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Thread: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

  1. #201
    TSCR's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    I feel like I'm missing something here. What is the point of using the artifact if it simultaneously releases Amon and weakens Kerrigan? Shouldn't all parties involved (Raynor, Zeratul, Kerrigan) have been against this? Zeratul should have said something along the lines of "hey, don't use the artifact to deinfest Kerrigan, she is willing to fight Amon and we need her at full strength". Considering that the swarms were "broken" after this, and all the zerg in Char's space went feral and killed each other, I doubt this was the best course of action.
    Probable that none of them knew that the deinfestation would help to revive Amon.

    But in all honesty I think the only reason Kerrigan was deinfested temporarily is so she could get some love time with Raynor. That's what I don't get about SC2's writers. Why are they so obssessed with making a relationship between Raynor and Kerrigan and ignoring/retconning all the other stuff established from previous lore + write a contradictory story? It's like my son, who didn't like Brood War, wrote the plot but there are plenty of fans who like Brood War so I don't see how less enthusiastic writers can be a problem for Blizzard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Aah, but you don't realise that Raynor has the opportunity to miss viewing Zeratul's crystal so, in theory, Raynor would want to deinfest her completely solely because there is a chance to "get the girl back", not to mention redeeming himself in his own eyes for his own perceived failure at not being able to save Kerrigan the first time. The latter's a bit sketchy and headcanon-ish but I like the idea even though the game doesn't really hint at this.

    Even if Raynor did hear the rest of Zeratul's ramblings about not killing the Queen of Blades, fully deinfesting her does not mean the Queen of Blades is dead for good, that Kerrigan can't be the Queen of Blades at some other point in time nor the fulfillment of the prophecy of doom (though it would have been quite funny if it did, frankly...). HotS then goes to prove such a point.

    Besides, there is evidence Raynor is not "right-in-the-head" in WoL so it could just be likely that Raynor just doesn't give a damn - he sure didn't mind suicidally charging the Bucephalus whilst outnumbered and outgunned, boarding it and leading a full frontal assault in person!
    It would really be stupid of Raynor to ignore a crystal for which Tassadar said 'the answers you seek lie within'. The cannon choice is that he should have viewed it. I mean Raynor has already given no love to his old friend Fenix, he can't possibly be mean enough to ignore Zeratul as well right?

    But that's the point. Zerus is far away and outside the Koprulu Sector. How would the Terrans know of it? If Raynor was aiming to get Kerrigan 100% fully deinfested then it means he was as good as helping Amon (because there's no way he would know of how to reinfest her and neither did any other Terran + Why would they? Valerian said his aim was to defeat the QoB). If Zeratul saw what he was doing then he would probably facepalm.
    Last edited by TSCR; 05-14-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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  2. #202
    TSCR's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawki View Post
    The purpose of the artifact was not to release Kerrigan. Narud spells that out explicitly. Unless he's lying of course, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for him to do so at the point in time.

    Lots of spec, but premise seems to be (and there is some key spec):

    -1: Artifact created. Date of creation is after most xel'naga relics. DoC must come after uplift of zerg. Likely requesitioned from existing tech given Narud's comments.

    -2: Artifact divided amongst temples. Tal'darim come later. Jury's out as to whether the Tal'darim came to those worlds before or after such sequestration. My guess is after.

    (Spec): Speculating that Duran is Routhe or Narud is Routhe (or that Duran and Narud are the same), Routhe/whoever sends terrans into K-sector via ATLAS. A relatively powerful species (as in, when compared to tagal and kalathi for instance) in place that can be easily manipulated will serve him well when it comes to hybrid breeding, using them against the zerg, etc.)

    -3: Amon "whispers from the stars" to Kerrigan at the end of BW. Gives her a premonition, prompts her to keep her forces in place for alotted time period. Gives Narud/Duran time to infiltrate Moebius, breed more hybrids, time for Dominion to rebuild, etc.

    -4: Kerrigan makes her move, artifact components recovered. Energy from de-infestation used to revive Amon.

    -5: Thanks to Overmind/Tassadar/Zeratul/Raynor, hitch in Amon's plan in that Kerrigan is left alive.

    So basically, it seems that bar whatever caused his first death, so far everything's gone to Amon's plan bar point 5. Though there is another theory I've seen floating around/thought on:

    -1: Amon creates a false prophecy that will be stumbled on by Zeratul. This leads him to Aiur.

    -2: The Overmind never had a vision, and no alternate future existed. Amon/a servant poses as Tassadar which gives Zeratul a false vision, which necessitates use of artifact rather than conventional means.

    -3: The artifact is used, giving Amon the energy he needs to revive. Everything afterwards is a moot point.

