StarCraft Q&A #2

[Shadow Archon]

No dude. Strength is squared, but mass is cubed. You'd still have as much luck building your planet out of toothpicks. Unless your point is that it's magic?

Magic. Science fictions as soft as Starcraft don't need to have materials that make sense. The very fact that they can rebuild the crust, mantle, and core of worlds is evident of this.

So basically you're not familiar with the argument at all? I suggest you look up some recent threads, I think we just had a discussion on it.

I'm going off of the point about the rebuilding. Our last discussion was the FTL speed, not the rebuild in four years.

The fact is that the UED was in the same position as the Dominion at the end of BW. They could have made SC2 so that the UED returned to their former status and was in power, but the Dominion would be gone & barely mentioned.

No. The UED was completely destroyed. The Dominion was in the state of rebuilding with Mengsk in control of Korhal and the remnants. The UED was handled here and there in the EU and was not at any state of importance in SC2. They don't need to be brought up because they were already dealt with.

We've already established that you have a propensity to hand-waving away inconsistencies and ignoring all criticism in order to better enjoy the story. Again, while that's great for you, I'm not obligated to explain the problem if you could care less anyway.

Hand wave? Exactly how does their industry, technology, and state of the Korpulu Sector at the end of Brood War that can explain the state of repair in SC2 a handwave?

I care, I just see it explained where you don't see it as a valid explanation. I only don't care about the mechanics of the science fiction elements used to explain it, like how their FTL works, how the Terrans can make New Folsom, etc. Any explanation of why they wouldn't work is pointless because in the setting they do, and that's all she wrote.

As for criticism, that's only important depending upon interpretation, and again, I have a different interpretation of events and expectations for the story. Your criticism doesn't matter to me in that line of thought because I think about it completely differently. I respect your opinion, but arguing it is pointless since it is an opinion.

But, when you argue certain elements that don't work (Reaching Zerus, build-up in the interbellum, etc.) and to me they do work, that's what I'm arguing against.

[Gradius]

I'm going off of the point about the rebuilding. Our last discussion was the FTL speed, not the rebuild in four years.

Speaking of which, you'll be happy to know that Earth is .002 light years away:


Another problem solved by the Blizzard loremasters.

But seriously, this is why you can't base anything off of doodad art.

No. The UED was completely destroyed. The Dominion was in the state of rebuilding with Mengsk in control of Korhal and the remnants. The UED was handled here and there in the EU and was not at any state of importance in SC2. They don't need to be brought up because they were already dealt with.

Kerrigan attacked Augustgrad in Brood War to specifically prevent Mengsk from rebuilding:

"KERRIGAN:
Oh, come on, Arcturus. Did you really think I'd allow you to come into power again?"

The UED executed Mengsk's ranking officers and they were in control of the Dominion for a time, so you can assume that the people of these planets no longer bought into Mengsk's stupid propaganda. Mengsk was defeated, both militarily & politically. Shortly after this defeat, he is defeated again at Omega after scrounging up the very last of what he can muster. So the fact that he's in control of Korhal and plans to rebuild is nothing more than one of his megalomaniacal delusions. He is now in debt because he lost at Omega. In the meantime, though the UED lost Korhal, we have no reason to assume they lost their control of all other Dominion worlds. AND we're supposed to believe the KMC and Umojans were just twiddling their thumbs the whole time. I really could write an essay on why Mengsk does not deserve to be in power.

Again, you could have been more justified in writing SC2 so that the UED is the primary antagonist, and the Dominion was instead obscure and utterly meaningless, referenced only in EU material.

Hand wave? Exactly how does their industry, technology, and state of the Korpulu Sector at the end of Brood War that can explain the state of repair in SC2 a handwave?

I care, I just see it explained where you don't see it as a valid explanation. I only don't care about the mechanics of the science fiction elements used to explain it, like how their FTL works, how the Terrans can make New Folsom, etc. Any explanation of why they wouldn't work is pointless because in the setting they do, and that's all she wrote.

As for criticism, that's only important depending upon interpretation, and again, I have a different interpretation of events and expectations for the story. Your criticism doesn't matter to me in that line of thought because I think about it completely differently. I respect your opinion, but arguing it is pointless since it is an opinion.

But, when you argue certain elements that don't work (Reaching Zerus, build-up in the interbellum, etc.) and to me they do work, that's what I'm arguing against.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

When you can dismiss all criticism and even facts from the game with "well, that's just your opinion" there's no point in having a discussion. Burden of proof shouldn't have to be on criticizers because of your ability to miracle up an explanation for any problem imaginable. Anybody can do that, as we see here in these Q&As.

