Prometheus

[Jconant]

Ok, which leads up to something I wanted to talk about [don't read below unless u want spoilers]



Ok with what happens at the end, wtf was with the discovered dead pilot in Alien? I would remind you then that there were multiple stasis pods housing other engineers; the dead pilot was probably someone who woke up much later at a very bad time and attempted to get the ship flying again.

As for the xenomorph going from what was birthed in the aftermath....we saw how the black ooze, this bio weapon that seems to break down dna and rearrange it into new life had produced several different varieties of creatures, from "super worm of death", micro organisms that zombify its host, giant tentacle "hugger", etc. What likely occured between then and Alien was mass hyper-evolutionary warfare; all these different lifeforms and multiple generations after them clashed with eachother until the xenomorph emerged the sole survivor, layed eggs which would lay dormant until other life disturbed them.

[Carsickness]

So I'm not an Alien lore junky by any means, so maybe you guys could answer a few questions both myself and some friends had.

First, how does the alien that came out of the engineer connect to the first movie? Doesn't it need to be a queen to lay the eggs we see in Alien?

So the black goo turned the worms we saw disturbed by someone's boot into those weird face hugger worms? Why did the scanner orbs not pick up the worms as life when they first entered?

Why would the engineers invite people to a planet where they are developing a biological weapon to kill the very same people?

How does the engineer get from the floor where his chest was burst open and into the chair we see him in Alien? Am I missing something here?

Why did buddy turn into a zombie? And not have aliens busting out of his chest?

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I thought overall the movie was good, but as a prequel, it kinda fell short. There where so many "huh" and "dafuq" moments that a casual audiance (myself included) found it hard to connect the two movies

Ok, which leads up to something I wanted to talk about [don't read below unless u want spoilers]



Ok with what happens at the end, wtf was with the discovered dead pilot in Alien? I would remind you then that there were multiple stasis pods housing other engineers; the dead pilot was probably someone who woke up much later at a very bad time and attempted to get the ship flying again.

As for the xenomorph going from what was birthed in the aftermath....we saw how the black ooze, this bio weapon that seems to break down dna and rearrange it into new life had produced several different varieties of creatures, from "super worm of death", micro organisms that zombify its host, giant tentacle "hugger", etc. What likely occured between then and Alien was mass hyper-evolutionary warfare; all these different lifeforms and multiple generations after them clashed with eachother until the xenomorph emerged the sole survivor, layed eggs which would lay dormant until other life disturbed them.

See this makes some sense. But where was an explanation like this in the movie?

[Turalyon]

I'd disagree with these pessimistic rantings.

If I may correct you: It should've said "apathetic ranting" if you were referring to me.

I'm rather curious to see a sequel showing how the Alien at the end of the movie ends up in the same position as it is at the beginning of the original film.

I'm not sure whether Ridley Scott counts "Aliens" as continuous to his vision of the xenomorphs but if so, could it be assumed that the Alien shown at the end of Prometheus was the first Queen?

[Hawki]

Ok with what happens at the end, wtf was with the discovered dead pilot in Alien? I would remind you then that there were multiple stasis pods housing other engineers; the dead pilot was probably someone who woke up much later at a very bad time and attempted to get the ship flying again.

The mala'kak in Alien was dead for ages-it had even fossilized. It must have been dead long before the events of Prometheus.

First, how does the alien that came out of the engineer connect to the first movie? Doesn't it need to be a queen to lay the eggs we see in Alien?

Xenomorph offspring are male by default, but can change to female if no queen is present. But the thing at the end, even if it is a bona fide xenomorph (which I doubt) couldn't have led to the events of Alien in as much as spawning whatever facehugger did the mala'kak in.

So the black goo turned the worms we saw disturbed by someone's boot into those weird face hugger worms? Why did the scanner orbs not pick up the worms as life when they first entered?

Good point...simple answer? The movie's stupid like that.

Why did buddy turn into a zombie? And not have aliens busting out of his chest?

He was infected by the ooze, not facehugged. As for being a zombie? Um...because the film needed zombies?

Yeah, I'm being pedantic, but it's a classic case of a plot going nowhere that we're left confused as to the how and why the way we are.