    More inclined to go for the first sequence of events. Then again, HotS was apparently altered between 2011 and '13 storywise (mostly for the worse IMO, but that's subjective), so the jury's still out. Still, WoL is to SC2 what RY is to SC1. Relatively self-contained that has limited impacts on subsequent campaigns, but the influence is still there, with characters bridging the two.

    Edit: Come to think of it, the xel'naga are kind of doing the same thing. Kind of a ramble, but when the nerd juices flow, they flow:

    1) Xel'naga indirectly predict the events of the Great War. Zerg (or at least Zargil) learns of it at some point, prophecy is recorded on Ulaan, or Zeratul already knew of the prediction prior to visiting the world.

    2) Zerg screw the xel'naga over at Zerus. Amon killed during/prior to this event.

    3) Arms race of sort occurs. Zerg head for protoss space, intent on assimilation/destruction. Xel'naga, now in danger of extinction, sequester energy creatures in temples in/around Koprulu.

    (Technically they could be Amon's but I doubt it - every hybrid we've seen has been the result of gene splicing, whilst the energy creatures gather essence much more efficiently. I know Narud/Duran has to work with terran tech, but he's still gimping himself).

    4) Great War begins, protoss and zerg in contact. Amon's followers get genetic material to create hybrids. Xel'naga get genetic material (or heck, maybe they've been doing it beforehand) to spawn energy creatures. Hybrids are used for Amon's ressurrection, energy creatures used to rebuild xel'naga race in a quickstart rather than the slow process of intergration they usually rely upon.

    5) Xel'naga play the game further through Zeratul, using him to use Kerrigan to get her to Zerus, building up the zerg as a force against Amon.

    6) LotV occurs. One where I hope (but doubt) the xel'naga get what they deserve as well (Aiur and the protoss, the people of Xil and Helios, the Voice in the Darkness, everyone the zerg has killed, etc.)

    6a) Which makes me wonder actually - Amon is his own thing. Is Vindictus a xel'naga, and if so, his counterpart? Or is he an archon?

    7) Profit!
    I like the latter better but I doubt SC2's writers will take a route like that.
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  3. #203

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    1) The obvious hints that Kerrigan is under Raszagal's influence IS foreshadowing of the mind control.
    2) It'd be one thing if Raynor demonstrated this ability all of a sudden...but not the person who already controls thousands of other minds.
    3) Dark Archons are powerful psychics, and they can use mind control. Kerrigan is a powerful psychic (demonstrated by multiple missions in vanilla), and she can also use mind control.
    So, given that your argument is that "being under the influence" is foreshadowing enough for mind control, and being a psychic - even a psychic that has never demonstrated the least ability for mental influence over the course of five entire campaigns - is justification enough for mind control, would you say you would have been fine with Wings of Liberty revealing to us in its final cinematic that Tychus had been under Mengsk's mind control the entire time? Certainly, Mengsk is not himself a psychic, but he does employ an army of them, some of which are, like Nova, quite powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    and this is probably one of the weaker criticisms against BW in my opinion.
    It is largely trivial, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    ...
    I'm going to try to make this as clear as possible.

    Kerrigan's victories in Brood War are due to either the plot-mandated stupidity of her adversaries or powers she was born into and has done nothing to earn.

    So, what has Kerrigan achieved in StarCraft II?

    1- She mind-controlled Raszagal.
    2- She destroyed the Psi Disrupter.
    3- She stole some resources from Moria.
    4- She kicked the UED off Korhal.
    5- She killed Edmund Duke and Fenix.
    6- She kidnapped Raszagal from Shakuras.
    7- She killed the second Overmind.
    8- She destroyed every other force in the Sector at the same time.

    Let's break that up.

    Victories based on the stupidity of her adversaries:

    2- She destroyed the Psi Disrupter. - To destroy the Psi Disrupter, she required the help of Mengsk and Raynor. Now, despite what you may expect, this is fine. Mengsk's established view of "ruling this Sector or seeing in burnt to ashes" fits in perfectly with this scenario - either Kerrigan keeps her promise and he indeed gets to rule the Dominion again, or she doesn't and the entire Sector is consumed by the Swarm. It may be stupid, but it's character-consistent stupid and not plot-induced stupidity, so it's perfectly legitimate for Kerrigan to exploit it. Raynor, meanwhile, still loves Kerrigan and is willing to do massively stupid things out of hope she can be saved, so again, legitimately exploitable. Well done, Kerrigan.

    Now, here's where we get our problem: even with the suddenly retconned Psi Emitter provided by Mengsk, Kerrigan still needs Raynor's Raiders to take down the Psi Emitter's Power Generators before she can move on the Disrupter. So while it could have been fair to say that Kerrigan's Swarm overran the UED garrison, keep in mind that the mission first requires Raynor's Raiders to overrun the garrison. And as legitimate as you may feel Media Blitz was, that mission was framed as "sneaking into" Korhal. This mission, where you attack the galactic conquering force's critical asset is not. In fact, in one of her bouts of cripplingly self-destructive arrogance, Kerrigan warns DuGalle, in person, that she will be attacking the Psi Disrupter. Thankfully, plot-induced stupidity prevents DuGalle from posting enough defences at the Disrupter to prevent a rag-tag militia from crippling it.

