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Thread: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

  1. #21
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    When do you ever not refuse a different opinion?

    I'm just being open minded here. I couldn't care less either way. StarCraft's story can never be interesting after you've read real science fiction so stop being a child about it.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  2. #22

    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    StarCraft's story can never be interesting after you've read real science fiction so stop being a child about it.
    So we're forgetting Vanilla and Broodwar then?

    This whole thing reeks.

  3. #23
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    Neither of which were remarkable. At least in a sense that you should be upset when it doesn't go your way. If you want real science fiction, read a real science fiction book.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  4. #24

    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    Applying "real" to anything is a cop-out and you know it. Really fucking bad pizza is still "real" pizza, and really fucking bad science-fiction is still "real" science fiction. The qualitative you're looking for is "good," and by many accounts Starcraft was good science fiction. Nigh, great science fiction. Was it original? No. Was its continuity perfect? No. Was it occasionally cheesy? Yes. But it was GOOD dammit. The story of SC2 pales in comparison, and we all know it could be so much better. Blizzard doesn't have to resort to this kind of tripe to make it that way.

  5. #25
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    Applying "real" to anything is a cop-out and you know it.
    Neither your argument nor your example has anything to do with what I'm saying. Similiar to Star Wars, it's debatible whether StarCraft is, or really has ever been, science fiction. So, when I say real, yes I mean good/great/not awful, and you're right about that, but, then again, StarCraft isn't REALLY SF anyways.

    by many accounts Starcraft was good science fiction.
    That's how you know it wasn't what we remembered. Three years ago I'd have agreed with you. Since then I've read many of the best science fiction books. I get none of the frustration of StarCraft and even more of the greatness.

    The StarCraft you used to know is dead and this was proven years ago. The best you can do now is try to learn to like the new one. Getting upset doesn't do anyone any good. For myself, I will never be able to appreciate the love story or the new character driven drivel that Chris Metzen's trying to evolve the franchise into. What interested me about StarCraft was the conflict between the races, not the conflict between the feelings of the people who should be focused on the all out battle instead of getting laid and whatever emotional bullshit will be in HotS.

    But it was GOOD dammit.
    Control yourself.

    I never said it wasn't good. I said it wasn't the masterpeice of science fiction that many (including myself) remember it to be. I was much more of a fantasy / contemporary reader when I was younger and knew nothing of the great SF sagas which have almost entirely replaced StarCraft in my heart. Not saying everythign about SC you remember is nostalgia, but I am saying that if you're going to get so tied up in the story of a SF universe, make sure its one worthy of it.

    Not saying you shouldn't be disappointed either, but you really shouldn't be upset. Especially at a rumor of the return of something we knew over a decade ago.

    Take me for example. I don't think there's anyone here who was as much of a fan of Diablo as me. I've read all the books, I put in probably 5000 hours or more in Diablo 2, I actually played the music for years after I cooled down on the grinding in my iPod in the gym. Diablo was a huge part of my life. Damn near failed my way through elementary and middle school because of it.

    Then Diablo 3 came. And it was awful. So awful, I've pretty much forgotten about it. I'm not mad about it. It's just no longer on my radar. Diablo is dead to me since obviously the new Blizzard just doesn't get what the old Blizzard North did to make it great. StarCraft still has hope but, again, not holding my breath.

    Besides, i thought you were damn close to boycotting this game a year or so ago. Why must all SCL trolls be such hypocrites.
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 03-08-2013 at 01:43 PM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  6. #26

    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    1. Of course both SC and SW are science fiction, how is that even a debate? There's a small fringe of lunatics who call them "science fantasy" because of the "force" stuff but seriously... starships and aliens.

    2. There is nothing wrong about me being angry they're shitting on one of my favorite games by having terrible writing. StarCraft, Pokemon, Halo:Combat Evolved, and LoZ: Ocarina of Time were my gateway into being a gamer and I'd just like to see them treated with some fucking respect because they meant to much to me as a youth.

    3. I was never on Spychi's boycott bandwagon. I have, however, suggested we show Blizzard that they need to step up their game, possibly by denying them our purchases. I did the same thing for Mass Effect 3 after they fucked up the ending and still haven't bought it. Big devs are under the thumb of the investors and the only way to make them pay attention is to deny them your cash.

  7. #27

    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    As fun as it is to eat popcorn and watch, I'm going to open my mouth for something other than buttery goodness:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist
    I'm just being open minded here. I couldn't care less either way. StarCraft's story can never be interesting after you've read real science fiction so stop being a child about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist
    If you want real science fiction, read a real science fiction book.
    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
    Applying "real" to anything is a cop-out and you know it.
    I'm kind of with the Squid here. I'm trying to leave SC as a specific media out of this, but T.E.'s line of thought here is iffy here to me. Firstly, "real" is a nebulous term in this context. If "real" means hard-sci-fi, I can sort of understand, but it's elitist IMO to simply say "sci-fi has to be hard or it can't be good." Additionally, the idea that "if you want (good) story, go read a book" is offputting as well. I can take other mediums being put down - everyone has their preferences, but I find it a distasteful line of thought that only books can tell "real" stories. I've seen the excuse "if you want a story, go read a book" applied too often, and not just to games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demolition Squid
    Of course both SC and SW are science fiction, how is that even a debate? There's a small fringe of lunatics who call them "science fantasy" because of the "force" stuff but seriously... starships and aliens.
    Starships and aliens don't necessarily make something sci-fi. Star Wars is space fantasy or at most, science-fantasy. If it was just the Force, I could see it as sci-fi. But SW is coupled with the premise of "let's suppose" (the basis of fantasy) rather than "what if?" (the basis of sci-fi) because it's set in a setting that has no real connection to our own. A galaxy far, far away, Milky Way/Earth never mentioned, humans are there for the conveniance of plot. Secondly, SW doesn't show any technological development. The tech level throughout the lore is the same over tens of thousands of years. This is far more fantasy-esque than sci-fi esque. Star Fox is another space fantasy genre to me because it begins with supposition (animals in a system of what could be any galaxy) with no clear link to how this came to be via our current understanding of the universe.

