Are Reapers too much of a niche unit?

[DemolitionSquid]

you guys care and talk too much about gameplay. we didn't care about sc1 gameplay but it was great when it came out.

i believe in blizzard on handling balance and gameplay functions. What i care about is single player and coolness and awesomeness of units lore, graphics, cinematics, animation, etc. sorry, but im annoyed with post and threads about gameplay. You guys are like taking it as a career.

and zerg needs a complete revamp they are just like the zerg in sc1. The way they look and play. zergling, ultralisk, mutualisk, hydralisk, lurker, and broodlord which is just a gruadian. damn.

LOL.

"You guys need to stop talking about gameplay. And now here are my Zerg gameplay suggestions..."

Phail.

[Norfindel]

Your test has a ridiculously obvious flaw. The marines that shot the mines, WEREN'T being shot at by the enemy marines, in which case it's completely randomized priority. If your marines were shooting the mines, and then they were engaged by enemy targets, they'd immediately switch their target to return fire. Do your test properly.

Set the same example, except this time make it a defiler (because the mines just explode), then have your marines shoot, some will shoot the defilers, the marines getting shot at will return fire. When those marines die and the enemy marines engage your marines shooting at the defiler, then those marines will switch their target to return fire.

Your test doesn't prove anything.

Additionally, there's a zero percent chance that units in bunkers (or any other offensive unit/building) will fire upon mines when they're already engaged, which is going to be the case 100% of the time for players who want to guarantee that their mines explode. Why do you think those roaches kept firing on the Reapers in BR2 instead of auto-targeting the mines?

The test is perfect. The brown Marines were bathed in red Marine fire even before the Mines appeared.

[Pandonetho]

I'm sorry, but you can't bathe 18 marines in fire with only 6 enemy marines.

[Norfindel]

I'm sorry, but you can't bathe 18 marines in fire with only 6 enemy marines.

Oh, i see what you mean. But doesn't make any difference.
When the map starts, the red marines and mines appear at the same time.
Brown marines just attack whatever is near.
When the Mines die, everyone attack the red marines.
Then, when the mines appear again, they ignore them (already engaged against the red marines).
When the mines appear just another time, if you attack-move, the brown marines closer to the mines targets them.

Your suggestion of all red marines attacking all brown marines cannot be tested, because the first line of marines is all that is going to be attacked, because units in SC shoot at the closest enemy.

Also, take a look:

Zealot Rush vs. Marine Rush
As is typical in most games, the first few minutes of the game will most likely involve rushes. The Protoss Zealots can easily overpower Terran Marines (they can take two Marines for every one Zealot) but with the cost and build time difference between the two units, Zealots have to be wary of being vastly outnumbered. When engaging, try and avoid group selecting all of your Zealots and commanding to attack a single Marine since that will most likely result in your Zealots wandering around, trying to circle around each other to reach the target while the other enemy Marines get their free hits in from a distance. Instead, make ample use of the Attack-Move command to have your Zealots quickly attack the nearest enemy Marine.

Do the Auto Turrets built by the Nomad attack randomly like the bunkers in the original StarCraft or will the player be able to choose the target similar to the Missile Tower?

Auto Turrets can be controlled by the player as if it were a stationary unit. You can both group them and focus fire with them. When they are not given an order, they will fire at the nearest enemy within range.

Another way to increase the life span of your Arbiters is to make generous use of Hallucination with High Templars. By creating decoy Arbiters, you can easily confuse your enemy as they try and discern which Arbiter is actually creating the cloak field. The hesitation it causes can give your units time to wreck havoc within the cloak field and increase the overall effectiveness of your force. However, don't waste this advantage by leaving your real Arbiters in front of the decoys during an attack, since all units (unless commanded to do otherwise) auto-acquire the nearest enemy unit for attack, and if they cannot detect the units beneath the cloak field, they will target the Arbiters first.

[Pandonetho]

You're not getting the point here. The point is that defensive structures cannot be told to attack anything and then have them attack the mines, because a bunker is a unit itself so to speak. When Reapers are shooting the bunker, the marines inside are going to shoot the Reaper, not the mines.

[Norfindel]

You're not getting the point here. The point is that defensive structures cannot be told to attack anything and then have them attack the mines, because a bunker is a unit itself so to speak. When Reapers are shooting the bunker, the marines inside are going to shoot the Reaper, not the mines.

That depends on who is closer, at least on SC1.

Take i look, i realized that by putting a lonely Marine, it would be shot all the time, so just deleted the others. This is what happends from top to bottom:
1- Brown marine ignoring the mines.
2- Mines explode on marine.
3- More mines appear, they're ignored (cursor ready to attack-move)
4- After attack-move, the marine acquires the closest target (one of the mines). It continues to shoot the closest mine, until it's destroyed, then turns against the marines, when the mines burrow.
It seems like an uburrowed mine is a threat with attack 125, and is managed like an active attack, which makes sense. If you're inside a trench, and a grenade lands there, it's advisable to jump out of there, even if there's a possibility of being shot. It's better than waiting for the grenade to explode, which is assured to kill you.

So, what would make the most sense, is that a D8 charge is managed like a unit with attack 30 (+30 vs Armored) that is actively attacking the AoE as long as the timer is active.


Note: the marines have 4000 HP in this map.

[Pandonetho]

Ah I stand corrected then.

[unentschieden]

The targeting algoritm isn´t all that important especially since the one in SC2 will most likely be more refined than "target the closest one". If D-8´s are useless against static defense they either are supposed to or get a patch.
Reapers have the unique nice of being ground harrass. They are the only option that avoid AA. If Hellions could slip by the ground access to the base it wouldn´t be harrass, at least midgame. D-8 charges also provide flanking opportunities during "real" fights.

[Norfindel]

The targeting algoritm isn´t all that important especially since the one in SC2 will most likely be more refined than "target the closest one". If D-8´s are useless against static defense they either are supposed to or get a patch.
Reapers have the unique nice of being ground harrass. They are the only option that avoid AA. If Hellions could slip by the ground access to the base it wouldn´t be harrass, at least midgame. D-8 charges also provide flanking opportunities during "real" fights.

They don't need to be useless just because of that, you still would need to react quickly (well, not that quickly) to avoid the damage.

The problem i see with the D8 Charges, is that they put a timed, AoE, instant-damage bomb in a fairly cheap and massable unit that can jump cliffs without any spotter. Either the damage is going to suck, or something would need to be tweaked to avoid cheesy situations.

In the case of the Spider Mines, they dealed a lot of damage, but were limited to 3 per Vulture, and the deploying process was very slow.

That's why i had always praised Psi Storm. The damage is brutal, but at least the enemy can dodge some damage, and the caster can damage his own units. Oh, and the caster is costly (as any caster should be) and vulnerable.


.

[electricmole]

LOL.

"You guys need to stop talking about gameplay. And now here are my Zerg gameplay suggestions..."

Phail.

No its more like here are my new zerg units suggestion for a fresher more exciting new zerg in sc2.