    5- She killed Edmund Duke and Fenix. - She stabs Duke and Fenix in the back! Gasp, how treacherous! Question is, why were they turning their back to her in the first place? Of course, Duke is a non-character in Brood War so we're assuming the Mengsk reasoning explained above and I'll let it pass. Fenix though? Why exactly is he trusting Kerrigan? All he knows of Kerrigan is that she was the Swarm's chief enforcer on Char, hunting down Tassadar and Zeratul. Raynor, who is apparently the person closest to her, repeatedly states his mistrust of her. Fenix himself calls out Kerrigan on her true motives for fighting the UED, and when Kerrigan reaches out to Raynor for support - Raynor, whom we're already assuming to be compliable from love to justify his own involvement - answers "Maybe. I don't know." He claims later that he expects her to turn on them. Why is he helping Kerrigan, let alone leaving himself vulnerable to her?

    6- She kidnapped Raszagal from Shakuras. - Hey, did you know that Shakuras has this massive Zerg-killing superweapon that can eradicate the Zerg from the surface of the entire planet? Don't worry, the Protoss on Shakuras forgot that too.

    7- She killed the second Overmind. - Thanks to her mind control over Raszagal, which is point 1 which we'll get to soon. But it bears repeating that, as this is the crux of her entire plan for interplanetary conquest, you'd think she'd try really hard to make sure this works. Or, at the very least not actively try to screw it up by allowing her cripplingly self-destructive arrogance to get in the way. Even ignoring how she promised that she would "allow" Raszagal to return with so much emphasis on the word that even a twelve year old (which I was) could have predicted what was going to happen (which I did). Only someone who has beheld the birth of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities could have missed that.

    But again, ignoring that Kerrigan spent The Stand going to Shakuras, putting her mole at risk of discovery (which is precisely what happened) for no demonstrable gains. In desperation, she was forced to murder the Protoss in question to prevent him from revealing her plans. So, aside from the stupid decision to go to Shakuras in the first place, how does this rely on the plot-induced stupidity of others to succeed?

    1- It relies on getting an opening to kill Aldaris caused by a civil war between the Protoss when Aldaris attempts to take down her puppet and Raszagal ordering her followers to kill Aldaris. Which is fine, since that's an entirely predictable result, especially with Raszagal under her control. It also relies on nobody ever bothering to find out why Aldaris is attacking them, and Aldaris never mentioning it, which is completely stupid and contrary to the established character of Aldaris in particular. Aldaris was an antagonist responsible for a civil war among the Protoss during The Fall and consistently contacted the other side to explain why he was in the right and they should surrender. Even in this very mission, Aldaris contacts the other side, but thankfully never mentions the crucial information of why he is rebelling. Because that would have caused Kerrigan's plan to kill the Overmind to fail, so plot-induced stupidity is the only recourse.

    2- It relies on the Protoss allowing her to leave alive after murdering a respected Protoss leader, mocking the Protoss and then threatening them. This while she is already considered a criminal to the Protoss species, if not all living things. Nobody trusts her. Nobody trusts her, not Aldaris who earlier claims "She lies! She is infested to the core!" and then "Those of us still loyal to the memory of Aiur will never be slaves to Kerrigan and her Broods." Nor Artanis, who earlier claims "you cannot expect us to forgive Kerrigan's crimes against our race!" and later "This entire chain of events has been masterminded by Kerrigan, and we played right into her hands!" Not Zeratul who earlier claims that "You are the enemy of all who live, Kerrigan!" and later "As if your word held any value..." And yet, despite all this, the Protoss do not execute her. They do not even lock her up for trial and judgment. Because if they had, Kerrigan's victory over the second Overmind would have been denied, and so the plot requires the Protoss to be monumental idiots.

    Victories based on unearned power:

    1- She mind-controlled Raszagal. - Well, good thing she was born with the potential and then boosted by an outside force to have psychic power comparable to a Dark Archon then, right? Otherwise she might have been forced to devise something clever to secure the support of the Dark Templar Matriarch.

    3- She stole some resources from Moria. - Zerg Swarm + Fenix vs. Kel Morian Combine. Even the game plays this as a pit stop and not an actual threat.

    8- She destroyed every other force in the Sector at the same time. - Every other major force in the Sector at the same time. And the only reason that they are portrayed as any kind of threat is because most of her forces are not available. If the entire Protoss species being at risk of extinction from a scattering of unimportant Zerg in The Stand didn't clue you in, the Zerg are retconned into omnipotence in Brood War. There is no merit at all in winning if you can't lose in the first place.

