First HotS beta patch!

[DemolitionSquid]

Still, I think part of the reason for the lameness is that Terran already has so much awsome stuff that jamming in extra things and keeping balance is quite tricky. Imagine if they were only adding the Banshee now, or the Planetary Fortress. Everyone would think they are great new additions. But they can't because their roles are already taken.

I fully agree. I can quote multiple posts from years ago where I said Blizzard would better off leaving the Reaper and Banshee for the expansion packs.

Just a couple of things:
1. Battle hellions are seriously different from firebats, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't seriously considered the implications of the unit. Yes, it has similar movement speed, health and attack; it plays a similar role. At first glance, it is for all intents and purposes a firebat, but take a closer look. To start, it costs no gas, is mechanical, and is built from a factory. These are obvious results of them being a transformer for hellions, and you'd be right in dismissing them as trivial details, if they were the only difference. But the clearest difference between the firebat and the battle hellion is that the firebat could never transform into a buggy. Think about that for a moment. You say firebats are nigh useless, and you're completely correct. They're only good against, what, lings and zealots? and so are battle hellions. But buggy hellions are good for scouting, denying creep, and harassing drones, something firebats could never do. Buggy hellions can kite lings, and they do pretty well, but if they're surrounded, they're screwed. Buggy hellions aren't very good against zealots either. But battle hellions are. And here's the deal breaker: they're the same unit. You arent just buying a battle hellion or a buggy hellion; you're buying both. Think about it. No one buys a siege tank for its tank mode, at least not when there are marauders. But there are plenty of situations where an unsieged tank is better than a sieged tank. By adding the battle hellion, you aren't adding a new unit, you're giving an old unit an upgrade.

No one is arguing the Battle Hellion's power or utility. We all agree the unit is performing exceedingly well. We hate the unit from a purely "creative" angle. That is to say, there was a complete and utter lack of creativity in its inception.

Blizzard and I have a long history of disagreement over how to design this game. I believe that StarCraft 2 should be a separate game from Brood War and include as many new units, new abilities, and new ideas as they can. A logical problem > fix approach to creation, encouraging interesting strategies, tactics, micro, and tension. Blizzard is ruled by nostalgia and the "rule of cool," which has led to the creation and retention of units that are a fraction of their possible glory or simply do not work at all, such as the Thor and Carrier. Basically, I don't agree with the current Blizzard developers on how they're balancing their acknowledgement of the games origins, and the need to innovate and improve.

[RamiZ]

Just a couple of things:
2. It's SM, not HSM, Hunter Seeker Missile is a terrible name that's way longer than necessary and blizzard rightfully ditched. People who say seeker missile aren't trying to be short, they're calling the ability by its actual fucking name. People who say hunter seeker missile or HSM have never looked at the tooltip for the spell and at using a name that is so archaic it DIDNT EVEN MAKE IT TO FUCKING BETA.

Sorry, just a couple pet peeves of mine.

Stop whining and assuming wrong things. You are also calling Hellions a "buggy hellions" which is retarded by itself, and what, I should be pissed because word "buggy" is painful to read? Get a fucking grip...
I know that HSM is called Seeker Missile, I just got used to it from alpha days when that ability is first time implemented.

[Jabber Wookie]

I don't understand all of the protoss complaints; however, I only played zerg and terran in WOL. But if the complaints are purely based on the fact that protoss got the least number of new units and abilities worth mentioning, who cares? If it's balanced and protoss can still compete, then I would argue it makes perfect since considering Protoss definitely received the most dramatic changes from SC1 to WoL. If it isn't balanced and Protoss is now at a major disadvantage then I think complaints are valid. But if the complaints are only concerned with protoss being the least changed, then join the zerg and terran club when WoL came out.

Protoss got blink, charge, warp-in, collossus, mothership, sentry, void ray, phoenix, all of which are drastically different from any protoss unit in SC1 (excluding the tweaks to stalkers/aka dragoons and zealots). Terran got a new science vessel, marauder which is by no means imaginitively different from standard infantry, and hellions which are mechanized firebats. Zerg got banelings and that's it from an imaginitive PoV. Roaches are ground attack only hydras, brood lords are tweaked guardians, and queens are just a macro mechanic for the most part.

I don't see any reason to overwhelm the first of two more expansions with new useless units that get nerfed into pointlessness. The warhound already seems a bit pointless, given that if it is useful it will just replace the marauder. Or the marauder and warhound will both become equally boring. Even the swarm hosts as of right now seem wonky. It's a cool concept for sure. But I don't like watching games in which someone is dominating with sacraficial units worth no supply only to either win or finally be killed (swarm hosts included) and then themselves are destroyed because they have no useful units once the essential production facility is destroyed (i.e. swarm host).

[Jabber Wookie]

My loathing for the Warhound and Firebat comes from how completely uninspired, insipid, and desperate they are. I acknowledge their effectiveness in combat, but that doesn't change the sad fact that Blizzard basically gave up on creating anything new and reskinned two other units. I feel a real sense of disappointment that Blizzard had to resort to such cheap gimmicks just to meet their "two new units" quota.

I completely agree with this. The warhound and battle hellion are ridiculously uninspired. Nothing against Transformers, but is that all the terran race is now based on? Seriously, I hate the idea that in some future game, a terran player is going to put battle hellions in walking mode, vikings in walking mode, have thors and warhounds, 4 units that look almost conceptually identical if clumped up enough. It will look so bland and boring its ridiculous.

[Rake]

A terran player is going to put battle hellions in walking mode, vikings in walking mode, have thors and warhounds, 4 units that look almost conceptually identical if clumped up enough. It will look so bland and boring its ridiculous.

Robots in disguise as Terrans.

[mythology]

battle hellions in walking mode, vikings in walking mode, have thors and warhounds, 4 units that look almost conceptually identical if clumped up enough. It will look so bland and boring its ridiculous.

vikings = decepticons
hellions = autobots
thors = anime
warhounds = mech warrior
goliath = robocop

i guess if your not a mech fan the differences and appeal would seem bland and boring.

i like the warhound's look nostalgic of those sega genesis times.

[flak4321]

vikings = decepticons
hellions = autobots
thors = anime
warhounds = mech warrior
goliath = robocop

i guess if your not a mech fan the differences and appeal would seem bland and boring.

i like the warhound's look nostalgic of those sega genesis times.

It reminds me of a unit in (I think) C&C2: Tiberium Dawn that was a similar walker type unit with a very similar model and attack types.

[DemolitionSquid]

It reminds me of a unit in (I think) C&C2: Tiberium Dawn that was a similar walker type unit with a very similar model and attack types.

I believe the unit you are referring to is the Titan.

[Shadow Archon]

I believe the unit you are referring to is the Titan.

I don't care about the inefficiency of using a mech design over a tank. Titans are awesomely cool.

The Thor reminds me of this:



----------------------------------------------------

As for on-topic, how effective are Swarm Hosts and Nydus Worms used together?

[flak4321]

I believe the unit you are referring to is the Titan.

Thanks DS, that would be it!