Now, that's a bit unfair to Brian Kindregarn, who I think is a good writer. I enjoyed his work in mass effect, but I just have no idea what's bogging down Blizzard's storytelling team. It seems that to be a writer for Blizzard these days you have to either destroy or ignore as much of the original lore as possible.

[Hawki]

Speaking of which, you'll be happy to know that Earth is .002 light years away:


Another problem solved by the Blizzard loremasters.

But seriously, this is why you can't base anything off of doodad art.

I think that's more tongue-in-cheek than anything.

Or maybe not. Maybe that's why the UED could get to Koprulu so quickly.

The UED executed Mengsk's ranking officers and they were in control of the Dominion for a time, so you can assume that the people of these planets no longer bought into Mengsk's stupid propaganda.

For less than a month though. That's not really enough time to employ a WHAM policy. If anything, all the average citizen on Korhal is going to know is that the UED came in and trashed up the place.

In the meantime, though the UED lost Korhal, we have no reason to assume they lost their control of all other Dominion worlds.

That the UED fleet proper was erradicated and all the Dominion has to worry about now is remnants kind of speaks for itself.

AND we're supposed to believe the KMC and Umojans were just twiddling their thumbs the whole time.

No, we're not. The 'cold war' between the Dominion and counterparts is mentioned/shown numerous times, including when it gets 'hot.' (e.g. the Odin).

Again, you could have been more justified in writing SC2 so that the UED is the primary antagonist, and the Dominion was instead obscure and utterly meaningless, referenced only in EU material.

You could have, but it depends on the story being told. The UED proper isn't relevant to the story of SC2 in that it's primarily dealing with the hybrids/xel'naga. And while I don't think the UED really has to be addressed again, it's admittedly the next logical plot point to deal with (ala SC3 or something).

Now, that's a bit unfair to Brian Kindregarn, who I think is a good writer. I enjoyed his work in mass effect,

Ah, if only he'd stuck around until ME3

but I just have no idea what's bogging down Blizzard's storytelling team. It seems that to be a writer for Blizzard these days you have to either destroy or ignore as much of the original lore as possible.

Is that just a reference to SC2, or the 'big three' in general?

[Quirel]

Some of these questions feel like such a waste...

I got a laugh out of who ever asked about Kerrigan's "high heels" ...of all things. -_-

That's a question I would like to ask the Blizzard artists.
At knifepoint.

Honestly, this is what I think it's like for video game artist in general. Just replace "write" with "draw" and "whores" with "boobs", and it's right on the money.

[Shadow Archon]

Speaking of which, you'll be happy to know that Earth is .002 light years away:


Another problem solved by the Blizzard loremasters.

But seriously, this is why you can't base anything off of doodad art.

Just a joke.

Kerrigan attacked Augustgrad in Brood War to specifically prevent Mengsk from rebuilding:

"KERRIGAN:
Oh, come on, Arcturus. Did you really think I'd allow you to come into power again?"

Wow. Attacking one capital city without killing the emperor is going to overthrow the entire empire for years.

The UED executed Mengsk's ranking officers and they were in control of the Dominion for a time, so you can assume that the people of these planets no longer bought into Mengsk's stupid propaganda. Mengsk was defeated, both militarily & politically. Shortly after this defeat, he is defeated again at Omega after scrounging up the very last of what he can muster. So the fact that he's in control of Korhal and plans to rebuild is nothing more than one of his megalomaniacal delusions. He is now in debt because he lost at Omega.

Yet he still has backers, most of the core worlds are still in his pocket, has relatively friendly ties with the Umojans at the moment, and a good chunk of the military still present.

He wasn't soundly defeated militarily, and no, we can't assume that people were no longer affected by his propaganda seeing its heavy status in Starcraft 2.

As for debt. Nothing suggests he is in debt to anyone.

"With his rag-tag fleet beaten and crippled, Arcturus Mengsk fled back to Korhal to lick his wounds and plan the reconstruction of his Terran Dominion..."

"Infested Kerrigan
Not at all, Arcturus. How'd you manage to scrape up your new fleet? Been raiding the salvage dumps again?
Arcturus Mengsk
I called in a few favors. Made a few concessions. You'd be surprised to see how many special interest groups in this sector want to see you dead.
"

He went back to rebuild the Dominion, and that is what he did. What's the problem?