    Which leaves us with...

    4- She kicked the UED off Korhal. - The UED were also using Zerg, so the "omnipotent Zerg" variable is cancelled out. And unlike with the Psi Disrupter, this battle doesn't rely on the UED's stupidity. By my standards, this achievement is legitimate. So congratulations to Kerrigan, my original statement was flawed, not all of her victories are worthless.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  4. #204
    RetlocLive's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    So...what exactly is your point again?

  5. #205
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    I have written a giant thesis on why the WoL terran campaign is now entirely pointless filler:

    Artifact/Deinfestation Arc

    The biggest justification for the artifact is that it freed Kerrigan from Amon's control. HoTS proved that this hypothesis is simply wrong.

    Kerrigan: Izsha, all around me I see signs of the old Queen of Blades.
    Kerrigan: But I can't remember why I held my forces here on Char for so long.
    Izsha: You were studying the future, planning for a great war.
    Kerrigan: What war? Explain.
    Izsha: You never told us. You only said that you had seen a vision of our extinction. And you wanted us to fight to the last.

    She also outright states that "he never controlled me, but I felt an influence", so this entire arc was redundant. Kerrigan saw the same vision as the Overmind and was willing to resist the dark voice from the get-go, so any "influence" that the dark voice had over her is completely meaningless. Considering that the swarm was totally broken and all the zerg fleets above Char went feral and killed each other, it was better to not use the artifact at all, especially since Kerrigan & Stukov speclate that using the artifact is what awakened Amon in the first place:

    Stukov: I wonder how Narud could hope to resurrect a being as powerful as Amon?
    Kerrigan: I think the hybrid are key. They gather psionic energy. But where would they get enough to resurrect a dead god?
    Stukov: You told me an ancient xel'naga artifact was used to make you human again.
    Stukov: But all the power you wielded as the Queen of Blades... where did it go after your transformation?
    Kerrigan: You mean... there might have been hybrid nearby who gathered it? And... used it to... oh no.
    Stukov: If Narud used the xel'naga artifact in that way... he may already have enough energy to resurrect Amon.

    Really, Zeratul allowing Raynor to deinfest Kerrigan is quite possibly the dumbest thing he could have done.

    And if the artifact was supposed to restore her humanity, then it did a poor job of that as well because there is plenty of evidence that Kerrigan is still evil in HoTS:
    1) Killing protoss & terrans on random planets in the evolution missions for no reason whatsoever. Did Kerrigan really need that random protoss shrine in the baneling evolution mission? What was the point?
    2) Sending broods to destroy entire Dominion supply worlds.
    4) Slaughtering an entire protoss colony for no reason when, after accomplishing all her objectives in the first Kal'Dir mission, she could have just left.

    How is this behavior any kind of upgrade from a mass-murdering psycho? It's not, and when you consider that Kerrigan willingly reinfested herself after several missions, it becomes obvious that the artifact/deinfestation arc was a story that simply did not need to be told and is redundant. It only exists so that Raynor & Kerrigan can smooch in a cutscene, and we can go back to the status quo.

    Rebellion Arc

    We spent lots of time exposing Mengsk. Unfortunately, it did little good and he remained in power. When he announced that the swarm was broken and that Raynor was dead, he achieved a glorious redemption in the eyes of the public (thus nullifying this "he can't kill Raynor because he'll turn into a martyr" nonsense). Even so, when Kerrigan finally takes down Mengsk, there is nothing that you actually accomplished in the Rebellion missions that led to Mengsk's downfall, and there is zero evidence that there is a revolution of any type going on in the first place. Raynor just shows up and fights with Kerrigan. Whoop-dee-doo. It would have been better if he had simply saved his strength for this moment and not wasted his efforts on assaulting the Dominion homeworld in WoL in the first place.

    Tosh Arc

    So after breaking open New Folsom and recruiting the Spectres, it turns out that they don't even get used in bringing down Mengsk. What happened to "I don't quit till Mengsk is dead!" The only time we ever see Spectres is when they're working FOR the Dominion, trying to hunt down Kerrigan. And the only time we see Tosh, assuming we rescued him, was to see his back for five seconds when we're rescuing Raynor, which is pretty insulting. Coincidentally if we didn't rescue him, we still take down Mengsk in the end and nothing changes, as his arc was never that consequential to begin with and reinforces the fact that it was useless filler.

    Hanson Arc

    Nice to see how ordinary colonists are suffering under the invasion, but this arc is simply swept under the rug in the game again. Hanson is speculated to be dead in the Project Blackstone marketing campaign. Haven is so remote that nobody knows whether this is true or not. This is the one arc that doesn't get a single line of dialog referencing it in HoTS, and so this arc ends up being mostly superficial filler.

