoss species that could only be averted through a plot device called the Xel'Naga Temple.

Yes? Again, the Protoss homeworld was annihilated during the first game, and the civil war did a lot of damage too. And the Zerg were dangerous even when they weren't being lead. And then there's the forces that were left behind with Fenix, and well, I doubt they pulled EVERYONE through a single warp gate on Shakuras. (Ugh, I was just reminded of that stupid retcon that Raynor and Fenix went to Shakuras in-between the Protoss and Terran Brood War campaigns.)

The fact that Kerrigan, controlling essentially all the Zerg could do all this and more is no more evidence of competence than the fact that a child with a magnifying glass can kill an ant. Kerrigan in Brood War relies on others to do things for her, but she never manipulates them, she merely relies on them being too moral or too stupid not to do whatever she wants.

That's intelligent. She takes advantage of Mengsk's desire for power, Raynor's desire to fight tyranny, Zeratul's desire to fight the Renegade Zerg. People act like this is just serendipity on her part. It's not. They don't TRUST her, but they'd rather see her gain power than the UED gain power. Is that dumb? Maybe. But it's not out of character or anything.

Despite her massive advantages, she continually jeopardises her own plans through her inability to affect even the barest subtlety, first by attracting the attention of Aldaris for no discernible purpose, then by confessing to her evil in the middle of two Protoss armies after murdering one of their leaders and relying for her survival entirely on Zeratul making the ludicrously stupid decision to punish her by exiling her from Shakuras.

You're criticizing it for a game mechanic for one thing. And basically all that happened was, Kerrigan killed Aldaris because he was a traitor, Zeratul disapproved and told her to get lost for putting her nose into their business. Then Kerrigan says she doesn't care because they're going to do what she wants them to anyway. It's the least offensive of her betrayals in the game.

She betrays her 'allies' - who have sided with her because they have suddenly forgotten that the Zerg threaten to devour all sentience, all life - based on the notion that 'they are too dangerous to be left alive' but then spares the half of them who are main characters. Including the leader of the Terran faction.

Because she'd destroyed their armies. They were no longer a threat. As for Mengsk and such siding with her, it's because she's Kerrigan, she's terran. What the "Zerg" want doesn't really matter. I mean it might be dumb for them to trust Kerrigan because she's obviously not on the level. But the "Zerg's goals" are not a legitimate reason for Mengsk and such to be considered foolish.

After she takes control of Raszagal through unknown powers that are never mentioned again, she uses her to get Zeratul to kill the Overmind... and then when asked to fulfill her half of the bargain and let her puppet return to a position of leadership among the Protoss, she decides 'nah, I don't wanna' which forces a fight with Zeratul. After which she allows Zeratul to leave.

The only smart characters to show up in Brood War do so in the Terran campaign. The best the other two have to offer is Aldaris.

How... is that dumb on anyone's part? First off, mental domination is established as a psychic power many characters have in the StarCraft Universe. Or she could have just used a precursor to the neural parasite. Then Kerrigan... lets him live. I'm really not getting what you're faulting here. Zeratul kills the Overmind because the Overmind is a threat to his people anyway and his Matriarch asked him to do it. She didn't need Raszagal to go back to being leader of the Protoss. She'd fulfilled her purpose. I guess it wasn't the most far-sighted decision on her part, but that doesn't make her stupid. Or him...

And Aldaris was just a stubborn ass. His 'intelligent decisions' are just based on him being a stubborn ass.

[FanaticTemplar]

I said what I was gonna say at another point. She wanted revenge. That was a key element of her plan. But that' not all she wanted, she also wanted security and power. She got that too.

Against Zeratul? Revenge for what?

No it didn't? The Zerg were beating the crap out of the Protoss through out the entire campaign. The epilogue of SC1 even says that Aiur was completely destroyed in the conflict.

It also says the Swarm was broken. The Protoss won the battle for Aiur before Brood War.

For reference:

As the chaotic, swirling energies subsided, a heavy silence settled over the battlefields of Aiur. Due to Tassadar's noble sacrifice, the Overmind was now dead and the Zerg Swarms were scattered and broken. But as the heroes surveyed their once glorious homeland, they realized that their victory had cost them all but their lives. Aiur was left nothing more than a smouldering ruin. Those few Protoss who survived the final battle could only wonder what the future would hold for their race.

