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Thread: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

  1. #371
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Better writing would help, but I think there's still a lot left to be desired within the actual story itself.

    That's my polite way of saying it's all fucked.
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 11-24-2014 at 01:36 PM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  2. #372

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    Better writing would help, but I think there's still a lot left to be desired within the actual story itself.

    That's my polite way of saying it's all fucked.
    Sorry you believe that because the story itself is very good; better than most hollywood nonsense.

    Some of the lines of the characters are fouled up, but mostly, the actual content of the story is very well done, considering there isn't much innovation or originality to be had in the sci-fi universe in general.

  3. #373
    DonnyZeDoof's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    Sorry you believe that because the story itself is very good; better than most hollywood nonsense.

    Some of the lines of the characters are fouled up, but mostly, the actual content of the story is very well done, considering there isn't much innovation or originality to be had in the sci-fi universe in general.
    How was the storyline very good?

    It's littered with retcons, plot holes, character inconsistencies, flawed character development, illogical plot prgression etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    Sorry you believe that because the story itself is very good; better than most hollywood nonsense.

    Some of the lines of the characters are fouled up, but mostly, the actual content of the story is very well done, considering there isn't much innovation or originality to be had in the sci-fi universe in general.
    How was the storyline very good?

    It's littered with retcons, plot holes, character inconsistencies, flawed character development, illogical plot prgression etc.

  4. #374

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    character inconsistencies, flawed character development
    What if I told you some of the best and realistic character development involves people being self-contradictory in their behavior and beliefs? Because people tend to be this way in real life. We aren't logical beings, we are emotional creatures of instinct being mediated by intelligence (well, sometimes).
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  5. #375
    DonnyZeDoof's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    What if I told you some of the best and realistic character development involves people being self-contradictory in their behavior and beliefs? Because people tend to be this way in real life. We aren't logical beings, we are emotional creatures of instinct being mediated by intelligence (well, sometimes).
    But good writing isn't supposed to be a 100% reflection of real life.

    As literary agent, Nathan Bransford, says in his blog about writing dialogue:

    http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2010...-dialogue.html

    3. Good dialogue evokes the way people actually talk in real life without actually sounding precisely like the way people talk in real life.

    Paraphrasing Elmore Leonard, good writers leave out the boring parts. This goes doubly for dialogue: it's usually best to cut to the chase rather than spending time on the pleasantries that normal people use in everyday conversation.

    In real life our conversations wander around all over the place, and a transcribed real life conversation is a meandering mess of free association and stutters. In a novel, a good conversation is focused and has a point.

    And in a novel, dialect, slang, and voice is used sparingly. Just a hint of flavor is enough. As my client Jennifer Hubbard wrote, "good dialogue sounds like conversation, but is not an exact reproduction of conversation."
    Even Alfred Hitchcock said, “Drama is life with the dull parts left out.”
    Last edited by DonnyZeDoof; 11-24-2014 at 04:47 PM.

  6. #376

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    What if I told you some of the best and realistic character development involves people being self-contradictory in their behavior and beliefs? Because people tend to be this way in real life. We aren't logical beings, we are emotional creatures of instinct being mediated by intelligence (well, sometimes).
    Um, people are inconsistent in logical, recognisable ways. While we feel like consistent people, everyone that exists is hypocritical. Writers know this, and play off it. For example, Tassadar is contradictory in that he wants to be a good guy that saves everyone, but makes the pretty dumb choice of fighting the Conclave while his planet is in danger. This isn't contradictory in another sense, as Tassadar is impulsive and quick to come to conclusions.

    And ProtossWarrior...no. Starcraft II is exactly equivalent to schlock Hollywood writing as it exists right now. Econ is correct: it has bad plotting, particularly due to all the retcons. Logic was thrown out for emotional feeling and visual achievement, which is exactly what Hollywood is into at the moment.

  7. #377

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Loch Niss Monster
    Um, people are inconsistent in logical, recognisable ways.
    D'aw, you're as adorable as Blade. :3

    I'm not defending the characterization in StarCraft, mind you, which was genuinely bad; I was making a general comment on character development.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  8. #378
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    Sorry you believe that because the story itself is very good; better than most hollywood nonsense.

    Some of the lines of the characters are fouled up, but mostly, the actual content of the story is very well done, considering there isn't much innovation or originality to be had in the sci-fi universe in general.
    We can objectively say the story is terrible. The original post is just an introduction as to why.

    And yes, Metzen deserves the blame. Deinfesting Kerrigan with the artifact was one of the biggest blunders I've seen in storytelling. It should never have been OKed. It required that Raynor suddenly forget about his promise to kill Kerrigan in BW, robbing players of any chance to get revenge against the queen bitch of the universe. The deinfestation then becomes pointless, when in 5 missions Kerrigan willingly reinfests herself, inflicting on herself the same crime that she's going to kill Mengsk for. But now she has her humanity back. She's free of Satan's influence, which makes it awkward when she destroys entire planets wholesale in HoTS, killing millions of innocent people in a petty quest for revenge against one single guy. Metzen lacked the basic foresight to notice that a decent zerg campaign where you go around destroying planets doesn't make sense with a human who's "good" again, but requires an amoral protagonist, the same thing that made the Overmind awesome in SC1. Only now it turns out the Overmind was a slave to Satan all along, didn't actually do anything of his own accord, and just had all his dialog retconned.