    Protoss Missions

    This introduces us to the overarching threat in SC2, so it's not really filler. It is however, an unprecented defeat-fest for the protoss, that serves only to retcon most of SC1.


    I'm just saying, if you legitimately enjoyed WoL's story then there is no logical reason for you to enjoy HoTS. I don't think it's possible to actually like both products without wearing Blizzard goggles. Personally, I liked HoTS more, I just wish it would have retconned the Haven A choice so that we don't have to put up with something as ridiculous as Raynor's single battlecruiser beating back the Fleet of the Executor. HoTS did to WoL what WoL did to BW, and I suspect the cycle will keep repeating with Blizzard games.
    Last edited by Gradius; 05-14-2013 at 08:31 PM.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by RetlocLive View Post
    So...what exactly is your point again?
    Reduced to its simplest form, my point is that Kerrigan is not a cunning manipulator/magnificent bastard/whatever.

    I'm sorry about posting so much on something that is unrelated to the topic at hand, but after so much meandering I wanted to put everything together in one place, as clear as I could make it, so I could justify letting the topic go. I'm fairly certain there's no point in arguing further on the topic after that, and promise to try very hard not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    I have written a giant thesis on why the WoL terran campaign is now entirely pointless filler:
    Yeah, Heart of the Swarm reads like it should have occurred instead of Brood War, and Wings of Liberty exists only to recreate the conditions that existed then. And obviously, if Heart of the Swarm had the conditions of Brood War, and Brood War had the conditions of Brood War, then it's pretty hard to believe that anything important happened between them.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  7. #207
    RetlocLive's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    My favorite "fail" is still the Rebellion Arc.

    Bringing back minor side characters such as Mira and Orlan is apparently more important then continuing the actual revolution Raynor started up. Ya...it's not like the arc was named after it or anything... Hell, it's what the freaking game's NAME would lead you to believe. -_-

    Seriously, that really did disappoint me. I didn't expect much continuation from the Hanson or Tosh arcs. I kinda saw them already as lost causes...but I seriously thought the Rebellion arc was actually going to lead somewhere into HotS...and I didn't even get THAT.

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    my point is that Kerrigan is not a cunning manipulator/magnificent bastard/whatever.
    It's definitely what Blizzard was aiming for when it came to writing BW, but in return, they made everyone around Kerrigan stupid so her plans would succeed which I can definitely see why some people think that Kerrigan isn't all that great as what BW wants people to believe. That's really the only flaw here regarding Kerrigan being triumphant over everyone in the sector.

    Like I wasn't bothered by the whole "mind-control" gimmick Kerrigan pulled on Razsagal. I always figured old age caught up to her.

    But then the problem regarding WoL is the failed continuation. We now see Kerrigan as someone who can out-maneuver anyone thanks to her victories throughout Brood War, yet in WoL...shes losing at every corner. The closest she has to a victory is perhaps successfully invading a bunch of irrelevant colony worlds due to the initial Zerg invasion. It's extremely jarring that the Kerrigan who was able to bully everyone to the top in BW is suddenly a laughing stock villian.
    Last edited by RetlocLive; 05-14-2013 at 09:56 PM.

  8. #208

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Ah, I remember the days when the line of argument that one achieves everything in WoL and Kerrigan was being controlled, ergo, that's bad. Now it's being argued that the opposite is the true, and ergo, that's bad.

    Anyway, this is more a subject response rather than a point one, so dividing it accordingly:

    The Artifact/Kerrigan

    Plotwise, this has two purposes - alter Kerrigan's character, and resurrect Amon.

    Point 1 serves its purpose. Kerrigan becoming the Queen of Blades is an example of character change rather than character development, so it's equally valid to use the technique to reverse the technique. Luckily it's not as simple as that, and Kerrigan spends much of HotS doing the things described, but is clearly a different person by the end of it. Light spot at the start, goes into a dark spot after Raynor's supposed death, gets back into a light spot by the end with Korhal and the like.

    Point 2 serves its purpose as well. Resurrects Amon, as was his plan all along as far as I can tell.

    Rebellion Arc

    This is probably the closest to filler. The only lasting impact we see in HotS is the Odin and it's nothing that could be replaced by any other powerful vehicle that Mengsk happened to deploy. However, it does have potential to not be filler - Mengsk doesn't redeem himself bar his mini victory speech and people are going to learn it's a lie as soon as word of Warfield's defeat on Char reaches them. In contrast we have Valerian who gets to play the hero at Korhal albiet for the right reasons.

