Gradius's HoTS Story Review

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Sorry you believe that because the story itself is very good; better than most hollywood nonsense.

Some of the lines of the characters are fouled up, but mostly, the actual content of the story is very well done, considering there isn't much innovation or originality to be had in the sci-fi universe in general.

Yeah that's not hard.

The story is simple, most of the time illogical and too straightforward.

[TheEconomist]

Sorry you believe that because the story itself is very good; better than most hollywood nonsense.

So I should be impressed that a somewhat story driven video game that has been in development for a decade was better than the average popcorn summer flick? Seriously?

considering there isn't much innovation or originality to be had in the sci-fi universe in general.

Stop wasting your time with nonsense and read some real science fiction novels.

[Nissa]

So I should be impressed that a somewhat story driven video game that has been in development for a decade was better than the average popcorn summer flick? Seriously?

Of course not, because SC2 wasn't even that good.

Stop wasting your time with nonsense and read some real science fiction novels.

Seconded.

[Aldrius]

He is/was uniquely involved with the gameplay aspect of SC2. He had VERY little to do with the story-telling side.

He's the game director. He's involved in developing the story and mission development. He's not the person writing it, but he's responsible for it regardless.

It's the same case with Metzen. Metzen doesn't write anything himself anymore, but he's still responsible for what gets written.

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He is/was uniquely involved with the gameplay aspect of SC2. He had VERY little to do with the story-telling side.

He's the game director. He's involved in developing the story and mission development. He's not the person writing it, but he's responsible for it regardless.

It's the same case with Metzen. Metzen doesn't write anything himself anymore, but he's still responsible for what gets written.

[Nissa]

Well, if that's really the case (no offense, but we outsiders really can't call these things for sure), then it's a darned shame. Starcraft worked early on because it was a labor of love by developers who wanted to take a break from bigger projects. Heck, if I recall correctly, the guy who voiced Fenix also catered the project. People with passion will always do better than people with money to hire others.

[Aldrius]

Well, if that's really the case (no offense, but we outsiders really can't call these things for sure), then it's a darned shame. Starcraft worked early on because it was a labor of love by developers who wanted to take a break from bigger projects. Heck, if I recall correctly, the guy who voiced Fenix also catered the project. People with passion will always do better than people with money to hire others.

Well he's not credited as writing anything. When you work in a company, eventually you get promoted and the actual grunt work is passed off to someone new while you graduate to a more macro-management position. Obviously I'm not sure, but it seems to me like basically, Metzen came up with the vaguest notion of what the plot of SC2: WoL was. Artifact stuff and everyone hunting for it. Zeratul on galaxy-hopping mission to go and find information about the Xel'Naga. Raynor fighting a revolution against the Dominion. Kerrigan being involved in all of this.

And I think as a skeleton, that's not a bad plot. Certainly follows up on plot threads from Brood War. Gives all the major characters (Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, Raynor) something important to do. I think Tychus was also a cool addition to the cast who acted as a nice foil for Jim, and wasn't really something we'd seen in StarCraft before. So he didn't feel too derivative.

But the actual execution, and some of the creative decisions (like the voice recasts) were just not good. They also raved and raved about their new mission formula, when it turned out a good third of the missions were holdout missions, and really it was more a difference of better visuals than anything concrete about the mission itself. Brood War had lots of variety in it's mission structure, and while it was a lot simpler and less flashy, it usually followed the plot a lot better and felt more paramount. (True Colours for example gives you a great sense of the surprise attack -- and that whole mission is about duplicity and treachery.) And that even fits the Lurker unit and it's whole surprise attack feel.

That's how cool Blizzard used to be, the mission that introduces a brand new unit for a race is thematically tied into the story and gameplay concept of a mission. You can even make a somewhat similar case for the mission that introduces the Dark Archon...

What's the story significance of the great train robbery? Trains go fast. Diamondbacks go fast. Diamondbacks catch trains. An admitted oversimplification, and I guess there's a bit of a case to be made for them being old Confederate technology, but I think there were a lot of better ways to do that. And I think the whole story of going back to Tarsonis could have been a lot more interesting.