    So why did the artifact need to happen? What's wrong with Kerrigan being an anti-hero or logical character development? Kerrigan was going to fight Amon anyway, and we don't need this prophecy nonsense to force her to save herself either. The Queen of Blades could have easily done everything Kerrigan did in HoTS. Is killing everybody to get revenge on one guy the same thing that human Kerrigan would have done? The same person that said "I just don't think anyone deserves to have the zerg unleashed on them"? Really, when you think about it, the entire SC2 trilogy is just the literary equivalent of a giant middle finger to actual SCBW fans.
    Last edited by Gradius; 11-24-2014 at 09:17 PM.

  9. #379

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Deinfesting Kerrigan with the artifact was one of the biggest blunders I've seen in storytelling. It should never have been OKed.
    Going to play devils advocate here somewhat. I'm with you in terms of personally disliking Kerrigan's deinfestation but more in how it was executed rather than as an idea in itself. The funny thing about this (the deinfesation of Kerrigan) is that without it, WoL would be wholly a waste of time in and of itself. If the artifacts did nothing, then Tychus' storyline would've been just another random aside like the Hansen, Tosh, Horner and Zeratul arcs. I've said before that one of WoL's greatest weakness in its narrative is that it lacked an appropriate "middle". Being so bloated and randomised what with the 5 arcs mentioned being split apart all over the place was not a good way to continue from the introduction of having left Mar Sara. It's also the reason why when the ending arc (Valerian) begins it seems to "come out of nowhere" and out of joint after having experienced this incoherent "middle" part of the story.

    In WoL, if we trimmed all the fat off and had the starting and ending arcs the same, the only real important "middle" arc is Tychus' one about gathering the artifacts because it is the closest that directly links the start and end arcs. Knowing that, if we changed the end arc to have the artifacts do nothing.... well, I can hope you can start to see what I'm getting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    It required that Raynor suddenly forget about his promise to kill Kerrigan in BW, robbing players of any chance to get revenge against the queen bitch of the universe. The deinfestation then becomes pointless, when in 5 missions Kerrigan willingly reinfests herself, inflicting on herself the same crime that she's going to kill Mengsk for. But now she has her humanity back. She's free of Satan's influence, which makes it awkward when she destroys entire planets wholesale in HoTS, killing millions of innocent people in a petty quest for revenge against one single guy. Metzen lacked the basic foresight to notice that a decent zerg campaign where you go around destroying planets doesn't make sense with a human who's "good" again, but requires an amoral protagonist, the same thing that made the Overmind awesome in SC1. Only now it turns out the Overmind was a slave to Satan all along, didn't actually do anything of his own accord, and just had all his dialog retconned.
    This is a fault of HotS, not WoL. Part of the problem is that they attempted to "have it both ways" in that they wanted Kerrigan to be more distinctly human and show some more overt goodness but also to have the savagery and trappings of what it is to be Zerg. The deinfestation makes both of these things much more incompatible than before. If they wanted to focus on Kerrigan as the character, they could've easily done away with the Zerg stuff altogether, but because they had to do a Zerg campaign they had to cram that stuff back in.

    If I had to make a solution to this, I would have done a parallel story following Kerrigan still going on revenge in her human form, gradually learning how inhuman she still is after feeling how empty killing Mengsk is, how she realised all along how empty it was going to be yet done it anyway (done early to capitalise on the pandemonium that was WoL and to give weight to Raynor's actions against Mengsk) and then chooses to go back to the Zerg of her own free will seeing that because she is a monster on the inside, she might as well go look like one and be part of something more (especially so, if Raynor were to be killed off for real). The other parallel/tandem story would follow a new Zerg character or a repurposed Zagara in an equal billing protagonist role doing what he/she can against the Dominion occupation of Char and having a tough time going at it only to eventually comes across the Hybrids... Eventually Kerrigan and this new Zerg leader cross paths and seeing they have a need of each other, they join forces by having Kerrigan assimilated into the Swarm (not just infested). That way, the Zerg have something to gain and perhaps more than when she was infeted (it could also help answer the difference between infested and assimilation too) and Kerrigan finally finds her true calling is to be wholly one with the Zerg (unlike before in BW where she was using them for her own purpose - as she does again in the HotS that we got). This could also work as a sort of unconventional redemption story - unconventional in the sense that being part of the Zerg is not necessarily a bad thing in this particular case.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  10. #380

    Default Re: Gradius's HoTS Story Review

    I would have had HotS start where the Zerg are rampaging over the Terran Sector. She is the only hope.

    Code:
    Mengsk is struggling against the Zerg, which she unleashes by the end of WoL. A threat she could have made when Raynor and Valerian was carrying the Artifact with them. The very thing she wanted for herself.
    
    "Use that shit, and the Zerg will decend!"
    