    Which is also a mark against HotS in that Valerian mentions "his father is beyond redemption" but never really cites why. He could have mentioned discontent and the like, that Mengsk's rule is past saving, etc., but we get nothing. In essence, it's the same problem SC1 has in that we have to take Mengsk's word that the Confederacy is beyond saving when there isn't much to go on that bar his word. It gets some leeway in that HotS is a zerg campaign and therefore we'd have limited insight into what the Dominion was doing, but that would have been the time to provide that insight.

    Maybe it'll be brought up in LotV.

    Spectre Arc

    This is similar to the Rebellion arc but there's a difference. The Rebellion arc has its beginnings within WoL itself. Its means for success is from SC1 but the actions undertaken begin and end within WoL itself. The Spectre arc is taking plot points from Ghost and bringing a degree of closure. Having been royally peaved when Ghost was canceled, it was nice to at least see how the story ended/continued even if we didn't get the story told itself.

    That being said, HotS could have done more to carry it over. Maybe have Spectres among the Raiders on Korhal for instance.

    Hanson Arc

    The arc is contained to WoL. Like the Rebellion arc it's begun and ended within WoL itself. The difference is that it's small scale, making a difference to its series of events while being independent from the war as a whole. Not unlike the Enslavers campaigns really.

    The Cycle

    If the argument that HotS makes WoL filler is a reason to dislike one of them, then it's a flimsy reason. If the argument that HotS makes WoL moot/filler, then that was going on long before, and every game's done that in some form:

    Precursor: Entire campaign is spent fighting for a lost cause, that we know from hindsight already is a lost cause.
    SC1: Rebel Yell mostly superfluous to rest of game, Enslavers separate from main storyline.
    Insurrection/Retribution: Terrans and protoss ultimately accomplish nothing in both cases.
    BW: Not only is the protoss's victory on Aiur rendered moot, but The Fall is largely superfluous to the rest of the game, along with Enslavers II being separate from the main storyline.
    Huncraft: Basically nullifies the entirety of BW.

    So if the argument that nullification/irrelevancy of past events means one shouldn't like something, then by that logic I should dislike every single installment of the series, not to mention that said series is one of many that utilizes that technique, and ergo, I should dislike them too.

    So, with HotS, I wouldn't say I dislike its story. But I don't think it's up to par with many of the others for various reasons. The supposed nullification of events is only part of that reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by RetocLive
    But then the problem regarding WoL is the failed continuation. We now see Kerrigan as someone who can out-maneuver anyone thanks to her victories throughout Brood War, yet in WoL...shes losing at every corner. The closest she has to a victory is perhaps successfully invading a bunch of irrelevant colony worlds due to the initial Zerg invasion. It's extremely jarring that the Kerrigan who was able to bully everyone to the top in BW is suddenly a laughing stock villian.
    The hell? Kerrigan succeeds in every case except Char. The only times she fails is when she tries to retrieve the artifacts.

    It's the entire point of WoL. Raynor can win every battle but can't win the war, and that's reinforced time and time again. It's why I think the smaller arcs work for it because it shows differences being made within the scope of WoL itself on a scale suited for the Raiders, and it only becomes a full frontal war for him after allying with Valerian.
    Last edited by Hawki; 05-14-2013 at 10:04 PM.

  9. #209
    RetlocLive's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Kerrigan succeeds in every case except Char.
    Smash'n'Grab - Lost, Raynor grabs the Artifact before her

    Moebius Mission - Lost, Narud and his colleagues get away

    First Protoss Mission - Lost, Zeratul gets away with the prophecy knowledge

    Care to try again?

  10. #210

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    2- She destroyed the Psi Disrupter. - To destroy the Psi Disrupter, she required the help of Mengsk and Raynor. Now, despite what you may expect, this is fine. Mengsk's established view of "ruling this Sector or seeing in burnt to ashes" fits in perfectly with this scenario - either Kerrigan keeps her promise and he indeed gets to rule the Dominion again, or she doesn't and the entire Sector is consumed by the Swarm. It may be stupid, but it's character-consistent stupid and not plot-induced stupidity, so it's perfectly legitimate for Kerrigan to exploit it. Raynor, meanwhile, still loves Kerrigan and is willing to do massively stupid things out of hope she can be saved, so again, legitimately exploitable. Well done, Kerrigan.

    Now, here's where we get our problem: even with the suddenly retconned Psi Emitter provided by Mengsk, Kerrigan still needs Raynor's Raiders to take down the Psi Emitter's Power Generators before she can move on the Disrupter. So while it could have been fair to say that Kerrigan's Swarm overran the UED garrison, keep in mind that the mission first requires Raynor's Raiders to overrun the garrison. And as legitimate as you may feel Media Blitz was, that mission was framed as "sneaking into" Korhal. This mission, where you attack the galactic conquering force's critical asset is not. In fact, in one of her bouts of cripplingly self-destructive arrogance, Kerrigan warns DuGalle, in person, that she will be attacking the Psi Disrupter. Thankfully, plot-induced stupidity prevents DuGalle from posting enough defences at the Disrupter to prevent a rag-tag militia from crippling it.
    Stuff like this is so shaky. It's a game. Missions are meant to be completed, not be impossibly difficult. Perhaps Dugalle underestimated Kerrigan's threat to destroy the psi disruptor (all too likely, he's a very prideful and stubborn man). Particularly since he's under the impression that she can't even control her broods. I don't see why when Dugalle is being dumb it's to make Kerrigan look good or bad writing, but when Kerrigan is 'being dumb' it proves she's an UNDESERVING HARLOT!

