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Thread: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

  1. #61

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    These aren't subjective opinions. Some things are facts. Sound effects are missing. Audio is distorted. Bodies are weightless. Choreography is nonexistent. These aren't subjective opinions. If you look at a glass and I see milk in it, saying that there's no milk or their is milk isn't subjectivity; it's either factually correct or factually incorrect. Some things about my post are subjective, yes, but the vast majority of the points I outlined are facts about the cinematic that casuals like yourself have overlooked. So I reiterate: I'm not going to tell you what to like. I can only speak for myself when I say that the cinematic was nothing more than another disappointment. But it is of objectively-poor quality, like Conan, Dark/Demon's Souls, and most other games released recently. If any of these games had developers that actually gave a fuck about what they were producing, they wouldn't release shoddy material like this as a final product.

  2. #62
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    It succeeded in the most important area of all: entertainment. It's a badass cinematic that is fun to watch. You remember fun, right?



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  3. #63

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    It succeeded in the most important area of all: entertainment. It's a badass cinematic that is fun to watch. You remember fun, right?
    Naw, he's one of those guys who goes harumph while wearing a monocle and smoking a cigerette.

    And Pr0, you do make one or two reasonable points about lack of sound effects, and the marines being thrown around. However, the vast bulk of your arguments are indeed subjective, with one or two being outright dishonest. (The siege tanks do plenty, and just because you didn't like the dialogue and voice acting only means you didn't like it. Tough shit, many people probably did). The problem is that you have the arrogance to believe that anyone who says it is good must be a paid shill.

    Turalyon doesn't like WOL either, but he is far less pompous than you are.

  4. #64

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    No, you're either a casual or a paid shill. If you're the latter, you don't genuinely like it.

    It wasn't fun for me. It wasn't entertaining for me. Neither was the sickening devotion paid by the casuals and the shills.

  5. #65

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    I'm going to have to agree with the majority here. Pr0, I hear you, there are things that bothered me while watching it. I could not stand Trish's voice nor the writing for it. I still think it was a dumb move to replace Glynnis especially when you hear their voices back to back during the 'temple' cinematic as well as the 'Abandonment' cinematic. And the writing certainly is not helping with her, it just comes off over the top, cliched and unnatural. Overall, I found the cinematic to be 'meh'

    BUT, I will say it is a a beautiful looking spectacle and really you need to calm down and restructure your arguments. Take out the emotions. I know that's cost me, TheEconomist can testify to that, and it doesn't help your argument regardless.

    But Demosquid nailed it on the head. I love that movie xD

  6. #66

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Pr0nogo View Post
    No, you're either a casual or a paid shill. If you're the latter, you don't genuinely like it.

    It wasn't fun for me. It wasn't entertaining for me. Neither was the sickening devotion paid by the casuals and the shills.
    "It wasn't fun FOR ME. It wasn't entertaining FOR ME. So I will objectively speak how this is bad cinematic"

    Your posts are comedy gold.
    "Living for the Swarm!"

  7. #67
    Romla's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    I like Gradius' critic posts because I agree with him on many points (wanted to write because he is right most of the time, but that would be subjective even though I think he is). I also like the game - from the story standpoint not so much as I like the original + Brood War, but I can ignore the problems to some extent and enjoy the game. But this Pr0nogo comment just seems to me like speech of some priest whose religion is HATE EVERYTHING WHAT THEY'VE DONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION. Yes, the cinematic has some problems, some are even very big (the battlecruiser...), but still I think it was very good cinematic. At last we saw some big battle in Starcraft universe which didn't happen in WoL's cinematics and I am happy for that.

    ZASZ to Kerrigan: "You dare threaten a Cerebrate? You will be the doom of us all!"
    ARTANIS to Kerrigan: "Savor this victory, Kerrigan! For the Protoss will never forget your treachery. We shall be watching you."
    RAYNOR to Kerrigan: "It may not be tomorrow, darlin'. It may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured: I'm the man who's going to kill you some day. I'll be seein' you."