In the meantime, though the UED lost Korhal, we have no reason to assume they lost their control of all other Dominion worlds.

"Infested Kerrigan
Cerebrate, Duran, the time has come to separate the chaff from the wheat. Now that the UED's power base is broken on this world, only their forces on Char pose any significant threat to me. It's time to move to the second phase of my plan.
"

Only forces on Char and Korhal pose any significant threat. After there defeat on both worlds and the failed counter-attack at Omega, the majority of the UED was destroyed.

Nothing suggests they had any other important bastion left. The Dylar Shipyards were reclaimed by the Dominion. Braxis was purified during Resurrection IV. What world do they have left?

AND we're supposed to believe the KMC and Umojans were just twiddling their thumbs the whole time.

"The Emperor and His Dominion
As the titanic battle between the Protoss and the Zerg reached the boiling point upon the planet Aiur, Arcturus Mengsk took steps to consolidate his own power within the newly formed Terran Dominion. Having crowned himself Emperor of the Dominion, all of the Terran colonies within the Koprulu sector were united under one sovereign rule for the first time.
"

The Protectorate and the Combine were part of the Dominion during the Brood War. Only recently have they been seperate entities. They didn't twiddle their thumbs because they were a part of the institution the UED attacked, not to mention the UED attacked Umoja with a small taskforce to kill Valerian and that the Zerg invaded Moria during the Brood War.

Again, you could have been more justified in writing SC2 so that the UED is the primary antagonist, and the Dominion was instead obscure and utterly meaningless, referenced only in EU material.

No you couldn't. The Dominion had power left. The UED didn't.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

When you can dismiss all criticism and even facts from the game with "well, that's just your opinion" there's no point in having a discussion.

What facts from the games? What did I "dismiss"?

As for criticism, most of it is just from an opinion anyways on why you disliked the story. I'm arguing your criticism of certain elements (FTL, Rebuild time, etc.), but on the whole not arguing your opinion about it I.E. "Lore was butchered." "UED should have been involved."

I don't think the lore was butchered, and I don't think the story needed to contain the UED.

[Turalyon]

*Sigh* Here we go again... Round and round she goes, where she stops, no-one knows.

Just a joke.

Aahh, but can you be sure?

Please keep in mind that I don't trust it either, but what about it marks it as obviously as being a joke? Due to the fluidity of Starcraft's lore, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is revealed to be truth later on. Think about it, if we can't even trust formally written signposts how else are we supposed to be sure about anything else in that universe.

Yeah, it's a joke alright. A bad one which is unfortunately synonymous with the general state of Starcraft's lore.

[Shadow Archon]

Aahh, but can you be sure?

Yes. Because:

Please keep in mind that I don't trust it either, but what about it marks it as obviously as being a joke?

Due to the fluidity of Starcraft's lore, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is revealed to be truth later on. Think about it, if we can't even trust formally written signposts how else are we supposed to be sure about anything else in that universe.

One, its on some dinky little sign and isn't a big point in the story.

Two, the location of the platform is unknown so the exact distance from therefore doesn't even matter.

Three, we have a set distance from Earth and the Korpulu sector. Therefore this platform doesn't take place in the Sector.

Four, it doesn't make sense with the setting otherwise.

Yeah, it's a joke alright. A bad one which is unfortunately synonymous with the general state of Starcraft's lore.

Well, that's your opinion.

[TcheQuevara]

I've said numerous times that I never had a problem with the Dominion rebuilding post-BW because it was fleshed out in EU material in the intebellum period.

What is that, Hawki? I never heard of it. Could you get us a transcription or something? Because I think any piece of lore making sense of the interbellum would make my WoL experience 59% more joyful.

I think the KMs are not a facior in de-estabilizing the Dominion because, why the hell would a colony leave the Dominion the join the KMs? The Combine is maybe even worse than the Dominion. It's like switching between Stálin and Imperialist Great Britain. Kindregan didn't answer why Umoja isn't a threat, thou. I agree with you, the answer was basically "because he can".

He went back to rebuild the Dominion, and that is what he did. What's the problem?

The problem is that the Dominion seems completely unscarred. I agree with you that the Dominion had serious losses, but still was the major Terran force in the Sector, so it was just natural that it kept its hegemonic position.

But think about the Soviet Union in 1949. Absolutely hegemonic in the East, but still trying to rebuild what they lost.