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Well, if that's really the case (no offense, but we outsiders really can't call these things for sure), then it's a darned shame. Starcraft worked early on because it was a labor of love by developers who wanted to take a break from bigger projects. Heck, if I recall correctly, the guy who voiced Fenix also catered the project. People with passion will always do better than people with money to hire others.

Well he's not credited as writing anything. When you work in a company, eventually you get promoted and the actual grunt work is passed off to someone new while you graduate to a more macro-management position. Obviously I'm not sure, but it seems to me like basically, Metzen came up with the vaguest notion of what the plot of SC2: WoL was. Artifact stuff and everyone hunting for it. Zeratul on galaxy-hopping mission to go and find information about the Xel'Naga. Raynor fighting a revolution against the Dominion. Kerrigan being involved in all of this.

And I think as a skeleton, that's not a bad plot. Certainly follows up on plot threads from Brood War. Gives all the major characters (Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, Raynor) something important to do. I think Tychus was also a cool addition to the cast who acted as a nice foil for Jim, and wasn't really something we'd seen in StarCraft before. So he didn't feel too derivative.

But the actual execution, and some of the creative decisions (like the voice recasts) were just not good. They also raved and raved about their new mission formula, when it turned out a good third of the missions were holdout missions, and really it was more a difference of better visuals than anything concrete about the mission itself. Brood War had lots of variety in it's mission structure, and while it was a lot simpler and less flashy, it usually followed the plot a lot better and felt more paramount. (True Colours for example gives you a great sense of the surprise attack -- and that whole mission is about duplicity and treachery.) And that even fits the Lurker unit and it's whole surprise attack feel.

That's how cool Blizzard used to be, the mission that introduces a brand new unit for a race is thematically tied into the story and gameplay concept of a mission. You can even make a somewhat similar case for the mission that introduces the Dark Archon...

What's the story significance of the great train robbery? Trains go fast. Diamondbacks go fast. Diamondbacks catch trains. An admitted oversimplification, and I guess there's a bit of a case to be made for them being old Confederate technology, but I think there were a lot of better ways to do that. And I think the whole story of going back to Tarsonis could have been a lot more interesting.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"And I think as a skeleton, that's not a bad plot. Certainly follows up on plot threads from Brood War. Gives all the major characters (Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, Raynor) something important to do. I think Tychus was also a cool addition to the cast who acted as a nice foil for Jim, and wasn't really something we'd seen in StarCraft before. So he didn't feel too derivative."

It would've been a decent plot if they had three campaign structure per game instead of stretching one game as three.

It was too much "The Raynor show" and not really StarCraft (which was not a character driven series until Episode VI)

[Aldrius]

"And I think as a skeleton, that's not a bad plot. Certainly follows up on plot threads from Brood War. Gives all the major characters (Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, Raynor) something important to do. I think Tychus was also a cool addition to the cast who acted as a nice foil for Jim, and wasn't really something we'd seen in StarCraft before. So he didn't feel too derivative."

It would've been a decent plot if they had three campaign structure per game instead of stretching one game as three.

It was too much "The Raynor show" and not really StarCraft (which was not a character driven series until Episode VI)

I think the one campaign per release is... an okay idea that's been done really badly. Thirty missions is just too many, and if it was like... 12-18 essential missions. With 7 optional/side missions (like the Hanson one) then that'd be fine, but they tried to make them all feel equally important. Bad move IMO.

I can't think of a single StarCraft campaign that's not character driven (Raynor for RY, Kerrigan/the Overmind for OM, Fenix/Tassadar for The Fall, Artanis and Zeratul for The Stand, Dugalle and Stukov for Iron Fist, Kerrigan for Queen of Blades). It's just they usually had larger, more diverse casts.

But yeah, there was way too much Raynor in Wings of Liberty. He's not really a strong enough character for that. And really the whole supporting cast is just completely based around Raynor. And also aren't that interesting.