  8. #68

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    A large book falls from the sky, tumbling down until a large crack is heard as it collides with the ground. It opens, pages shifting until finally the ultimate and lost art erupts forth from it's upturned dialect. ... the wall of text has arrived, complete with spoiler tag..

    Hidden Content:
    Pr0nogo, I love people like you good sir. You attempt to hide your opinions in the guise of "facts". You should take a class from Demosquid, he does it with MUCH more skill than you have shown so far, sir. The difference is that half the time Demo is doing it, he knows what he's saying is not a fact... I fear you may ACTUALLY believe what you say is. (Demo, that's acknowledgement and a compliment, I hope you take it that way)

    Before we go on, the points are sorted in a way that helps show why many people in this forum have difficulties discussing things with you. What you are claiming is fact.. is actually a singular fact surrounded by opinion.

    First, let's look at the highlights. The legend is as follows:
    - Highlighted in red are opinionated descriptors (be them general, adverbs or adjectives) that directly derive from your perception. This puts them as influenced by your direct opinion.
    - The points in sky blue are are completely and utterly irrelevant. ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by Pr0nogo View Post
    Let's sum up the cinematic.

    -Cheesy, uninspired, useless one liners
    -Bad voice acting
    -Wilhelm scream
    -Michael Bay explosions
    -Marine being crushed by an Ultralisk which is part of the main army that hasn't arrived at the Terran line which is where the Marine died
    -Marines being tossed around like weightless sacks (which, in animation's terms, they are) by Zerglings, without any sound effects
    -General lack of choreography or meaningful placement of people, creatures, and events
    -Masses of Marines and Siege Tanks doing nothing, utter lack of Marauders, and an army composition on both ends that makes no sense from either a story or gameplay standpoint
    -Complete lack of tactics on either side, i.e. both armies are controlled by a-moving grandmasters bronze players
    -Distorted music and sounds, even on the highest available quality (you can only blame so much on YouTube; plenty of other trailers have audio that is far higher quality)
    -A general lack of soundwork, coupled with the large amount of random cuts, give a sense of rushed production
    -Terrible, terrible explosion effect that translates to the end of the cinematic (not to mention the Battlecruiser was half the size of Korhal City, but looking at the Bucephalus' stats, I'm not surprised)
    -A grand deuce to end it all: the whole thing was a dream/vision/psychic hernia and Kerrigan has yet to deliver her cheesy one-liners to actual people (who should just laugh at her retardation at this point)
    Well gee, that's a lot of opinion I see in there. I even see that you attempted to use compliments, such as Micheal Bay explosions, as insults. What's odd about this... Micheal Bay may have mixed critism for his directing... but almost universally his visual effects and "action explosions" in his movies is what's applauded... Your insulting Blizzard's use of explosions which resemble the one thing the man does right? But I digress...

    A lot of your bulletlist looks very pethetic when the opinions are taken out of it. Much of your notes regarding eSport strategy has nothing to do realistically with the storyline, I don't see marines taking two steps, turning around, shooting and taking two steps to shoot again. I don't see Ultralisks burrowing into the ground in less than a second with no ground displacement. I see a swarm of instinctive zerg in a dream sequence swarming. I see Humans in a dream being destroyed. I see incredible choreography from zerg down to their leg placement on the ground and bounding trejectory of their bodies through the air. I see idiot marines overcome. I see no StarShip Trooper over the top acting in this. I see Zerg massacreing. I see a dream. I see a teaser of passionate Blizzard employees pouring their heart out over something that "looks cool and epic".

    And yes, I see a rediculous battlecruiser create one of the most rediculous explosions ever created. But even then, I use this thing called suspension of belief.

    It's not like we're watching this cut scene....



