Karune on Building placement

[ManjiSanji]

... Right... Because that wont be 10 times more distracting than building rotation...

Sarcasm isn't necessary, but no I don't think it would be. It's easily ignored, can only take a second, can be built in to the unit's build time, and doesn't change the way the unit actually looks at a glance (which building rotation would).

[Santrega]

Then you should make them come out in another direction. You have control of it; that's all you need.

So, what you are telling me is, even though I want a unit to go north, and north will get him stuck coming out the back of a building, I should have to send him south just so he doesn't get stuck? Because thats better than actually having control over where the unit comes out, compared to the unit "automatically" coming out based on a rally point selection?

My rally point choice shouldn't make the unit come out in different spots, I should be the one to make my unit come out in different spots.

[DemolitionSquid]

So, what you are telling me is, even though I want a unit to go north, and north will get him stuck coming out the back of a building, I should have to send him south just so he doesn't get stuck? Because thats better than actually having control over where the unit comes out, compared to the unit "automatically" coming out based on a rally point selection?

My rally point choice shouldn't make the unit come out in different spots, I should be the one to make my unit come out in different spots.

Wtf?

You decide which side the unit comes out on using the rally point. And I'm pretty sure I've seen that you can set multiple paths on any movement command using the shift button. So you can easily tell a Marine to come out the right of your Barracks, then go up, then left to avoid obstacles. You HAVE complete control of your units.

Edit: 2:08-2:12 - multiple movement rally paths for SCV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSwqDPNS7dM

[Santrega]

Wtf?

You decide which side the unit comes out on using the rally point. And I'm pretty sure I've seen that you can set multiple paths on any movement command using the shift button. So you can easily tell a Marine to come out the right of your Barracks, then go up, then left to avoid obstacles. You HAVE complete control of your units.

Multiple paths on the rally point? If this is the case, it's at least an improvement that can help the situation. I still don't believe its easier than simply placing a building in the direction you want units to come out when its first built.

This only makes sense if you can shift+click to set waypoints on a rally-point. If you can't, it doesn't really help anything.

[DemolitionSquid]

I still don't believe its easier than simply placing a building in the direction you want units to come out when its first built.

Than you're wrong. Setting a rally point is:

a) easier than rotating a building, because there's no space constraints (ie. you can rally to anywhere)

b) less confusing (ie. no need to memorize multiple view angles for all buildings)

[Nicol Bolas]

I still don't believe its easier than simply placing a building in the direction you want units to come out when its first built.

Except that it is. It uses what's already there, rather than adding a new mechanic. That's pretty much the definition of "easier".

[Santrega]

Than you're wrong. Setting a rally point is:

a) easier than rotating a building, because there's no space constraints (ie. you can rally to anywhere)

b) less confusing (ie. no need to memorize multiple view angles for all buildings)

lol DS, for someone who thinks he's pretty smart, its amazing that you don't think you can tell the difference between buildings because they are turned, while I believe I'd have no trouble at all. I don't think you have to memorize a thing, if you can't remember placing a building somewhere, you probably shouldn't be playing RTS games in the first place.

PS: Rotating a building requires simply making the building point to the outside of a group of buildings, while waypointing rally points takes more thought, and placement to make the units go where you want them to end up.

Space constraints is relevant in building placement regardless, and really can't be used as a reason why building rotation is bad.

[SpiderBrigade]

Santrega, your whole argument is based on this weird starting assumption under which units "should" come out from one given point on the building. Other than the fact that this is the way it was in SC/BW, why do you think that model is superior? From my perspective, allowing units to come out wherever you tell them to is vastly superior. For instance, you save movement time based on the unit not having to go around the building - and this applies THROUGHOUT THE GAME even if you change where you want the units to go when they come out. You can't do that with your version. Other than your rare "unit would get stuck" scenario, what are the advantages of having a fixed unit spawn point?

And no, no one is going to "have trouble" recognizing rotated buildings. But Blizzard has said on innumerable occasions that they give a lot of thought to outlines and profiles. They want every situation to be readable as quickly and easily as possible. Anything that interferes with that had better have some damn huge usefulness...building rotation really doesn't have much.

That said, I'm not actually opposed to building rotation (at least, orthogonal rotation - full 360-degree flexibility would be stupid) but all of your reasoning for including it is pretty weak right now.

[DemolitionSquid]

lol DS, for someone who thinks he's pretty smart, its amazing that you don't think you can tell the difference between buildings because they are turned, while I believe I'd have no trouble at all. I don't think you have to memorize a thing, if you can't remember placing a building somewhere, you probably shouldn't be playing RTS games in the first place.

PS: Rotating a building requires simply making the building point to the outside of a group of buildings, while waypointing rally points takes more thought, and placement to make the units go where you want them to end up.

Space constraints is relevant in building placement regardless, and really can't be used as a reason why building rotation is bad.

A) The issue is for both you AND the enemy recognizing the buildings quickly.

B) Many buildings aren't 2x2 square, and instead have 3x2 area. Thus making space a viable concern.

So seriously, stop trolling. I'm sick of you arguing stupid points.

[Santrega]

A) The issue is for both you AND the enemy recognizing the buildings quickly.

B) Many buildings aren't 2x2 square, and instead have 3x2 area. Thus making space a viable concern.

So seriously, stop trolling. I'm sick of you arguing stupid points.

DS, the only one acting like a troll here is you, in the way you attack people for having an opinion which differs from your own. Buildings are the same size whether they are rotated or not, and as SB has also said, a rotated building is not going to be hard to differentiate from other buildings.

Maybe my reasoning for wanting it is weak, but the arguments against it are not stronger. The whole space issue is ridiculous in terms of being a relevant reason to why rotation shouldn't be possible, and compares to trying to make the argument that map size, terrain that you can't build on, and in-game weather are reasons to why building rotation is a bad idea. DS is simply reaching for a reason to why its bad because he doesn't like it.