    He wasn't counting on Mengsk and Raynor to back her up, or Kerrigan to have ANY control over the Zerg. Maybe he was being overconfident. It's in-character for sure.

    5- She killed Edmund Duke and Fenix. - She stabs Duke and Fenix in the back! Gasp, how treacherous! Question is, why were they turning their back to her in the first place? Of course, Duke is a non-character in Brood War so we're assuming the Mengsk reasoning explained above and I'll let it pass. Fenix though? Why exactly is he trusting Kerrigan? All he knows of Kerrigan is that she was the Swarm's chief enforcer on Char, hunting down Tassadar and Zeratul. Raynor, who is apparently the person closest to her, repeatedly states his mistrust of her. Fenix himself calls out Kerrigan on her true motives for fighting the UED, and when Kerrigan reaches out to Raynor for support - Raynor, whom we're already assuming to be compliable from love to justify his own involvement - answers "Maybe. I don't know." He claims later that he expects her to turn on them. Why is he helping Kerrigan, let alone leaving himself vulnerable to her?
    Because if they don't then the UED will definitely take over the sector and wipe out everyone. Kerrigan is the lesser of two evils. They could just help no one, or go at it on their own. But why would they? They're less likely to succeed and Kerrigan is offering to help. Even if she stabs them in the back they're still ahead -- they've still put a wrench in the UED's plans.

    That's what I think they were going for anyway. Brood War's dialogue is rather minimalistic and doesn't always explain things very well.

    6- She kidnapped Raszagal from Shakuras. - Hey, did you know that Shakuras has this massive Zerg-killing superweapon that can eradicate the Zerg from the surface of the entire planet? Don't worry, the Protoss on Shakuras forgot that too.
    Surprise attack, takes a while to charge up, causes large amounts of damage to the planet... over what amounted to a Zerg raiding party. Again, lots of logical reasons this wasn't brought in as an issue. Not everything needs to be explained away.

    7- She killed the second Overmind. - Thanks to her mind control over Raszagal, which is point 1 which we'll get to soon. But it bears repeating that, as this is the crux of her entire plan for interplanetary conquest, you'd think she'd try really hard to make sure this works. Or, at the very least not actively try to screw it up by allowing her cripplingly self-destructive arrogance to get in the way. Even ignoring how she promised that she would "allow" Raszagal to return with so much emphasis on the word that even a twelve year old (which I was) could have predicted what was going to happen (which I did). Only someone who has beheld the birth of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities could have missed that.
    Because it didn't matter. The Overmind was a threat either way. Plus his Matriarch told him to do it. Maybe he's suspicious that Kerrigan had mind-controlled her (which it turns out he wasn't), but this is the only person in six campaigns that he shows any affection for or attachment to. (Again, besides maybe Tassadar) It may be 'stupid' but it's in-character. Much like the Dugalle thing.

    But again, ignoring that Kerrigan spent The Stand going to Shakuras, putting her mole at risk of discovery (which is precisely what happened) for no demonstrable gains.
    Those missions would have been harder without Zerg reinforcements or Kerrigan as a hero unit. (Especially the mission with Kerrigan as a hero unit) That's a demonstrable gain.

    1- It relies on getting an opening to kill Aldaris caused by a civil war between the Protoss when Aldaris attempts to take down her puppet and Raszagal ordering her followers to kill Aldaris. Which is fine, since that's an entirely predictable result, especially with Raszagal under her control. It also relies on nobody ever bothering to find out why Aldaris is attacking them, and Aldaris never mentioning it, which is completely stupid and contrary to the established character of Aldaris in particular. Aldaris was an antagonist responsible for a civil war among the Protoss during The Fall and consistently contacted the other side to explain why he was in the right and they should surrender. Even in this very mission, Aldaris contacts the other side, but thankfully never mentions the crucial information of why he is rebelling. Because that would have caused Kerrigan's plan to kill the Overmind to fail, so plot-induced stupidity is the only recourse.
    Again. It's not. He only contacts them after the fighting is done. Also they have no reason to doubt the Matriarch's word. Who tells them he's rebelling because he thinks they should have stayed on Aiur. Which he said at the beginning of the campaign -- he didn't want to run, so this is completely valid. They doubt it, but not enough to question it. As for Aldaris, this does not contradict his character. He did that once. When he was placing Tassadar under arrest. Not launching a shaky rebellion against a foreign government. He was making a declaration. Not 'explaining his behaviour to his enemies'. He's no longer representing the conclave on Aiur. The conclave is gone. He's no longer the law, no he's the insurgent, the rebel.

