Boxer and Bisu Interview

[Norfindel]

Ha! No matter if you're a progamer, or a newb, the unexpected is always more fun than copying build orders

[Noise]

Sorry I don't buy that replays ruined innovation. All replays do is allow you to learn faster.

[Skyze]

That's what I like about Boxor and Bisu, they don't copy. It's the reason why boxor is boxor and TL players are just numbers on a score sheet. You can't copy the best to be the best. You have to be original.

I feel that SC2 should have limited replay system for pro games, ie it's only a movie with no interface interaction so you can't figure out what he did.

Its not nice to generalize, that isnt 100% of the population of TL. Its the same as generalizing something bad about the members of this forum, like im sure some TL people would use the assumption that everyone on here doesnt play anything but single player and only cares about what color boots the marine is wearing, instead of gameplay. Wrong, obviously?

Boxor? You mean Boxer right?

There is tons of original players, even on BW right now. Watch players like F91 (chinese zerg) and countless others, Sure, there are alot who copy replays but the ones who do it exactly, will never go anywhere doing it. You need originality and the most important piece of any RTS game; "Game sense".. It isnt as easy as watching 100 boxer replays a day, that is just general smarts of the game, psychologically knowing what your opponent will do or forcing them into doing something psychologically. Something replays can't teach, and what seperates the best players from the newbs who just practice mechanics all day *cough idra cough*

Regardless of what you think, There will be replays with extensive data given, exact build orders and timings. Its all there just incase someone wants to use it, and like I said, knowing exact build orders doesnt nessisarily win the game for you. Sure, at low levels, you will have a better chance, but gamesense wins the game 99% of the times, Thats why even with people like Idra in korea practicing perfect mechanics, cant beat many players not in korea who have much better gamesense than him.

But taking all that shit out of replays, would be the equivilant of TLer's argument to remove automining and MBS.. Its bullshit, and wont be removed, along with your little gripe against replays. Sorry.

[Bisso]

Interesting interview.

As for the Replay, I can understand that players don't want their new strategy to be seen and dissected by the whole world after 3 hours.

But on another hand. Boxer has to realise that StarCraft has become in Korea a sport, just like they dreamed of. But in any sports, EVERY athlete watch and study their next oponent strategy, think football, hockey, soccer. Each teams has a "/$"$" load of videos that they keep showing to their players, this is just normal to have this in StarCraft/SC2.

[n00bonicPlague]

Boxer: After I was discharged, the players held a welcome back party for me. That was the first time I talked to Bisu in a casual setting. I realized he was very young. Since he was born in 1989, that put almost ten years between us. And I knew at first sight, he had the kind looks that female fans would drool over. I had to give him credit for that, right off the bat.

Bisu: You’re too kind. When I first met Boxer, I was overwhelmed by his ‘force’ (note: in this context, Koreans use this to mean aura, presense, etc). I didn’t notice this while I was on another team, but he really had this unexplainable something that influenced everyone around him. He was good with words, and had leadership.

Boxer: I think Bisu’s the one who’s doing the flattering here. As I started to practice in earnest, I noticed that Bisu was extremely focused in his match preparation. People might talk about practicing like you're playing an official match, but Bisu was for real. When we played our internal evaluation matches, Bisu didn't go easy on me even once. To exaggerate a little, I won maybe one game in a hundred.

Bisu: Boxer really worked hard as well, trying to rediscover his touch after leaving the military. From 10 AM until deep into the night, all he would do was practice, with the exception of some exercise. The younger players all voluntarily put in more practice time after Boxer rejoined the team. After Boxer’s return, we went on an upwards path, and it took us to a Proleague championship. He deserves a lot of credit.

Wow, I'm sorry but this is such a gay moment right here.

[FoxSpirit]

Interesting interview.

As for the Replay, I can understand that players don't want their new strategy to be seen and dissected by the whole world after 3 hours.

But on another hand. Boxer has to realise that StarCraft has become in Korea a sport, just like they dreamed of. But in any sports, EVERY athlete watch and study their next oponent strategy, think football, hockey, soccer. Each teams has a "/$"$" load of videos that they keep showing to their players, this is just normal to have this in StarCraft/SC2.

It may sound like beating a dead horse but... what about chess? Or even moreso, Go? People have dissected progames in those two in like forever. We have volumes of records of games 200 years old. We had phases of stagnant play that lasted for decades.
To advance in a strategy game, you need to think a lot. Speedchess games lack a lot of the finesse of a real match, as does Speed-Go.

Ermmm... so I hope with the improved UI of SC2 players have more time to spend on innovating a strategy on the fly and not go through a motion they discovered during practice.

[Rizhall]

Sorry I don't buy that replays ruined innovation. All replays do is allow you to learn faster.

It ALLOWED the POTENTIAL to learn faster.
But most people used it as a means to copy what they saw without understanding why it happened, and what else could have been done.

[Santrega]

Yeah guys, replays are so gay.. I can't believe you can look at what you did and learn from mistakes like that... damn... horribly unfair..

While we are at it, lets remove the ability for NFL teams to watch video on opposing teams as well... because you know, its unfair to those teams who thought up their own strategy...


Edit- Even if replay wasnt there.. eventually people will learn from those new strategies and counter them. There is no way to keep a strategy from being countered eventually. This is just yet another example of pro gamers being unhappy that they have to go up against more competitive players, aka, the ones who will take the time to watch and learn through replays.

[Skyze]

Yah, any NFL Fan knows that last year, the Dolphins had brought in the "Wildcat offense" and used it almost exclusively, and no one know WTF to do to beat it the first year, now every team has parts of it in their offense, but also have spent a shitload of time preparing to play against it.. Meaning now that they know its coming, it has been thought out how to stop it and now they need to invent something new to throw teams off. Its a "copycat league" but any good team just prepares for it and now someone is going to have to come up with something new.

Just like in BW, if you think replays "ruined the game", then fucking make a new strat up yourself and beat Bisu and Jaedong and Fantasy with it. Go ahead, try anything, mass scouts, early queen+ling rushes, anything. Good luck.

[sandwich_bird]

or it and now someone is going to have to come up with something new.

Just like in BW, if you think replays "ruined the game", then fucking make a new strat up yourself and beat Bisu and Jaedong and Fantasy with it. Go ahead, try anything, mass scouts, early queen+ling rushes, anything. Good luck.

At this point I'm pretty sure almost anything worth it has been tried out one way or another.