    I'm not going to tell you what to like. I can only speak for myself when I say that the cinematic was nothing but yet another predictable disappointment in a chain of predictable disappointments. I'm not surprised that it is objectively of poor quality. I'm not surprised that casuals are buying into the hype or that shills are being paid to write raving (positive) reviews over it. I am somewhat surprised that you are all praising a cinematic that is of such a low echelon, especially compared to its contemporaries. SCII is a game that's so out of date, it's trumped only by Diablo III. How you can respect a game developer who has no respect for its work is beyond me.
    While I know you weren't attempting to use facts in this paragraph, just sharing your opinion, it's amazing how different the tone of the key phrases you attempt to make factual are heavily laiden with opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pr0nogo View Post
    These aren't subjective opinions. Some things are facts.
    You are correct, some of the things you bring up are facts. Unfortunately, it's practically all the points you make that you don't bring light to.. But even if I agree with this statement, the first portion's factual basis allows me to prove it wrong. Normally I don't like to state something is right or wrong, especially when it's opinion... but the MAIN IDEA of the posts you place in this thread is "I don't like this cinematic and these are my explained reason I hold this opinion" is a subjective opinion by damn near direct definition.

    Sound effects are missing. Audio is distorted.
    Ok, about this...

    Audio focus is a tool that is used by developers to maintain attention onto the main ideas of a work of animation. In this case, it could have been decided that the screams would be distracting from the speech being given in the foreground. It happens all the time in animations and has been since the conception of CG cutscenes and movies. Just because I play an RPG with a child standing in a classroom doesn't mean I have to hear the waggle of the ceiling fan or the thumping of the ac unit. It's a design decision to include or disclude these audio peices. They would provide distractions from the content in the room. Audio works that way... Here's a great example of an animation that is "missing" a lot of audio. Was it a poor job or design decision?



    Secondly, I'm wondering if the distorted audio is a problem with your computer. You actually inspired me to put Transformers in my computer, go to the scene with the big micheal bay explosions and listen to them in my solid quality sound system. Then afterwards turn on the cinematic and I heard no distortion whatsoever at the highest quality of the cinematic. I also asked two other people on a skype call if they heard the distortion, they both said they didn't hear it in headphones...

    Bodies are weightless. Choreography is nonexistent. These aren't subjective opinions.
    Um... I have a few points. The most obvious one is "You go out and do better!".

    Bodies aren't weightless, I see tons of solid physics in the shots. Do you agree with them? Nope, But I see weight very much, especially in the landing of the Viking, The bounding of the Zerglings, the recoil of the Seige Tank supports, the squish of a marine underneath the massive foot of a real scale ultralisk (not that silly scale of the one in the game. I don't see marines pointing guns and suddenly "woah! No weight or whatnot" They don't fly into the sunset...

    Choreography is completely existant. The lack of movement can also be choreography. The majority of the great choreography is in the zerg movements. The above mentioned things. Every time a unit moves on the screen, it's choreographed over months of work. That one zergling that you saw tilt slightly to correct the direction of the zergling bound? That's choreography. The turn of a Seige tank turret... The lift of a Gauss Rifle, the stupid passion of a futile Viking... All movement, all planned, all story boarded, all worked on by teams for months, all constantly scrapped and rebuilt... all choreographed.

    Do you like the choreography? Nope, you've made that point clear.

    If you look at a glass and I see milk in it, saying that there's no milk or their is milk isn't subjectivity; it's either factually correct or factually incorrect.
    This can definitely be subjective. Facts by definition are subjective. The world is flat is a common fact that became quickly subjective. Time Travel is not possible is a fact, until an expiriment 4 years ago when a laser existed before it was created. Artificial limbs were subjective, until medical advances came forward. Milk can be subjective... if you realize that it's actually bull semen in the cup and it looked like milk from a distance. But even if it IS milk, walking up to a spanish individually and telling them that there is milk in the glass, and they look at you and say that there is "leche" there, that can be subjective.