I'm not sure whether Ridley Scott counts "Aliens" as continuous to his vision of the xenomorphs but if so, could it be assumed that the Alien shown at the end of Prometheus was the first Queen?

No. Even if that thing was a xenomorph, even if it made its way to LV-426 (or LV-223 becomes said moon), xenomorphs have popped up well before the events of Alien. At the least, the film itself suggests that given the xenomorph seen on one of the murals.

Edit: Nevermind in part, saw a screenshot, LV-426 is shown on a starmap in the film. Two moons orbiting the same planet. My guess would be that the original mala'kak died at the same time the LV-223 base went to hell.

[Jconant]

Hawki....the pilot in the Alien film had what we saw in prometheus to actually be a "suit" ...that surely would remain, but did they examine it more closely to see what was underneath that helmet? no.

As for what bursted from him...it was likely not the xenomorph ancestor we saw in the aftermath, but a late descendant of it. Considering how fast these lifeforms grew and reproduced, its likely such a large progression of evolution can take place, even for a large complex organism.

As for the black ooze, we saw in the very begining of the film that what the progenitors use breaks down DND and reassembles it; in this story mankind are descendants of the engineers, but are also ironically *cousins to the xenomorph, as they are literally descended from the same dna.\
*I'm using cousin loosely, bear with me. The scale in relations and the time it takes for life to grow varied and complex is obsenely large, but in this movie by fantastical science fiction alien technology, a lifeform grows from celluar to a complex organism (like in a woman's womb) in a matter of hours.
This reoccuring theme pertains to what we know of evolution and dramatically portrays how distinct, yet related we are from other forms of life. Like with Alien and making a horror out of things we fear, they did it again in showing the horror... We share a great many similarities with other life yet seemingly are foreign to one another (mammals for example) And lifeforms will be vicious to one another to survive.

Regarding Q's:

Zombies...there are organisms on earth that do just that, infect a host to the point of taking control of its body. Not too far of a stretch to make one variation the ooze produces a symbiotic lifeform.

Lack of scanning lifeforms....well the pups bugged out on reading the dormant engineers...who were in hypersleep- so i dont think we can rely on the accuracy of them anyway. From that we can infer from this though are that the signs of "life" they are looking for to suggest "there is a lifeform in there" is something like containing or producing heat, a pulse, or gas exchange to breath.
If the worms were anything similar to the xenomorph (like corrosive blood), then they don't give off heat, can endure in enviroments impossible to substain life, and don't breath, so our dear pups wouldn't help us detect them anyway.

I can't recall if the movie ever revealed what planet or moon the story took place on, but if it isn't LV 426, then I'd elaborate on what I said before in that, the xeno lifeforms raided a different installation housing another craft while they were being "fruitful and multiply[ing]" across the system. One of the dormant engineers wakes up to find himself in unfriendly company and in his attempt to escape, crashes the ship onto LV 426.

In regards to gender, reproduction and the birth of the first "xeno" lifeform, while in the aliens franchise it has been established that xenomorphs are similar to inscects in regards to hives, queens and behavior, so what hawki said is correct, but its also plausible that this particular creature we witnessed could reproduce assexually. Not quite sure if a gender change and the process of making eggs with huggers in them would start right away or develop in a later generation.

"Why would the engineers invite people to a planet where they are developing a biological weapon to kill the very same people?"
The mural was interpreted as an invitation...so the good doctor read it wrong. It gets to me wondering what it really meant tho. If the author/artist was a progenitor or an "earthly human" ancestor could be telling to this

"See this makes some sense. But where was an explanation like this in the movie?"
well every scene showing the "pilot" room, you could see there were 3 other pods unopened...and David reveals there were multiple installations, multiple ships, so many other pilots just waiting to wake up to get face "hugged". The beginning of the film shows the premise of the black goo bio technology I described- from it killing the progenitor at the very "dna" level only to see a few moments later new dna and then cells emerging from it. Everything else is from what concepts pertaining evolution I understand.

[Hawki]

Hawki....the pilot in the Alien film had what we saw in prometheus to actually be a "suit" ...that surely would remain, but did they examine it more closely to see what was underneath that helmet? no.