That's intelligent. She takes advantage of Mengsk's desire for power, Raynor's desire to fight tyranny, Zeratul's desire to fight the Renegade Zerg. People act like this is just serendipity on her part. It's not. They don't TRUST her, but they'd rather see her gain power than the UED gain power. Is that dumb? Maybe. But it's not out of character or anything.

Mengsk certainly, but Raynor and Fenix? They've seen first hand what the Zerg can and will do, what does the UED have to compare? Kerrigan just asserts that they're worse than the Zerg - something evidently false due to the fact that the UED's entire plan is to use the Zerg to do what the Zerg would do anyway except for sparing humanity - and because the plot requires it, everyone just accepts that. As for Zeratul, she didn't take advantage of anything. She could have never showed up in The Stand and things would have happened exactly the same, except that she wouldn't have run the risk of failure due to Aldaris uncovering her schemes.

You're criticizing it for a game mechanic for one thing. And basically all that happened was, Kerrigan killed Aldaris because he was a traitor, Zeratul disapproved and told her to get lost for putting her nose into their business. Then Kerrigan says she doesn't care because they're going to do what she wants them to anyway. It's the least offensive of her betrayals in the game.

There's no game mechanic there - Aldaris refused to surrender, the conversation had to take place on the battlefield. Also, about Kerrigan:

You are the enemy of all who live, Kerrigan. - from Zeratul, when they first meet her on Shakuras.
We will do what you ask, Matriarch. But you cannot expect us to forgive Kerrigan's crimes against our race! - from Artanis, in the subsequent briefing.

The only thing keeping her alive was the pretense that she was no longer under the influence of the Zerg. The moment she drops that pretense, she deserves to be fully judged for her crimes.

But anyway, you're missing the point, which is:
1- she only needed to kill Aldaris because she endangered her own plans by showing up. The Protoss were already going to do everything she wanted before she ever showed up, all she accomplished was put her plans at risk.
2- when placed in such a position, what kind of idiot taunts the people who have you at their mercy and have more than ample reason to execute you already?

Because she'd destroyed their armies. They were no longer a threat. As for Mengsk and such siding with her, it's because she's Kerrigan, she's terran. What the "Zerg" want doesn't really matter. I mean it might be dumb for them to trust Kerrigan because she's obviously not on the level. But the "Zerg's goals" are not a legitimate reason for Mengsk and such to be considered foolish.

They were such a non-threat that the next time Mengsk shows up, in Omega, she was legitimately afraid. And the time after that, in Wings of Liberty, they succeed in breaking her control over the Swarm and locking her in a cage. If she believed they were no longer a threat then that makes her lack of judgment undeniable fact.

How... is that dumb on anyone's part? First off, mental domination is established as a psychic power many characters have in the StarCraft Universe. Or she could have just used a precursor to the neural parasite. Then Kerrigan... lets him live. I'm really not getting what you're faulting here. Zeratul kills the Overmind because the Overmind is a threat to his people anyway and his Matriarch asked him to do it. She didn't need Raszagal to go back to being leader of the Protoss. She'd fulfilled her purpose. I guess it wasn't the most far-sighted decision on her part, but that doesn't make her stupid. Or him...

Letting Raszagal go had no drawbacks and offered multiple opportunities. Not allowing her to go provided no benefits but offered drawbacks. You ask me how making a decision that is objectively worse can be considered dumb? Your only justification for this dumb decision is that at this point there was no value in making smart decisions? Make no mistake, Kerrigan chose to resolve the situation this way. And the reason is that it gave her the opportunity to gloat. This is a consistent continuation of her Zerg nature where she would previously boast about her own power and how 'her stare alone would reduce you to ashes'. Only now she needs to boast about how clever she is. She committed suicide on Shakuras because she wanted to gloat to the Protoss about how she'd deceived them. She let Mengsk and Raynor live because she needed to gloat about how she'd killed their friends or ambitions. And she refused to send Raszagal back with Zeratul because she needed to gloat about how Raszagal was her puppet all along. She has childish insecurities and a desperate need for affirmation.

