[Necro] How do you think the final battle of Heart of the Swarm will play out

[DarthYam]

By the storyline, the UED learned of aliens in koprulu in december 499. Between training forces and freezing them they made it from earth to koprulu in near monthes. A warpgate is an unknow factor that follows vastly different rules, but spacetravel should take ages considering how long it originally took.

[Hawki]

Hrm...So you don't mind the idea that the UED may have used a Xel'Naga warp gate to explain their fast travel to the K-sector in the sense that that won't make the "universe feel smaller" but yet still feel the universe is smaller if the UED main their own way there without using a *insert some random lore-justified plot device*?

I think I'm missing the logic here...

I'll try to explain it better.

If the UED has magic warp travel, then it makes the universe feel smaller. And artificially at that, because if the K-sector is point a, and Earth is point z, we're missing points b to y.

If the UED got its hands on a warp gate, it doesn't make the universe feel smaller, because it works within the rules of the setting. Warp gates can only take you to specific places, and that was established prior to the UED's introduction. However, it doesn't solve the issue that both possibilities have, that we have a stingy explanation as to why the UED hasn't done more, having simply "lost interest" in the K-sector, despite not knowing what transpired.

If I were to 'solve' the 'problem' of the UED, I'd go with the warp gate, say Kerrigan found it after she destroyed the fleet, and prevented a return trip, or at least one that can be made at will. Wasn't in BW admittedly, but I can take going back and filling it in if it helps the plot.

Does that explain it better?

By the storyline, the UED learned of aliens in koprulu in december 499. Between training forces and freezing them they made it from earth to koprulu in near monthes. A warpgate is an unknow factor that follows vastly different rules, but spacetravel should take ages considering how long it originally took.

They learnt of them around then, but the intro states that they went after learning of the new Overmind. And even if they learnt that info en route somehow, it's still giving a travel time of months compared to the original 28 years. A few months travel time is still a "looming over you" scenario.

[phazonjunkie]

Personally, I don't really see the UED getting to the K-sector so quick all that problematic in terms of logic/consistency.

Remember that when the Terrans first arrived to the K-sector, FTL travel was still in it's infancy. In the 2 centuries since then, it would seem perfectly reasonable that Earth would've made additional breakthroughs in this field.

To help put in perspective, In the Star Trek expanded universe, originally only warp 4-5 was possible, later, as time (and science) marched on, it increased to over 9.

[Hawki]

Obviously UED tech would be superior to terran tech, but compressing 60,000 light years travel distance to a few weeks? That's even more impressive than the protoss apparently.

Star Trek, as I've mentioned, is a well handled universe in regards to 'growing' the galaxy, in that as the tv shows range from the 22nd to 24th centuries, the travel capabilities grow in turn. And yet the galaxy is still big. The Dominion needed the wormhole to access Deep Space 9, and if not for all the shortcuts they took, it was projected that Voyager had 50 years of travel time to get back to the Alpha Quadrant (could be wrong, knowledge of Star Trek isn't spread evenly throughout the series). In contrast, the UED's come from the proverbial Delta Quadrant without the Beta or Gamma Quadrants even being explored.

[Turalyon]

Does that explain it better?

Yes.

If the UED has magic warp travel, then it makes the universe feel smaller.

Given all the fantastical things that have happened so far in SC1, surely "magic warp travel" can't be the thing that breaks the proverbial camel's back for you now.

If the UED got its hands on a warp gate, it doesn't make the universe feel smaller, because it works within the rules of the setting.

Strange. I'd tend to think that any form of insane travel speed would make the "universe feel smaller" no matter how justified, like the XN warp gate or not, like the UED warp drives.

Hell, who knows. They could just as easily "re-clarify" (retcon) that the UED was formed shortly after Doran Routhe sent the great super carriers into space and then decided to send DuGalle's fleet to chase shortly afterward. If Dugalle was already in pursuit, they could hand-wave it as if he was just a few years behind.

However, it doesn't solve the issue that both possibilities have, that we have a stingy explanation as to why the UED hasn't done more, having simply "lost interest" in the K-sector, despite not knowing what transpired.

If you take into account the possibility (or retcon - not sure if any EU material explains the when and how of the UED) that the UED started chasing the wayward Supercarriers close to when they were first sent out, then in a sense, Earth may not have "lost interest" but are still actually waiting for a reply from Dugalle (which, naturally, will never come) or preparing to send/have sent another fleet.

[Hawki]

Given all the fantastical things that have happened so far in SC1, surely "magic warp travel" can't be the thing that breaks the proverbial camel's back for you now.

Wouldn't say it broke my back, it's just something that gives me issue. Which, I admit, may come off as strange considering that it's warp space travel time that gives me issues and not prophecy, reincarnation or C'thulu in space, but hey, go figure.

Strange. I'd tend to think that any form of insane travel speed would make the "universe feel smaller" no matter how justified, like the XN warp gate or not, like the UED warp drives.