In Rebel Yell you have the every man hero, the mysterious black ops operative with a past, the morally ambiguous rebel crusader, the stuffy military bureaucrat. By comparison the characters in Wings of Liberty were much more functional in nature. Swann is the guy who builds machines, Stetson and Hanson were scientisits... really only Tychus is the only character with any agency or anything resembling an arc. And even then... he's more like comic relief.

It's even worse in Heart of the Swarm. The whole story is really just Kerrigan and a bunch of Zerg with absolutely zero agency and no personality to speak of. (Abathur's FUNNY, but as far as goals, development, anything else? Nada.) Raynor plays a REALLY small role, Zeratul plays an even tinier role and Mengsk appears like... once, and it's a really minor scene.

Like the whole Mengsk scene is really hollow fanservice. What we may have wanted to see in the original StarCraft, but not really a triumphant moment for Kerrigan.

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"And I think as a skeleton, that's not a bad plot. Certainly follows up on plot threads from Brood War. Gives all the major characters (Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, Raynor) something important to do. I think Tychus was also a cool addition to the cast who acted as a nice foil for Jim, and wasn't really something we'd seen in StarCraft before. So he didn't feel too derivative."

It would've been a decent plot if they had three campaign structure per game instead of stretching one game as three.

It was too much "The Raynor show" and not really StarCraft (which was not a character driven series until Episode VI)

I think the one campaign per release is... an okay idea that's been done really badly. Thirty missions is just too many, and if it was like... 12-18 essential missions. With 7 optional/side missions (like the Hanson one) then that'd be fine, but they tried to make them all feel equally important. Bad move IMO.

I can't think of a single StarCraft campaign that's not character driven (Raynor for RY, Kerrigan/the Overmind for OM, Fenix/Tassadar for The Fall, Artanis and Zeratul for The Stand, Dugalle and Stukov for Iron Fist, Kerrigan for Queen of Blades). It's just they usually had larger, more diverse casts.

But yeah, there was way too much Raynor in Wings of Liberty. He's not really a strong enough character for that. And really the whole supporting cast is just completely based around Raynor. And also aren't that interesting.

In Rebel Yell you have the every man hero, the mysterious black ops operative with a past, the morally ambiguous rebel crusader, the stuffy military bureaucrat. By comparison the characters in Wings of Liberty were much more functional in nature. Swann is the guy who builds machines, Stetson and Hanson were scientisits... really only Tychus is the only character with any agency or anything resembling an arc. And even then... he's more like comic relief.

It's even worse in Heart of the Swarm. The whole story is really just Kerrigan and a bunch of Zerg with absolutely zero agency and no personality to speak of. (Abathur's FUNNY, but as far as goals, development, anything else? Nada.) Raynor plays a REALLY small role, Zeratul plays an even tinier role and Mengsk appears like... once, and it's a really minor scene.

Like the whole Mengsk scene is really hollow fanservice. What we may have wanted to see in the original StarCraft, but not really a triumphant moment for Kerrigan.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"I think the one campaign per release is... an okay idea that's been done really badly. Thirty missions is just too many, and if it was like... 12-18 essential missions. With 7 optional/side missions (like the Hanson one) then that'd be fine, but they tried to make them all feel equally important. Bad move IMO.

Nope.

I disagree, I don't like short campaigns, anything less than 25 missions for a full single player game is unacceptable and not worth my money (looking at you HotS)

If they wanted to do ONE campaign per game nigh every mission should be important and there should be mulitple important events in the background (I also don't want to play as generic good guys either)

"I can't think of a single StarCraft campaign that's not character driven (Raynor for RY, Kerrigan/the Overmind for OM, Fenix/Tassadar for The Fall, Artanis and Zeratul for The Stand, Dugalle and Stukov for Iron Fist, Kerrigan for Queen of Blades). It's just they usually had larger, more diverse casts.

