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Thread: The Mule's Hidden Cost

  1. #11
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: The Mule's Hidden Cost

    Squibb is so good he can comment on balance without ever playing the game (past tier 1).
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 02-09-2013 at 01:01 AM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  2. #12

    Default Re: The Mule's Hidden Cost

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    Seriously? I know you were around I wrote a several page essay a few years ago on how completely unbalanced the Dark Pylon and Proton Charge were.
    So balance it. Or balance Mules.
    Proton charge gave Probes the ability to carry more minerals per trip IIRC. Which basically turned them into a mule, which is stupid. What I suggested is different, in that it would give all probes a movement speed increase instead.
    I should not see a Terran's economy at +1000 over mine with equal workers. How is that even fair?

    I never read that post. But how can you agree to one "I need resources" button over an other?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    Squibb is so good he can comment on balance without ever playing the game (past tier 1).
    Ha!

    And to go further on a possible Zerg equivalent; giving the queen the ability to connect an extractor to the hatchery via a tentacle, or special creep to supplement gas income, I feel would lower the dependencies on needing extra expansions. Zerg could actually survive off of 2 bases.
    KCCO

  3. #13

    Default Re: The Mule's Hidden Cost

    Without going into too much detail, cause I just woke up so I'm feeling meh, the basic problem with Photon Charge is variability - the same problem that effects the Carrier. When you cast Mule, you get exactly 1. You know how long it'll live unless someone else kills it. You know exactly how many minerals you'll get from it and the rate you'll get them at. There are no internal variables. Similarly, when you cast Spawn Larva, you know exactly how many Larva will be produced in exactly the same amount of time, every time. Again, no internal variables. The way Photon Charge operated, however, was as an area-of-effect ability. Just like other AoE abilities, it could hit many Probes, or no Probes. At the beginning of the game, there would be less Probes mining, so the benefit of Photon Charge was small. Later on in the game, when the mineral fields were saturated, Photon Charge would have given a much bigger benefit as it affected more Probes. The longer the game went on, and the more Probes that survived, the more powerful Photon Charge would be come. It, unlike Mules and Spawn Larva, had that inherently unbalanced internal variable to its mechanic. The only way to make Photon Charge balanced would be a direct 1-1 energy/Probe correlation. 5 or 10 Energy to Boost 1 Probe's mining or speed for exactly X seconds, repeated multiple times to target each Probe, with no fluctuation. That way, the only variable would be the same as a Mule or Spawn Larva - death of the Probe/Mule/Larva from the opponent.

  4. #14

    Default Re: The Mule's Hidden Cost

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    the basic problem with Photon Charge is variability - .
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    The only way to make Photon Charge balanced would be a direct 1-1 energy/Probe correlation. 5 or 10 Energy to Boost 1 Probe's mining or speed for exactly X seconds, repeated multiple times to target each Probe, with no fluctuation.
    I don't think anyone has time to click individual probes. Especially when dealing with multiple bases.
    How about making Photon Charge an activated ability, that would then emit an AOE around it for the increased mining or speed, but have each Probe under its influence drain the dark pylon's energy. Say, something like 1 energy/sec for each probe receiving its benefits.
    A half mining base would essentially receive half the resources compared to a full mining one, but would last twice as long. A optimal saturation (24/24) at 1 energy/sec would last for 4 seconds. So a player may decide to offset his placement to only effect half the probes.
    The Pylon would have to be placed in a somewhat predictable spot, and could be sniped if an enemy wanted to (same as a Mule).
    The rate of energy renewal is constant, and can be predicted.
    KCCO

  5. #15

    Default Re: The Mule's Hidden Cost

    I can't see your solution working. The benefit of your idea you perceive is tradeoff. 1E/1S/1P leading to 4 seconds of mining time on a fully saturated base, if the Dark Pylon had 200 energy, would barely be enough for one full round of mining if it increased movement speed but not mining speed. This translates equally to any Probe/Time equation (24/4, 12/8, 6/16, etc.) ensuring the same amount of minerals gathered over the duration of the ability. However, it results in wildly differing income rates for each equation, which is contrary to the known static income boost given by the Mule. Additionally, if the Photon Charge AoE was centered on the Dark Pylon as you suggest, and the player wanted to only effect half his Probes, he'd then have to micro half his Probes away from the AoE zone, losing mining time on those Probes, which would slightly counteract the gain of the boosted Probes.

    Simply put, AoE is not an acceptable delivery method for an income boosting ability in any form.

  6. #16
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: The Mule's Hidden Cost

    Zerg could actually survive off of 2 bases.
    God damn Blasphemer!



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

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