Shouldn't Terran planets be facing something similar in 2504? This has 2 problems:

1) one could say that mentioning the results of BW in WoL was "irrelevant" to the plot, but mentioning it wouldn't be that hard (so it wouldn't hurt the rythym), not to mention it is bad storytelling to lose the track of what you told before; and

2) it is really not clear how Korhal itself got turned into that billion-people metalopolis. Was the metalopolis built after the BW? It would mean it was done in less than 4 years, since the period just after the BW obviously couldn't be very productive. Was it being rebuild before the BW? By who? Did Mengsk did any progress in the MONTH that preceded the BW? Or did the confedarates started Korhal's metalopolis themselves? If Korhal had at least good infrastructure during the BW, why didn't Mengsk cared about nuking his own planet?

Maybe there are an explanation somewhere. But you know, when you drop something completely unexpected at your reader/player's lap, you better explain where did it come from. Or else, you're risking to "overheat" the audience's suspension of disbelief "engines". And after you lose it, everything seems "cheesy", unlikely or forced.

(personally I think that was WoL's biggest failure: it lost the suspension of disbelief of part of the audience because of silly, small mistakes)

About the answers themselves, I liked them overall. Specifically, I loved the answer about Raynor's motivations. WoL's Raynor is definetively the best, deepest Blizzard character so far. And I don't believe Kerrigan or Zeratul will perform that well, because Raynor was based on things Metzen lived personally. Brian Kindregan could be a genius, but in character creation nothing is more powerful than truth.

[Pr0nogo]

Raynor is wishy-washy Mitt Romney in Wings of Liberty. Play the campaign in almost any order and you'll see how convoluted and ass-backwards the campaign can get.

[Shadow Archon]

The problem is that the Dominion seems completely unscarred. I agree with you that the Dominion had serious losses, but still was the major Terran force in the Sector, so it was just natural that it kept its hegemonic position.

Well, I guess that can mainly be attributed to their industry and the fact we seem to be on main Dominion worlds for the most part in Starcraft 2. Thus, whatever the problem was, they have had four years to fix it and these places were either the priority or not even involved in the Brood War conflict. What planet do you think would be best to show the scars of the Brood War? Tarsonis still seemed to be devastated from its attack in Starcraft and that's about it as I can remember.

But think about the Soviet Union in 1949. Absolutely hegemonic in the East, but still trying to rebuild what they lost.

A bit different. The Dominion wasn't smashing its military might into a wall and losing majority of forces and losing infrastructure slowly as the enemy advanced into their territory. There was a swift decapitation strike by the UED on their homeworld, main military space craft staging area, and the swiping of the Overmind, which pretty much gave them dominance over the Dominion without having to "fight" for every piece of territory.

Then we have the small alliance Kerrigan had with the Dominion's remaining loyal forces, Raynor's Raiders, and some Protoss, which later gets back stabbed. We don't know how much lasting damage was done to, say, the industry of the civilian sector and what they had left and what they needed to rebuild and so forth.

1) one could say that mentioning the results of BW in WoL was "irrelevant" to the plot, but mentioning it wouldn't be that hard (so it wouldn't hurt the rythym), not to mention it is bad storytelling to lose the track of what you told before; and

Well, I think they already did that with the re-cap in the Installation.

2) it is really not clear how Korhal itself got turned into that billion-people metalopolis. Was the metalopolis built after the BW? It would mean it was done in less than 4 years, since the period just after the BW obviously couldn't be very productive.

Yes. Terran industry is insane like that. We know that at the end of Brood War it was a desert. Originally it was a jungle planet, then nuked into a Superheated glass ball, then terraformed into the desert planet by the Sons of Korhal, then city planet.

The Terrans have the industrial ability to do this, and thus their bounce back...isn't that hard to believe. Hemisphere covering space platforms built only from that planets' resources. Completely terraforming planets that were purified in a single year. New Folsom.

The Terrans have the tech to bounce back, because you have to truly think of how well there tech works and what it means. Being able to replace the crust, mantle, and core of a planet is crazy, and because of that, bouncing back in four years is easy. Plus, with that population growth answer from the earlier Q&A, we know that they can recover personal losses fast too.

Maybe there are an explanation somewhere. But you know, when you drop something completely unexpected at your reader/player's lap, you better explain where did it come from. Or else, you're risking to "overheat" the audience's suspension of disbelief "engines". And after you lose it, everything seems "cheesy", unlikely or forced.

Here's the problem for me. My suspension of disbelief has been tuned to enjoy Doctor Who and anime, so I can also hunt for an explanation somehow. Except Free Haven, that sucked.