All of vanilla is EVENT driven,Raynor is not central for Rebel yell, he's a buddy cop type not the lead nor the focus, Kerrigan is absent through Half of Overmind and the campaign is driven by the Zerg's war against the Protoss and not "Daggoth's personal vendetta"

The Fall is about the Protoss in general and the zerg invasion of their home, Tassadar is minor in the first three missions

The Stand is about Protoss in general and the coalition against daggoth's LOYALIST (not fking renegade) Swarm.

Iron Fist is DEFINITELY NOT about the two admirals, it's focused on the UED kicking a hornets nest.

QOB is the only one that's character driven, it's bascially the Kerrigan show Episode 1 and as such it's worse off.

Everything else you said I agree with.

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"I think the one campaign per release is... an okay idea that's been done really badly. Thirty missions is just too many, and if it was like... 12-18 essential missions. With 7 optional/side missions (like the Hanson one) then that'd be fine, but they tried to make them all feel equally important. Bad move IMO.

Nope.

I disagree, I don't like short campaigns, anything less than 25 missions for a full single player game is unacceptable and not worth my money (looking at you HotS)

If they wanted to do ONE campaign per game nigh every mission should be important and there should be mulitple important events in the background (I also don't want to play as generic good guys either)

"I can't think of a single StarCraft campaign that's not character driven (Raynor for RY, Kerrigan/the Overmind for OM, Fenix/Tassadar for The Fall, Artanis and Zeratul for The Stand, Dugalle and Stukov for Iron Fist, Kerrigan for Queen of Blades). It's just they usually had larger, more diverse casts.

All of vanilla is EVENT driven,Raynor is not central for Rebel yell, he's a buddy cop type not the lead nor the focus, Kerrigan is absent through Half of Overmind and the campaign is driven by the Zerg's war against the Protoss and not "Daggoth's personal vendetta"

The Fall is about the Protoss in general and the zerg invasion of their home, Tassadar is minor in the first three missions

The Stand is about Protoss in general and the coalition against daggoth's LOYALIST (not fking renegade) Swarm.

Iron Fist is DEFINITELY NOT about the two admirals, it's focused on the UED kicking a hornets nest.

QOB is the only one that's character driven, it's bascially the Kerrigan show Episode 1 and as such it's worse off.

Everything else you said I agree with.

[Aldrius]

I disagree, I don't like short campaigns, anything less than 25 missions for a full single player game is unacceptable and not worth my money (looking at you HotS)

I'll take quality over quantity any day. A good story with a number of engaging missions is way better than something that seems incapable of justifying it's length and just keeps going. My point was more, if they wanted to have all those incidental side missions (like Hanson/Tosh) they should have really had a strong core narrative to support them. Instead the whole thing feels like some random grab bag.

I'd say Iron Fist is definitely about the relationship between the two admirals. Overmind is... surprise, surprise, about the Overmind (with Kerrigan playing a strong secondary role mostly in the middle portion), he might not be in the first two missions but the Fall is absolutely about Tassadar. Maybe the stories aren't necessarily character driven, but characters definitely play a very large role in the stories, the characters I mentioned at the very least the protagonists of their stories (and the 'POV' characters are nothing more than cheap translations of them into a First Person characterization usually.) Regardless, either way Wings of Liberty has way bigger issues than it's focus on Raynor.

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I disagree, I don't like short campaigns, anything less than 25 missions for a full single player game is unacceptable and not worth my money (looking at you HotS)

I'll take quality over quantity any day. A good story with lots of engaging missions is way better than something that seems incapable of justifying it's length. My point was more, if they wanted to have all those incidental side missions (like Hanson/Tosh) they should have really had a strong core narrative to support them.

I'd say Iron Fist is definitely about the relationship between the two admirals. Overmind is... surprise, surprise, about the Overmind (with Kerrigan playing a strong secondary role mostly in the middle portion), he might not be in the first two missions but the Fall is absolutely about Tassadar. Maybe the stories aren't necessarily character driven, but characters definitely play a very large role in the stories, the characters I mentioned at the very least the protagonists of their stories (and the 'POV' characters are nothing more than cheap translations of them into a First Person characterization usually.) Regardless, either way Wings of Liberty has way bigger issues than it's focus on Raynor.