    It's something that, yes, would have stopped Kerrigan's plans, but I don't see how it's something that SHOULD have happened. (And even if it had, Raszagal or Kerrigan could have probably cut him off) It counts on Aldaris caring about what happens to Artanis and Zeratul, when he CLEARLY doesn't.

    2- It relies on the Protoss allowing her to leave alive after murdering a respected Protoss leader, mocking the Protoss and then threatening them. This while she is already considered a criminal to the Protoss species, if not all living things. Nobody trusts her. Nobody trusts her, not Aldaris who earlier claims "She lies! She is infested to the core!" and then "Those of us still loyal to the memory of Aiur will never be slaves to Kerrigan and her Broods." Nor Artanis, who earlier claims "you cannot expect us to forgive Kerrigan's crimes against our race!" and later "This entire chain of events has been masterminded by Kerrigan, and we played right into her hands!" Not Zeratul who earlier claims that "You are the enemy of all who live, Kerrigan!" and later "As if your word held any value..." And yet, despite all this, the Protoss do not execute her. They do not even lock her up for trial and judgment. Because if they had, Kerrigan's victory over the second Overmind would have been denied, and so the plot requires the Protoss to be monumental idiots.
    There are any number of reasons they wouldn't do this at that point in time. Regardless it does not nullify her victories nor her talent nor her intelligence. She was leaving anyway.

    1- She mind-controlled Raszagal. - Well, good thing she was born with the potential and then boosted by an outside force to have psychic power comparable to a Dark Archon then, right? Otherwise she might have been forced to devise something clever to secure the support of the Dark Templar Matriarch.
    Except she DID earn that power. She unlocked her potential by assaulting the Amerigo. She earned her place among the Swarm by the end of "Overmind" I think. Maybe she didn't directly go snatch up these powers herself, but she takes actions through out the campaign to prove her worth and to earn victories for her faction.

    8- She destroyed every other force in the Sector at the same time. - Every other major force in the Sector at the same time. And the only reason that they are portrayed as any kind of threat is because most of her forces are not available. If the entire Protoss species being at risk of extinction from a scattering of unimportant Zerg in The Stand didn't clue you in, the Zerg are retconned into omnipotence in Brood War. There is no merit at all in winning if you can't lose in the first place.
    This isn't a legitimate argument in the SLIGHTEST. The Zerg have always been a threat. An overwhelming and very serious threat. At least on par with the other forces in the sector. They wipe out Tarsonis, they annihilated Aiur (at the cost of their Overmind, yes but they still annihilated Aiur and most of it's defenders). They aren't treated as omnipitent but they're treated for what they are: a powerful threat. An overwhelming force.

    Smash'n'Grab - Lost, Raynor grabs the Artifact before her

    Moebius Mission - Lost, Narud and his colleagues get away

    First Protoss Mission - Lost, Zeratul gets away with the prophecy knowledge

    Care to try again?
    Honestly, my main problem with these things is Kerrigan just doesn't feel like she's trying. In Brood War she was usually a few steps ahead of everyone (or at least SEEMED to be a few steps ahead of everyone). In WoL she just doesn't feel like she has any plan or foresight at all. She's just zerg-rushing the sector and hoping things work out. Even if it blew up in her face, it would have been nice to see her have some sort of long-term plan. A spy, a surprise attack... anything. It's just so aimless.

    Still, I don't think she necessarily loses all that often in the campaign. It just doesn't really feel like she wins much either (she doesn't have much presence except as a vague concept is what I'm getting at). And it's more an issue of the limited perspective in that instance. It's like... UED mission 6. Or 5 for that matter. The UED wins both missions, but they don't succeed in their goal. I would have liked to have seen more stuff like that in WoL and HotS. Where the ending isn't a foregone conclusion, or where your goals change as the mission's story progresses. Instead it's just "Oh no the Zerg are attacking with a weapon, destroy the weapon!' and then you destroy the weapon. Sometimes it's 'the zerg are attacking with a weapon. Set up a base, and then destroy the weapon' and then you set up a base and destroy the weapon.

    Also... the strawman villains. Sigh. Those strawman villains. If we don't fight the Dominion, the Swarm or the Tal'darim in LotV I'll be very happy. Even the Daelaam Protoss the few times you fight them feel like faceless mooks.
    Last edited by Aldrius; 05-15-2013 at 02:09 AM.


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