As for how Kerrigan controlled Raszagal... there are plenty of things it could be, but it's still never mentioned and never used again. Such an ability could've come in quite useful against DuGalle. Or Mengsk. Or everybody, really.

And Aldaris was just a stubborn ass. His 'intelligent decisions' are just based on him being a stubborn ass.

How so? He was quite respectful of the Matriarch at all times until he uncovered Kerrigan's control. If anything Brood War portrays him as excessively apologetic for his past mistakes.

[Aldrius]

Against Zeratul? Revenge for what?

Defying her on Char mostly. I don't know if that's really justified on her part, but that's what it was for. Or at least that's the impression I got. Frankly I think she just didn't like Zeratul all that much.

It also says the Swarm was broken. The Protoss won the battle for Aiur before Brood War.

Eh, it's debatable. The planet was ruined, the swarm was broken. What it doesn't say is that the Swarm was utterly defeated. And it's not like they NEEDED the Xel'Naga temple I don't think. I think the main idea was the Temple expedited things. It made it a lot easier to wipe out the swarm quickly.

Mengsk certainly, but Raynor and Fenix? They've seen first hand what the Zerg can and will do, what does the UED have to compare? Kerrigan just asserts that they're worse than the Zerg - something evidently false due to the fact that the UED's entire plan is to use the Zerg to do what the Zerg would do anyway except for sparing humanity - and because the plot requires it, everyone just accepts that. As for Zeratul, she didn't take advantage of anything. She could have never showed up in The Stand and things would have happened exactly the same, except that she wouldn't have run the risk of failure due to Aldaris uncovering her schemes.

Kerrigan is in control of the swarm. Mengsk, Raynor, Fenix, they're all operating under the assumption that Kerrigan is not going to wipe out humanity. Because while they think she's crazy, they don't think she's THAT crazy. And again, would rather see her in power than the UED. They figure they can beat her, or that she's less of a threat.

For Zeratul. She helped them gather both crystals. They... might have failed without her? I guess? Well she ensured they succeeded anyway.

The only thing keeping her alive was the pretense that she was no longer under the influence of the Zerg. The moment she drops that pretense, she deserves to be fully judged for her crimes.

That pretense didn't go anywhere. Zeratul just told her to get lost because he didn't agree with her methods. He wanted to see a bloodless end to the conflict with Aldaris and she killed him. She just did something he didn't want, she didn't stab him in the back. She just did something he didn't exactly approve of. He didn't think she was a huge threat to him at that point. There's a big difference between mindless murderess and ruthless bitch.

2- when placed in such a position, what kind of idiot taunts the people who have you at their mercy and have more than ample reason to execute you already?

How is she at their mercy? She has a brood at her command at least, and no reason to stay. She would have just left anyway. Negligible difference.

They were such a non-threat that the next time Mengsk shows up, in Omega, she was legitimately afraid. And the time after that, in Wings of Liberty, they succeed in breaking her control over the Swarm and locking her in a cage. If she believed they were no longer a threat then that makes her lack of judgment undeniable fact.

No, it just means she was mistaken (and not grossly mistaken) and Mengsk wasn't alone, he had the Protoss and UED along with him. And she beat them anyway. I'm not talking about Wings of Liberty, though. And in that instance, it was a surgical strike on Char (while most of the Swarm was off invading) to use the Artifact on Kerrigan.

In that instance the stupidest thing she did was to stay in range of it, if she just left, her broods would have eventually overwhelmed them.

Letting Raszagal go had no drawbacks and offered multiple opportunities. Not allowing her to go provided no benefits but offered drawbacks. You ask me how making a decision that is objectively worse can be considered dumb? Your only justification for this dumb decision is that at this point there was no value in making smart decisions?

No, my point is Raszagal had served her purpose. Kerrigan had already won. She didn't need Raszagal anymore because the Dark Templar had done what she wanted and she now had control over the Swarm.

Make no mistake, Kerrigan chose to resolve the situation this way. And the reason is that it gave her the opportunity to gloat. This is a consistent continuation of her Zerg nature where she would previously boast about her own power and how 'her stare alone would reduce you to ashes'. Only now she needs to boast about how clever she is.