    SC, alternatively, remains sci-fi in my eyes, because the premise of "what if?" is still followed, from point a (Earth) to point b (the K-sector), and not science fantasy because everything approaching fantasy is still the exception rather than the rule (as opposed to, say, 40K, where the supernatural and fantastical elements are par for the course).

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
    There is nothing wrong about me being angry they're shitting on one of my favorite games by having terrible writing. StarCraft, Pokemon, Halo:Combat Evolved, and LoZ: Ocarina of Time were my gateway into being a gamer and I'd just like to see them treated with some fucking respect because they meant to much to me as a youth.
    Oh you young whippersnapper you. I was playing games as early as 1991 with Sonic and Mario. Ye young whippersnappers probably never touched a Megadrive or SNES.

    I jest, I jest. But I think it's another iffy line of thought, that "I want x treated with respect because it means a lot to me," as opposed to "you can treat y with a lack of respect because I don't care about it". I guess using some of those examples...Pokemon I moved away from after gen 2, Halo is pretty much dead to me due to 343's handling of the franchise, and The Legend of Zelda? Still strong to me - I'm playing The Wind Waker right now, and it's definately one of the best games (at least in its genre) that I've played. But after everything I've heard about Skyward Sword...well, sooner or later, a blip has to be made. Apart from those CD-I games of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
    I was never on Spychi's boycott bandwagon. I have, however, suggested we show Blizzard that they need to step up their game, possibly by denying them our purchases. I did the same thing for Mass Effect 3 after they fucked up the ending and still haven't bought it. Big devs are under the thumb of the investors and the only way to make them pay attention is to deny them your cash.
    So, you were already boycotting Bioware pre-ME3? Or did you just want to wait and see how things turn out (a practice that, after Colonial Marines, I can definately sympathize with).

    Anyway, I'm on the fence with Bioware right now. ME3 wasn't the first disapointment they gave me, but at least they fixed what they could. Unlike Sonic Chronicles...bastards...

  8. #28
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    @Hawki: Sheesh, always with the misinterpretations with you. Very draining.

    1) Real, in my context, meant exceptional. Yes, its a nebulous term, obviously, but I hardly care to waste my brainmeat on thinking of alternative words for a debate that I have very little stake in. I only bring up the argument about SC's genre because Squibb was being semantic. Somewhat of a semi-retroll.

    2) I'm not saying games can't have good stories. I'm saying that StarCraft is no longer good, whether or not it was good before. Instead of getting upset, move on. Gradius was just as disappointed as I was. You don't see either of us getting emotional. We just express our disappointment and move on. Not troll or whine for years, with the occasional fake boycott threat thrown in from time to time.

    I find it a distasteful line of thought that only books can tell "real" stories
    3) Well, you are a fanfic writer who mostly reads books set in games universes, and I know you look for things to get offended about (Hitler jokes ) but this is ridiculous. Never said there was anything wrong with other forms of media telling stories. It's just that they so happen to not be as good 99% of the time. I'm sure there's some obscure Sci Fi games with great background stories (Alpha Centauri comes to mind) and some I've never heard of, but StarCraft is not one of them and never has been, as much as I love SC/BW.

    Just offering an alternative. Plus, whining for years and years on end annoys me. Was fine with it as release, hell I even joined in, but, now, seriously, Squibb, let it go. StarCraft is no longer going to blow your mind with its story. You're older and the story has gotten crappier. Move on to something else. If I can lose the entirety of Diablo III and not bat an eye, you can lose portions of StarCraft's story and keep it together like a man.

    4) For the rest of your post, I swear you can wall of text about ANYTHING.

    5) Also, please, for the love of God people, do not phrase your arguments with varying ways of saying, "I'm offended." My God that just makes it almost unbearable not to poke you for several weeks until you leave the forum, and I really don't want to do that because this forum is getting back to being active and there's no reason for such lawlessness anymore.


    PS: I rarely read "hard sci fi" so I have no clue where you got that from. Stop nit picking words and go with the overall context which is easy to see.
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 03-08-2013 at 04:07 PM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  9. #29

    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawki View Post
    So, you were already boycotting Bioware pre-ME3? Or did you just want to wait and see how things turn out (a practice that, after Colonial Marines, I can definately sympathize with).

    Anyway, I'm on the fence with Bioware right now. ME3 wasn't the first disapointment they gave me, but at least they fixed what they could. Unlike Sonic Chronicles...bastards...
    Dragon Age 2 was the reason I didn't buy ME3 right away, and I was immediately drawn to the Indoctrination Theory group because it, you know, was the only possible explanation for why DA2 was terrible (fucking EA puttin on pressure) and ME3's ending left obvious room for a final non-dream DLC.

  10. #30
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: (Spoilers) Hes' back!

    Has there ever been a more entitled group of people than gamers? Gamers look for any reason to justify pirating a game. Doesn't matter how good the game is, if there's something about they don't like, BOYCOTT THE DAMN THING!!! So self-defeating since it's only going to result in more of what you're protesting against. Silly children.

    Since I know someone here is going to get offended real quick, I'll put this here, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR ON THIS FORUM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

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