Possibly...but from experience, no. Using Stargate as an example, the galaxy felt big at the start. The stargates could take you anywhere in the galaxy, but the galaxy itself felt big, that while the goa'uld and asgard had hyperspace technology, it was much slower than the stargates. Or at least, that used to be the case. Come the latter seasons of SG-1 and pretty much the entirety of Atlantis, we have ships crossing 1 million light years in a few weeks, which makes you wonder why the stargates were created at all. It's why Atlantis is my least favourite of the three live action series because it never had that feeling of exploration SG-1 used to have, or what Universe had in season 2.

Probably a long example, but that's what I mean. Island hopping is fine. But if you're going to shrink the sea, do it naturally.

Hell, who knows. They could just as easily "re-clarify" (retcon) that the UED was formed shortly after Doran Routhe sent the great super carriers into space and then decided to send DuGalle's fleet to chase shortly afterward. If Dugalle was already in pursuit, they could hand-wave it as if he was just a few years behind.

If you take into account the possibility (or retcon - not sure if any EU material explains the when and how of the UED) that the UED started chasing the wayward Supercarriers close to when they were first sent out, then in a sense, Earth may not have "lost interest" but are still actually waiting for a reply from Dugalle (which, naturally, will never come) or preparing to send/have sent another fleet.

No. Just no.

If the UED engaged in immediate pursuit, why did it take 28 years for the supercarriers to reach Koprulu, but over 200 years for DuGalle, whose wife was apparently still alive? Besides, it specifically states that what spurred them to action was the existance of alien species, specifically what those species showed themselves to be capable of.

I guess if I wanted to sort out the UED problem, it would be a combination of some warp gate-esque thing that Kerrigan destroyed, and some kind of turmoil/leadership change on Earth. I think the UED proper will have to be addressed eventually, but it at least gives the excuse as to why they haven't shown up again, and with a larger fleet than that.

[Turalyon]

If the UED engaged in immediate pursuit, why did it take 28 years for the supercarriers to reach Koprulu, but over 200 years for DuGalle, whose wife was apparently still alive? Besides, it specifically states that what spurred them to action was the existance of alien species, specifically what those species showed themselves to be capable of.

Heh, I didn't really put much thought in that previous comment when I spat it out, did I?

Either way, one can still hand-wave/retcon it if one were inclined to do so. I'm not really that inclined so there's likely more massive holes in the following theories but eh, whatever.

Fine, so maybe the UED didn't immediately start a pursuit straight away but were probably on the way to the K-sector even before SC1 started. The Confederacy, prior to Sc1, seems to know about the Zerg and the Protoss more than they let on. The UED caught wind of that because of their unforeshadowed ability to spy on the Terrans in the K sector from the beginning and then sent their fleet.

The 28 years the supercarriers could be handwaved as the ships being lost in space and travelling haphazardly (the carriers' computers lost navigational data) 60,000 light years but not necessarily in a straight line (maybe including some double-backing) to the K-sector. The reason why the UED were able to get there so quickly was because they could pin-point the wayward Terrans location in the K-sector, which, apparently wasn't that far away afterall...

[Shadow Archon]

Star Trek, as I've mentioned, is a well handled universe in regards to 'growing' the galaxy, in that as the tv shows range from the 22nd to 24th centuries, the travel capabilities grow in turn. And yet the galaxy is still big. The Dominion needed the wormhole to access Deep Space 9, and if not for all the shortcuts they took, it was projected that Voyager had 50 years of travel time to get back to the Alpha Quadrant (could be wrong, knowledge of Star Trek isn't spread evenly throughout the series). In contrast, the UED's come from the proverbial Delta Quadrant without the Beta or Gamma Quadrants even being explored.

Actually, Star Trek isn't that good with their FTL.

Old Series trek had ships that could Warp to the center of the galaxy and to the edge in the matter of days and in TNG had ships that could circumvent the Federation's territory in a few months...which is much superior FTL than Voyager's 70 year trip.

UED's FTL isn't as bad as that in terms of breaking continuity.

[DarthYam]

Oh and they finally answered the kerrigan question

Answer: The Queen of Blades and Sarah Kerrigan are not quite the same person. The Queen of Blades is essentially Sarah Kerrigan under the influence of some devastating forces: incredible power, a dominating level of psi energy, and the presence of Zerg mutagen from the cellular level up.
To be clear, the Queen of Blades is not a separate entity that possessed Kerrigan. Kerrigan is (certainly in her mind) responsible for the terrible things she's done. She has immense guilt for those actions, but she was not completely in her "right mind" in Brood War.

In essence, the Qob was Kerrigan (lust for vengeance and all) who was so drunk on power (and given that most of her life up to that point she'd been a slave in all but name) that it became easier for her to ignore that little voice in her head telling her that what she was doing was wrong.

[Triceron]

I really don't like how Kerrigan and Arthas keep drawing from each other.