She killed Aldaris because he was mucking things up (they were wasting time fighting him instead of using the Temple to destroy the Renegade Zerg) and had information that endangered her plans. (which he was about to reveal)

She committed suicide on Shakuras because she wanted to gloat to the Protoss about how she'd deceived them.

Well, first off she was hardly commiting suicide. It didn't even make her plans more difficult in the long run. She hadn't deceived them (well she had but she wasn't telling them that yet). She was gloating that they were going to do what she wanted anyway.

It's basically a case of:

Zeratul: Get lost. This was none of your business.
Kerrigan: Fine, but you're going to do what I want you to do anyway, so whatever doesn't matter.

She wasn't saying "Well okay, but I'm going to come back and trick you into helping me destroy the Overmind so that I can take over the Swarm and then wipe out the entire galaxy and rule it as it's queen."

She let Mengsk and Raynor live because she needed to gloat about how she'd killed their friends or ambitions. And she refused to send Raszagal back with Zeratul because she needed to gloat about how Raszagal was her puppet all along. She has childish insecurities and a desperate need for affirmation.

I dunno why she let Raynor live. It's never actually brought up. I think she just didn't want to kill him out of lingering affection personally. (Or he just slipped away) But she didn't intentionally not kill him, that's never said. Mengsk she totally let live because she wanted to gloat, yeah. She wanted revenge. I don't know what your point is. Like, seriously, it's like people will only accept that Kerrigan is intelligent if she was a totally unfeeling machine who did everything purely logically and wanted nothing but power. That's not who she is. But again, that doesn't make her one-dimensional and it doesn't make her unintelligent. She lets Zeratul live because she wants him to suffer. She lets Mengsk live because she wants him to suffer. That doesn't make her stupid.

As for how Kerrigan controlled Raszagal... there are plenty of things it could be, but it's still never mentioned and never used again. Such an ability could've come in quite useful against DuGalle. Or Mengsk. Or everybody, really.

I guess? What's your point? She just hasn't used it since. She hasn't needed to. I imagine Kerrigan went to an undefended Shakuras prior to the Protoss and Renegade Zerg's arrival there and took control of Raszagal. (And the Overmind probably told her about it because he'd touched minds with Zeratul) She didn't have to use it on Mengsk (he did what she wanted him to anyway) and she probably couldn't get close enough to Dugalle to do it.

How so? He was quite respectful of the Matriarch at all times until he uncovered Kerrigan's control. If anything Brood War portrays him as excessively apologetic for his past mistakes.

Because he didn't want to believe Kerrigan had changed. That's why he did what he did.

[FanaticTemplar]

Defying her on Char mostly. I don't know if that's really justified on her part, but that's what it was for. Or at least that's the impression I got. Frankly I think she just didn't like Zeratul all that much.

Do you have any basis for this? Because it sounds like you're letting your desired conclusions shape your perception of the facts. You have not provided with any consistent methodology for Kerrigan that assumes her to be even marginally competent.

Eh, it's debatable. The planet was ruined, the swarm was broken. What it doesn't say is that the Swarm was utterly defeated.

Nor does it say that the Protoss were utterly defeated. Or defeated at all. In fact, what it does say is that the fighting had ended (the battlefields were silent), the Swarms were broken, and the Protoss had achieved (a costly) victory.

Kerrigan is in control of the swarm. Mengsk, Raynor, Fenix, they're all operating under the assumption that Kerrigan is not going to wipe out humanity. Because while they think she's crazy, they don't think she's THAT crazy.

Any basis for this, or even why they would be inclined to believe such a thing?

And again, would rather see her in power than the UED. They figure they can beat her, or that she's less of a threat.

And why would they think this? Raynor and Fenix were found on Aiur, just after the great war with the Zerg. What have they seen of the UED? That they were hunting Arcturus Mengsk? That they were forced to retreat when Kerrigan's Zerg attacked them?

For Zeratul. She helped them gather both crystals. They... might have failed without her? I guess? Well she ensured they succeeded anyway.

And you consider this "using" Zeratul? You consider this doing something useful, never mind 'hyper-competency'? Especially considering that she put her entire control over Raszagal in jeopardy by doing so?