    I think I'll leave this one in the hands of the Inigo Montoya:



    Let's hit this on a previous angle... you saying there is no choreography in this animation (which by the way, by definition, has movement in it) and utilizing the MOST GENERAL definition for Choreography as: "the planning and coordination of activities for an event, especially one to be held in public." (All the others involve dancing as a general definition) or Animation Specific Definition of: "A set of instructions that dictate scripted or semi-scripted behaviour for NPCs, which may include interactions with the world in general."

    In other words, that glass you see "milk" in would represent no choreography... There is no milk in the glass, which means that there is choreography BY DEFINITION OF THE TERM.

    [Maybe you should rewatch the Inigo Montoya video above at this point... regarding "Choreography"]

    However, if we take the fact of how you are using the term of Choreography, as a lack of acceptable movements, this derives the idea that the movements are "acceptable by YOUR standards", which is a subjective opinion.

    Some things about my post are subjective, yes, but the vast majority of the points I outlined are facts ...
    Incorrect per above notation of your post. See the red.

    .. about the cinematic that casuals like yourself have overlooked.
    What gives you the superior situation to feel that you are not casual, and these people are? Casualness by definition has no place in a conversation regarding an opinion of a cinematic. Does this imply that you aren't a casual observer of animation? Do you have qualities that mark you a person of expertise on the material? Do you have any qualifications you can present that may suggest that you have a higher level of understanding of a project such as this... than.. let's say me? Or the person you're referencing?

    So I reiterate: I'm not going to tell you what to like. I can only speak for myself when I say that the cinematic was nothing more than another disappointment. But it is of objectively-poor quality, like Conan, Dark/Demon's Souls, and most other games released recently. If any of these games had developers that actually gave a fuck about what they were producing, they wouldn't release shoddy material like this as a final product.
    What dissapoints me most about your posts... is that you imply that these individuals who have made it their life long love to create an animation of this nature... whether it's acceptable or not to you... you are judging their passion on your own.

    Anyone who has ANY experience with animation, and the majority of people who don't, respect the work it took to make this animation. Share your opinion regarding the aspects of the animation all you want, but I highly advise you to avoid direct slander of the intent or passion of the staff members of Blizzard Entertainment. We have infractions regarding disrespect of those working at Blizzard, and I feel ashamed of this community every time I have to drop the hammer regarding it.
    TL;DR: Pr0nogo uses subjective opinions and calls them facts.

    In response to the animation itself. I enjoyed it overall for what it was for. Honestly, I didn't see any major fault that jumped out at me and enjoyed how it ended. Good transition. It's nothing I'm going to write home about, but it's better than a random rig in space getting blown up by the Protoss Laser Beam that's never used in the game while one of the bean headed humans burst into molecules of bubbly goodness... Starting with an epic intro like this is fine... so long as they don't have a Mengsk commentary added to it on ship date.

    That would annoy me.. *grins*

    (For those who don't get the reference, it still has class after all this time man. *bobs head with music*)
    Last edited by Gifted; 01-25-2013 at 07:00 AM.
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  9. #69

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    I dunno, guys... this just feels like a case of accentuating the negatives; i.e. focusing on all the bads while glossing over all the good to deliberately deliver a negative slant on a piece of critique. Which is pretty much par the course of criticism. Especially internet criticism. I know I certainly occasionally fall into it every now and again.

    It's much easier to nitpick and point at the things someone has done wrong. All one needs to do is take any one aspect - even stuff done well - split enough hairs and you'll eventually find something imperfect to comment about. Far more difficult is to be positive, single out things that a piece of work has done well, and to comment on it for others to judge and critique. As such, it's also much more comfortable, safe and 'cool-looking' to bash a piece of work than to compliment it. The latter opens one to mockery by those who disagree. Meanwhile, as the former, you get to be the mocker. Plus, you get to come across as someone with discerning tastes and it's easy to dismiss those who disagree as uncultured philistines.
    Last edited by mr. peasant; 01-25-2013 at 06:58 AM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: January 17 Heart of the Swarm Press Event

    True enough Mr. Peasant. Btw, nice to see you again sir!
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