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Thread: Creative Development Q&A 7

  1. #21

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    Point to the post where I said it was an authorised product. Only then do you get to write in caps.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    It isn't canon if it isn't authorised. You don't get to bring your 'personal level' argument in when we're discussing a pretty standardised model of determining canon.

    Hint: the company usually AUTHORISES IT AND SAYS "THIS SHIT'S CANON, YOU GUYS!"

  3. #23

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    I know that. It's why the only time I brought Stellar Forces into this thread when I was having a go at the protoss in general. Because it's unauthorized, I can't use it as part of an argument when actually having an argument, nor can I use personal level canon as an argument in the same way. The only time I mentioned personal canon was a mention as to why I was including Stellar Forces on the list.

    But anyway, this has gone OT.
    Last edited by Hawki; 12-05-2012 at 02:45 AM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    You must have made the rookie mistake of using "human" logic by which to judge her actions. It happens to the best of us.
    Heh, and here I thought I was judging Blizz's actions (in writing/making Selendis seem like a fool) and not Selendis herself. I understand the confusion though given that Selendis can't really make decisions given she's a fictional character and all...
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    Don't forget that prophecy governs all their actions and as such they can't make any free-willed thoughts or actions, only ones that they were prophesied to do.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    Given the actual text of the prophecy

    "In the fullness of time
    The cycle shall draw to its end.
    The xel'naga, who forged the stars,
    Will transcend their creation....
    Yet, the Fallen One shall remain,
    Destined to cover the Void in shadow...
    Before the stars wake from their
    Celestial courses,
    He shall break the cycle of the gods,
    Devouring all light and hope.

    It begins with the Great Hungerer.
    It ends in utter darkness."

    the prophecy is actually saying "the dark voice will be triumphant and you are all totally fucked." If anything, Kerrigan's infestation was to keep the prophecy from coming true. How is that the heroes making only actions that they "were prophesied to do"? If anything the heroes are displaying the ultimate free willed thought and actions by saying "fuck the prophecy, we're going to triumph regardless of what it says." If anything, the heroes are doing the ultimate free willed actions specifically to avoid the prophecy from coming true. If anything, Pr0nongo missed the point entirely.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    You can't have a legitimate argument where you deliver one point and then jump to the next with no reasoning. Try again.

    The prophecy governs things that were meant to break its cycle.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    the prophecy is actually saying "the dark voice will be triumphant and you are all totally fucked." If anything, Kerrigan's infestation was to keep the prophecy from coming true. How is that the heroes making only actions that they "were prophesied to do"? If anything the heroes are displaying the ultimate free willed thought and actions by saying "fuck the prophecy, we're going to triumph regardless of what it says." If anything, the heroes are doing the ultimate free willed actions specifically to avoid the prophecy from coming true. If anything, Pr0nongo missed the point entirely.
    Ok, so the process goes in reverse, and ends up having the same effect anyway. When the stipulation is that you must do certain things to stop an event or else the universe will explode, that's the same as having no free will. Raynor and Zeratul were prohibited from killing Kerrigan even if they wanted to. Just how exactly is that "the ultimate free willed thought and actions"?

    It's nothing more than a cop-out for artificially forcing every character to interact with Kerrigan again when they don't want to (given the events of brood war). Same thing with the artifact. An artificial excuse for Kerrigan to keep existing as a character so that blizzard can keep her around instead of taking the logical path and letting players try to get their revenge.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    The thing is that they have the choice of whether or not to do the right thing. In the avengers tv series it's revealed that the bad future one villain kept warning about occurred because Captain America made a bad choice (putting the life of his teammate above the fate of the world). Beacause he saw the bad future, he realized the consequences of his choice and thus was able to force himself to make the more painful decision to abandon his teammate. He could have easily chosen to screw the vision and save his friend, but because he saw the consequences he was able to make the right choice. Same thing with Zeratul; he may still want Kerrigan dead, but he's seen what will happen if he chooses revenge (namely, that everyone is totally boned.) It's a bit of a sticky situation in that they feel pressed to do the right thing, but given how strong revenge can be they could easily say "fuck it I'm taking vengeance." They weren't constricted; they were just shown what the consequences of their choices would be, allowing them to make a more informed decision

    As for Kerrigan; I'll admit that they are somewhat artificial, but I can live with it simply because I believe that the alternatives would be a basic retread of brood war that is kind of stagnant, and that Kerrigan's arc of trying to finally lay the past to rest and achieve redemption, as well as her portrayal as a conflicted anti hero torn between her desire for vengeance and her desire to make amends for her atrocities, is far more intriguing (to me personally) than her being the evil overlord who twirls her moustache (which Kerrigan was always going to turn out to be.) What's more, it also creates genuine conflict. While they might want to kill her, and don't want to trust her, they have no choice if they want to have a chance of stopping the end. Zeratul flat out states "justice demands that she die for her crimes";

  10. #30

    Default Re: Creative Development Q&A 7

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    The thing is that they have the choice of whether or not to do the right thing...They weren't constricted; they were just shown what the consequences of their choices would be, allowing them to make a more informed decision
    Not really. When the "right thing" happens to be "continued existence" (the alternative choice being "assured total annihilation"), it actually stops being a choice for almost anyone who isn't suicidal or psychotic.

    You've then gone on to say this:

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    While they might want to kill her, and don't want to trust her, they have no choice if they want to have a chance of stopping the end.
    ...which just countered your own argument.
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