That pretense didn't go anywhere. Zeratul just told her to get lost because he didn't agree with her methods. He wanted to see a bloodless end to the conflict with Aldaris and she killed him. She just did something he didn't want, she didn't stab him in the back. She just did something he didn't exactly approve of. He didn't think she was a huge threat to him at that point. There's a big difference between mindless murderess and ruthless bitch.

They refrained from executing her for her myriad crimes because she claimed to have changed, and then she demonstrated absolute untrustworthiness. You act as though murdering Aldaris was her only crime against the Protoss.

How is she at their mercy? She has a brood at her command at least, and no reason to stay. She would have just left anyway. Negligible difference.

She was in the middle of a battlefield between two fully armed Protoss armies. I don't know how large a Brood you imagine the Protoss would have allowed her to bring to Shakuras, but even if she could have escaped anyway, this deserves to be treated as such, rather than this absurdity of exile.

No, it just means she was mistaken (and not grossly mistaken) and Mengsk wasn't alone, he had the Protoss and UED along with him. And she beat them anyway. I'm not talking about Wings of Liberty, though. And in that instance, it was a surgical strike on Char (while most of the Swarm was off invading) to use the Artifact on Kerrigan.

So she's hyper-competent because when she makes stupid decisions just to satisfy her inhuman cruelty, she either scrapes by anyway because the Zerg were overpowered in Brood War or when she actually loses those instances don't count?

No, my point is Raszagal had served her purpose. Kerrigan had already won. She didn't need Raszagal anymore because the Dark Templar had done what she wanted and she now had control over the Swarm.

So she's hyper-competent because she has no vision for the future and sacrifices valuable assets just for the sake of childish gloating?

She killed Aldaris because he was mucking things up (they were wasting time fighting him instead of using the Temple to destroy the Renegade Zerg) and had information that endangered her plans. (which he was about to reveal)

Precisely. Information he obtained because Kerrigan decided to intervene in a situation where her influence was neither needed nor useful to her. She saved her own arse at the last minute from a problem she herself created. And then gloated about how awesome she was.

Well, first off she was hardly commiting suicide. It didn't even make her plans more difficult in the long run. She hadn't deceived them (well she had but she wasn't telling them that yet). She was gloating that they were going to do what she wanted anyway.

It's basically a case of:

Zeratul: Get lost. This was none of your business.
Kerrigan: Fine, but you're going to do what I want you to do anyway, so whatever doesn't matter.

She wasn't saying "Well okay, but I'm going to come back and trick you into helping me destroy the Overmind so that I can take over the Swarm and then wipe out the entire galaxy and rule it as it's queen."

It was a case of the worst criminal in history showing up in their enemy's bunker and saying "Ha, ha, ha I can't believe you morons fell for my 'change of heart' assertion! Suckers! Anyway, I seem to be surrounded by your soldiers, would you mind escorting me back home?"

I dunno why she let Raynor live. It's never actually brought up. I think she just didn't want to kill him out of lingering affection personally. (Or he just slipped away) But she didn't intentionally not kill him, that's never said. Mengsk she totally let live because she wanted to gloat, yeah. She wanted revenge. I don't know what your point is. Like, seriously, it's like people will only accept that Kerrigan is intelligent if she was a totally unfeeling machine who did everything purely logically and wanted nothing but power. That's not who she is. But again, that doesn't make her one-dimensional and it doesn't make her unintelligent. She lets Zeratul live because she wants him to suffer. She lets Mengsk live because she wants him to suffer. That doesn't make her stupid.

I do not expect her to be a purely logical creature, that would be terrible character. Many of these incidents, taken individually, would not prevent her from being a competent and intelligent character (though I wonder if you extend the same courtesy to Arcturus Mengsk's long list of terrible calls throughout Wings of Liberty?) I was simply giving a number of examples of Kerrigan making calls ranging from utterly stupid to wrong. If you wish to defend your statement that Kerrigan was hyper-competent in Brood War you are free to provide arguments supporting that position, and we can move to that. Keep in mind two things however:
1- I will not count Kerrigan as being competent for things that are due to the Swarm's massive power boost in Brood War
2- I do not count actions attributable to Samir Duran as achievements for Kerrigan. Especially given that Duran was using Kerrigan all along.