    As warfield and Mengsk try to deal with the Zerg, Valerian is trying to see if Kerrigan is really back to her former self. He realizes she's not. But she does have some semblance of humanity. At least she shows she can be reasoned with as a person. There's a chance she turns murderous again though. A strong one.
    
    Raynor is torn apart for what they've had to do in this version of WoL. He wants his Kerrigan and them both in a happy ending, but shit's everywhere. 
    
    Valerian tells him, kerrigan's a failure. She can't be trusted. But they need her to pull the Zerg out of the terran sector before everything is destroyed.
    
    Raynor says to hell with Valerian. He's in denial again. 
    
    Kerrigan says she wants to help take out the Zerg. Raynor reminds her what happened in Broodwars. He's angry. He doesn't want Kerrigan to lose control again.
    
    Kerrigan concedes. They must travel to the Terran Sector to help.
    
    But as they enter Terran space, Mengsk greets them with multiple battlecruisers. Raynor isn't surprised, but lashes out against Arcturus: "People are dying, and still all he could think of is his position!"
    
    Mengsk says he don't trust him, nor Kerrigan. He wants Kerrigan dead. He still believes having Kerrigan dead will make dealing with the Zerg easier. At least that's his speech.
    
    Raynor and Sarah escape. Nova is on their tail. Kerrigan and Nova fight. Kerrigan is no match. She's weak. Kerrigan's instincts begin calling Zerg. 
    
    Valerian points it out. Raynor distracts Nova, as Kerrigan escapes.
    
    Kerrigan feels sad. She's still Zerg. How can she have called to Zerg if she's not?
    
    Zeratul arrives. She wants to die. "Kill me now!"
    
    Zeratul: "Not yet!" Face-palm power and boom.
    
    Kerrigan doesn't want this. She doesn't want to be Zerg again. But then more and more Zerg arrive. Her leviathan is here, isha has responded.
    
    Kerrigan is terrified. Zeratul explains, "The waters of Zerus will cleanse your mind. And yes. Tassadar is not dead!"
    
    Kerrigan says to shove it up his rear end. And she leaves.
    
    Back in the sector, Mengsk have Raynor hostage. "Don't listen to him darlin! Get out of here now!"
    
    Mengsk: "Look at what you've done Kerrigan! Look at all these people! They're dying. And now, Raynor will die."
    
    Sarah: "What do you want Arcturus!"
    
    Mengsk: "Surrender."
    
    Kerrigan agrees. Raynor kicks and screams no. Kerrigan: "I'm sorry Jim. This had to be done."
    
    The hyperion explodes, and Raynor is sent away via drop ship.
    
    Mengsk: "Now, Kerrigan. I told you, one day, you will slip up." Mengsk shoots, but his ship tosses over.
    
    Isha is here with the Leviathan.
    
    Sarah: "No Arcturus." And kills him.
    
    The ship is about to explode, Kerrigan gets pulled into space. Isha takes her into the leviathan. 
    
    Kerrigan wakes up. Abathur has saved her life.
    
    The swarms are rampaging still. Raynor contacts kerrigan to come back. It's over, but she refuses. She's responsible for the Zerg. She must fight them. 
    
    Raynor wants in. Kerrigan tells him no. It's too dangerous. Raynor: Just promise me one thing Sarah. You come home this time, you hear?
    
    Sarah says nothing. She's unsure what this controlling of a large brood will do to her.
    
    She begins her quest ZvZ. The longer she fights with the Zerg using Zerg, the more she is slipping back. But this time she can see it happening. Somehow, residues of Amon's influence still linger inside her. She realizes something's gone terribly wrong when:
    
    After a mission fighting the Zerg. She wakes up seeing terrans dead instead. She is losing grip.
    
    She decides to go to Zerus, and try what Zeratul suggested.
    
    When she reaches Zerus, she learns the pool will make her into something else. With the essence of the Ancients, she will be remade. 
    
    Amon's voice starts talking again. She can hear him.
    
    So she plunges into the pool, and her transformation beings. A mission where she has to fight Amon begins.
    
    She emerges a new creature, and the taint is no more. 
    
    The ancients senses her, and challenges her. She wouldn't want trouble, but Iszha can't get her. Too many Zerus creatures to fight, and they don't have that much brood to fight this.
    
    Kerrigan instead challenges the ancients. They fall one by one. Zerus is now hers. Iszha picks her up.
    
    Returning to the Terran sector, she can no longer control the broods. Even with her power. 
    
    As she tries, and repeatedly fails, Protoss arrive to get her. 
    
    Zeratul arrives to ward off the Protoss strike force, but they think Zeratul now has no right to give orders. He has abandoned his own people.
    
    Kerrigan fights with the protoss. She loses more Zerg. But she wins. Kerrigan must now subdue queens to get control of the Zerg.
    
    She succeeds.
    
    She takes all Zerg away from the Terran Sector, and meets with Raynor one last time.
    
    Raynor asks why. She said, it's the only way. She's sorry to see Raynor weeping for a murderer. That he shouldn't. That all that they were and wished they were could never be.
    
    She goes away to fight Amon.
    Last edited by GnaReffotsirk; 11-25-2014 at 01:45 AM.

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