What's your point?

As for what bursted from him...it was likely not the xenomorph ancestor we saw in the aftermath, but a late descendant of it. Considering how fast these lifeforms grew and reproduced, its likely such a large progression of evolution can take place, even for a large complex organism.

Xenomorphs need other organisms to reproduce. Queen lays facehuggers, facehuggers implant other organisms, xenomorphs pop out. Somehow I don't see LV-223 having much that could provide for the thing at the end, even if it is a xenomorph.

As for the black ooze, we saw in the very begining of the film that what the progenitors use breaks down DND and reassembles it; in this story mankind are descendants of the engineers, but are also ironically *cousins to the xenomorph, as they are literally descended from the same dna.\
*I'm using cousin loosely, bear with me. The scale in relations and the time it takes for life to grow varied and complex is obsenely large, but in this movie by fantastical science fiction alien technology, a lifeform grows from celluar to a complex organism (like in a woman's womb) in a matter of hours.
This reoccuring theme pertains to what we know of evolution and dramatically portrays how distinct, yet related we are from other forms of life. Like with Alien and making a horror out of things we fear, they did it again in showing the horror... We share a great many similarities with other life yet seemingly are foreign to one another (mammals for example) And lifeforms will be vicious to one another to survive.

I can't recall if the movie ever revealed what planet or moon the story took place on, but if it isn't LV 426, then I'd elaborate on what I said before in that, the xeno lifeforms raided a different installation housing another craft while they were being "fruitful and multiply[ing]" across the system. One of the dormant engineers wakes up to find himself in unfriendly company and in his attempt to escape, crashes the ship onto LV 426.

It isn't mentioned by name but it, and LV-426, are briefly seen on the star map. Your dormant engineer idea isn't too bad though. It would also explain the signal aspect leading to the diversion of the Nostromo.

Of course, the thing is that suit or no suit, why is the mala'kak in Alien so much larger than the ones in Prometheus? I'd throw it out there that the mala'kak changed somewhat in the last 2000 years or something resembling the forms seen in EU works and the first film. Not sure how humanoids go to giant elephants, but hey, it's sci-fi.

[Jconant]

my point is that the "pilot" in Alien wasn't a fossil, its w/e remained of the engineer's suit and possibly mummified body.

As for the xenomorphs needs. You are right, but there are the worms left...no?

[Carsickness]

Lack of scanning lifeforms....well the pups bugged out on reading the dormant engineers...who were in hypersleep- so i dont think we can rely on the accuracy of them anyway. From that we can infer from this though are that the signs of "life" they are looking for to suggest "there is a lifeform in there" is something like containing or producing heat, a pulse, or gas exchange to breath.
If the worms were anything similar to the xenomorph (like corrosive blood), then they don't give off heat, can endure in enviroments impossible to substain life, and don't breath, so our dear pups wouldn't help us detect them anyway.



In regards to gender, reproduction and the birth of the first "xeno" lifeform, while in the aliens franchise it has been established that xenomorphs are similar to inscects in regards to hives, queens and behavior, so what hawki said is correct, but its also plausible that this particular creature we witnessed could reproduce assexually. Not quite sure if a gender change and the process of making eggs with huggers in them would start right away or develop in a later generation.
.

Good point about the orb scanner pups! I'll buy that

As for the possible queen at the end: Xenomorphs start out small (as chest bursters) so one could argue that the alien seen at the end is a small/ infant xenomorph queen?

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I liked the small connections in the movie. Like how the urns "reacted" to the presence of life, kind of like how I imagine the Alien eggs do in future movies.

And how the Alien blood is a variation of the goo? Seeing as the goo melted buddy's helmet/face (cool effect btw)

[broodmywarcraft]

This kind of sums up all the questions the movie raised, and alot of my problems with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0

[Jconant]

I saw that you tube clip and could not but help but wonder "if he was that perceptive of the movie, does he really not know the answers to the questions he was asking?"

David though I grant will probably irk a lot of people who watch the movie for exactly like that question regarding halloway. Many are going to walk away from the theater unable to comprehend why he does the things he does.