Because he didn't want to believe Kerrigan had changed. That's why he did what he did.

He did what he did because he had uncovered Raszagal's secret. This is pretty explicitly told. The fact that this is true is exactly why Kerrigan killed him. He did not believe Kerrigan had changed, was correct, and uncovered evidence demonstrating that fact. This is precisely why I call him the smartest character in Brood War outside The Iron Fist. I do not rightly understand how this makes him "a stubborn ass".

[Aldrius]

Do you have any basis for this? Because it sounds like you're letting your desired conclusions shape your perception of the facts. You have not provided with any consistent methodology for Kerrigan that assumes her to be even marginally competent.

She forced him to kill his matriarch and then let him live with the guilt? Why would she do that unless she just flat out did not like the dude. It's not from something she SAYS, it's from what she does. Either way, her goal was obviously to screw with Zeratul. Either because she enjoys screwing with people in general or because it was Zeratul. I choose to believe it was the latter, but that's not really got a basis in the dialogue... I guess. It's pretty clear to me personally, though, that she doesn't like him in particular. More so than Artanis or anyone else. I THINK it's because of her humiliation at his and Tassadar's hands (when the Overmind was killed) but I dunno that for sure.

Nor does it say that the Protoss were utterly defeated. Or defeated at all. In fact, what it does say is that the fighting had ended (the battlefields were silent), the Swarms were broken, and the Protoss had achieved (a costly) victory.

Their home planet was ruined by a war. I choose to believe they're not in a very strong position at that point. The Zerg aren't either of course, but your point was that they couldn't be a threat, and they could. They spent the whole SC1 Protoss campaign wiping out the Protoss. Even Tassadar says they were losing the war. Yes, the Protoss were victorious in killing the Overmind but that doesn't mean the Zerg weren't still a threat. Especially after the losses they incurred. And the Zerg weren't 'leaderless'. Daggoth was still around.

Any basis for this, or even why they would be inclined to believe such a thing?

Raynor says as much. That she can't be trusted, but she will take out the UED. And then Kerrigan says they're siding with the enemy they know over the enemy they don't. The specific reasons are my assumptions, but they're based on things the characters say and what they do.

And why would they think this? Raynor and Fenix were found on Aiur, just after the great war with the Zerg. What have they seen of the UED? That they were hunting Arcturus Mengsk? That they were forced to retreat when Kerrigan's Zerg attacked them?

Because it's KERRIGAN. They're not looking at it as the swarm or what the Zerg can do, they're looking at it as Kerrigan. Who is a human being they KNOW. Even if she has been infested. They'd rather she be in charge rather than the UED, which is an unknown factor. They don't know what the UED is gonna do. The UED was also responsible for dethroning Mengsk and were going to kill him. As for Raynor, he wants to believe the best in Kerrigan, he knows what she is, but he wants to believe it. He says as much. Mengsk needs even less justification -- hewants Korhal back and believes Kerrigan will help him regain it. Without her he has nothing, so it's worth the risk. I dunno why Raynor and Fenix are helping her, though. That was never very well explained, but I choose to believe it's not out of stupidity.

Like all this is spelled out in the campaign.

And you consider this "using" Zeratul? You consider this doing something useful, never mind 'hyper-competency'? Especially considering that she put her entire control over Raszagal in jeopardy by doing so?

She wasn't putting it in jeopardy as far as she was concerned. She's not omniscient. She didn't know Aldaris would discover her deception. She's ensuring the Protoss' success in wiping out the Renegade Zerg. You're operating under an assumption that this was a bad idea for something she could not have forseen. She's intelligent, she's not OMNISCIENT, and she's not very shrewd, and she's hardly very subtle.

They refrained from executing her for her myriad crimes because she claimed to have changed, and then she demonstrated absolute untrustworthiness. You act as though murdering Aldaris was her only crime against the Protoss.

I don't even know what you're talking about at this point. They were never talking about executing her AND they were still operating under the assumption that her crimes as the Queen of Blades were under the control of the Overmind. They were pissed that she killed Aldaris without permission mainly at that point.

She was in the middle of a battlefield between two fully armed Protoss armies. I don't know how large a Brood you imagine the Protoss would have allowed her to bring to Shakuras, but even if she could have escaped anyway, this deserves to be treated as such, rather than this absurdity of exile.

He didn't even 'exile' her. He just sort of flippantly told her to leave. It wasn't even that tense a confrontation. And she did help him secure the crystals, so maybe it was a boon on his part for that? I guess he could have said that, but StarCraft always followed a minimalist point of view when it came to dialogue.

So she's hyper-competent because when she makes stupid decisions just to satisfy her inhuman cruelty, she either scrapes by anyway because the Zerg were overpowered in Brood War or when she actually loses those instances don't count?

I didn't say it didn't count. I'm saying things happened that were beyond her control or that she didn't anticipate. (Such as her enemies all joining forces to try to take her down, or an alien artifact and a surprise attack on her planet) Hyper-competent was a bit of hyperbole on my part, though. But I think she's definitely intelligent, and definitely cunning.

So she's hyper-competent because she has no vision for the future and sacrifices valuable assets just for the sake of childish gloating?

Zeratul was no longer a threat to her, the Protoss were no longer a threat to her. "Retconned" or not, the Protoss were a broken race on a foreign planet. They'd done what she needed them to do. Same reason she wiped out Fenix and Duke. Could they have still been useful? Probably. But she didn't need them anymore.

Precisely. Information he obtained because Kerrigan decided to intervene in a situation where her influence was neither needed nor useful to her. She saved her own arse at the last minute from a problem she herself created. And then gloated about how awesome she was.

How do you know she wasn't needed? Or for that matter, how would she know she wasn't needed? She was making sure the job got done and that the Cerebrates on Shakuras were defeated.

It was a case of the worst criminal in history showing up in their enemy's bunker and saying "Ha, ha, ha I can't believe you morons fell for my 'change of heart' assertion! Suckers! Anyway, I seem to be surrounded by your soldiers, would you mind escorting me back home?"

That's a gross over exaggeration. She wasn't stabbing anyone in the back, she wasn't mercilessly hunting down an enemy. She was just taking matters into her own hands where it wasn't wanted. In fact she hasn't even mentioned anything about what she was doing or why she was doing it before Zeratul 'banishes' her. Her only line of dialogue is "I just cleaned up your mess. Don't be so squeamish." How is that 'You fell for my 'change of heart assertion'"... at all?

I do not expect her to be a purely logical creature, that would be terrible character. Many of these incidents, taken individually, would not prevent her from being a competent and intelligent character (though I wonder if you extend the same courtesy to Arcturus Mengsk's long list of terrible calls throughout Wings of Liberty?) I was simply giving a number of examples of Kerrigan making calls ranging from utterly stupid to wrong. If you wish to defend your statement that Kerrigan was hyper-competent in Brood War you are free to provide arguments supporting that position, and we can move to that. Keep in mind two things however:
1- I will not count Kerrigan as being competent for things that are due to the Swarm's massive power boost in Brood War
2- I do not count actions attributable to Samir Duran as achievements for Kerrigan. Especially given that Duran was using Kerrigan all along.

What did Duran do? He suggested two tactics on the battlefield to get things done. Most of the work was Kerrigan's. Mengsk, Raynor, the Dark Templar, all of that was her. And I dunno how he was using her. I see no evidence of that. Just because he wasn't who he said he was or because he had his own goals that... well actually still haven't been explained. There was never any explanation for why he posed as Duran as a Terran or as one of Kerrigan's lieutenants.

He did what he did because he had uncovered Raszagal's secret. This is pretty explicitly told. The fact that this is true is exactly why Kerrigan killed him. He did not believe Kerrigan had changed, was correct, and uncovered evidence demonstrating that fact. This is precisely why I call him the smartest character in Brood War outside The Iron Fist. I do not rightly understand how this makes him "a stubborn ass".

Because he didn't believe Kerrigan had changed for no reason other than that she was infested. Once he uncovered the deception he didn't go to Artanis and Zeratul to tell them what happened, he started warring with them. Either because he believed they were potentially infested as well or because he just flat out didn't believe they'd side with him. Either way, he didn't trust them obviously. Generally speaking his characterization has been that he was not an agreeable or flexible person when it came to change. And quite frankly, his dialogue before his death was extremely combative.

[FanaticTemplar]

You seem to have largely backed into "she didn't need to be competent" and "she didn't want to be competent" defences, which as far as I'm concerned is enough for me since they're basically admissions of incompetence anyway. If you ever want to advance a counter-argument arguing that she did anything intelligent, I would be happy to discuss this further.

[Gradius]

Mengsk: "Korhal will endure! I will endure!"
Kerrigan: "Nice quote. I'll have it engraved on your tombstone."

For a second there, it felt like Brood War Kerrigan was back.

Also, right before Kerrigan rescues Raynor, when the Leviathan "stabilizes" the prison ship by piercing it with a bunch of tentacles, did anybody else think it would be funny if one of those killed Raynor? :P

It'd be like "Ah, damn! That could of went better..."

[Visions of Khas]

Mengsk: "Korhal will endure! I will endure!"
Kerrigan: "Nice quote. I'll have it engraved on your tombstone."

For a second there, it felt like Brood War Kerrigan was back.

I know, right? I instantly flashed back to the battlefield on Korhal: "Fenix: The Khala awaits me, Kerrigan. And although I am prepared to face my destiny, you'll not find me easy prey!"

Kerrigan: "Then that shall be your epitaph."


I'm sure it was an homage to True Colors from Brood War; it was the last time Kerrigan was on Korhal, so it makes a nice little bookend to her visit.

At the same time though I expected Mengsk to pull a Louis XIV or Illusive Man: "I AM Korhal!"

Also, right before Kerrigan rescues Raynor, when the Leviathan "stabilizes" the prison ship by piercing it with a bunch of tentacles

sta·bi·lize (stb-lz)
v. sta·bi·lized, sta·bi·liz·ing, sta·bi·liz·es
v.tr.
1. To make porous to the hard vacuum of space. No, wait...

[Gradius]

You are more optimistic than I. I'm sorry for mentioning that abomination, but the Prophecy arc from Wings of Liberty had you playing as the Protoss and it was the most astonishing parade of defeat I could have conceived.

Mission 1: Run away from Kerrigan while brave Protoss warriors sacrifice themselves to give you a chance of escaping alive!
Mission 2: This is a Hybrid. It has somehow corrupted this entire Protoss settlement, and you must now hack your way through your brethren in order to kill it. The Hybrid itself is not important, incidentally, there are thousands like it coming. Just in case you thought you'd achieved something.
Mission 3: This is Aiur, the most sacred icon of Protoss culture, the homeworld of your species. You have been forced to run away from it and it now lies broken and infested, the Overmind ruling over it even in death.
Mission 4: Witness the extinction of the Protoss species.

Hahahah, you were right. Dustin Browder on LoTV:

"Think of it more as Seven Samurai," he said. "This is the Protoss on their last legs, in their final hours, fighting against the darkness that threatens to consume the Universe. And they are the only ones who can stand up to the forces that are arrayed against them. They are the proud few warriors facing the void, facing oblivion on their own, and slowly being picked off one by one. And that's what we're going to try and get across in Legacy of the Void, that real sense of doom, and really give you the sense of what it is like to be this race with those long, and amazing, and glorious traditions, slowly being consumed and snuffed out."

http://www.shacknews.com/article/783...-seven-samurai

I await the glorious defeat-fest in LoTV!

[Telenil]

sta·bi·lize (stb-lz)
v. sta·bi·lized, sta·bi·liz·ing, sta·bi·liz·es
v.tr.
1. To make porous to the hard vacuum of space. No, wait...

Good one =D
By the way, any clue as to why stabilizing the ship would stop a self-destruction process? That's why we had that countdown there, wasn't it?

Also, right before Kerrigan rescues Raynor, when the Leviathan "stabilizes" the prison ship by piercing it with a bunch of tentacles, did anybody else think it would be funny if one of those killed Raynor? :P

It'd be like "Ah, damn! That could of went better..."

I had the same thought when Mengsk explodes. A firestorm erupts, blowing the windows off and instantly killing Raynor by burning his face left exposed by the open visor. A tragic end for our heroes, literally consumed by their hatred for Mengsk.