TeamLiquid Macromanagement Article

[Nicol Bolas]

Something tells me that they wanted to reduce macro as much as possible in order to bring the game "up to date" with other RTS games

No, they wanted to fix the interface to remove busywork as much as possible in order to make the game something that people would be more likely to actually play. A 1998 interface will not fly in 2009.

That this happened to disrupt macro and rhythm and so forth is a side-effect, not the primary effect.

[Crota]

That's actually a really good suggestion, one I'm curious they've experimented with already. These two mechanics are now an investment which pays off in the long term instead of a choice of whether or not to deplete your energy.

Isn't this already built into the fact you have to build the Obelisk or the Orbital Command and that already costs minerals?

[Kimera757]

Isn't this already built into the fact you have to build the Obelisk or the Orbital Command and that already costs minerals?

Those are one-time costs already. (The orbital command seems like a significant investment, especially since you can't have a planetary fortress, but in the long run it's nearly always worth it.)

[Hav0x]

I really hate TL. They played 10 games and try to act like they know more about the game than Blizzard who has probably played thousands of games collectively by now.

[Norfindel]

I really hate TL. They played 10 games and try to act like they know more about the game than Blizzard who has probably played thousands of games collectively by now.

Seriously, i don't think that Blizzard has put a lot of efforts into the macro mechanics, nor tested them extensively. The mechanics cannot stand even a theorycrafted analysis, not to speak about hands-on testing. I think that TL cannot be blamed at all in this case.

[Nicol Bolas]

Seriously, i don't think that Blizzard has put a lot of efforts into the macro mechanics, nor tested them extensively.

Really? So they've been in for over 9 months, and they haven't tested them extensively? Then why was Karune able to point out ways to counter 1-Hatch Queen pretty much immediately after TL started talking about it? Because obviously they've had their 1-Hatch Queen phase in their metagame, and they found ways to deal with it.

[MaybeNextTime]

Really? So they've been in for over 9 months, and they haven't tested them extensively? Then why was Karune able to point out ways to counter 1-Hatch Queen pretty much immediately after TL started talking about it? Because obviously they've had their 1-Hatch Queen phase in their metagame, and they found ways to deal with it.

He never addressed the issues...

[Nicol Bolas]

He never addressed the issues...

He addressed the issue that TL brought up. That is, being unable to deal with it.

[MaybeNextTime]

He addressed the issue that TL brought up. That is, being unable to deal with it.

No, he never did... Seems like you have reading comprehension problems, no offence, Karune does too.

The issue is:

1. Queen's Spawn Larva makes Zerg earlygame way too flexible in terms of going for either an economic variant, a military one or a mix of both.

2. Due to greatly improved pathing AI and creep speed bonus (and also Queen having a ranged attack) the six early Zerglings make it impossible to scout the Zerg base.


ERGO

Zerg has great scouting potential (Ovies, Lings, even Drones) while the other two races are playing blind (unless Terran sacrifices a MULE for a scan, but then he needs some GODLIKE timing to see what Zerg went for, and it might still be too late and he's behind economically anyway...)

The vZ player has to GUESS what the Zerg player is up to:

"Is he all-in hydra? A
Is he teching?
Is he expanding? B
Is he doing something else entirely?"

If it's A and you power - you're dead.
If it's A and you invest in defences - you're probably even.

If it's B and you invest in defences - you're dead.
if it's B and you power - you're probably even.

On top of that, the Zerg macro mechanic is simply much more efficient earlygame, which allows the Zerg to outexpand and outresource you by a great deal. Read Chill's analysis for that.


What KARUNE said was:

#1. You can defend 1-Hatch early aggression as long as you assume it's coming.

This exatly what TL staff have been saying all along. The problem is, you need to GUESS correctly, aaaaaand you're giving up the map control to the Zerg, which leads to his outexpoing and then outmassing you.

Karune also assumes the Zerg will always try to suicide his units into your wall... In reality, the Zerg will do the above.

#2. Scouting is much easier now in StarCraft II for various reasons. All of these methods of scouting will be available by mid-game and be useful from then on.

The point is, you need to GUESS what Zerg's up to EARLYGAME.

According to pretty much any decent/good BW player who had the chance to play SC2, SCV/Probe scouting the Zerg is rendered pretty much impossible (i.e. THAT much harder compared to BW) as soon as the initial six Lings pop (thanks to improved pathing and creep speed bonus).


I'll rather trust skilled BW players than Karune on that one because he has no base for comparison. (According to BNet forumers who played him, he's a D- BW player and a 45% win WC3 one...)

I also doubt his RTS/strategy understanding. In his initial post he completely missed Hot_Bid's (and others') points. ;/


Ultimately, until we see a TL staff member use it against Karune in a BlizzCon 09 build, we can't tell who's right. Although, several people at PAX have beaten Blizzard staff members while playing for the very first time, using that very strategy.

[FrozenArbiter]

To be fair, I cannot blame Karune for thinking the major issue talked about was stopping the hydra rush, as Hot_Bid spent a lot of time talking about the difficulty of defending vs that, in addition to the points about scouting.

I really hate TL. They played 10 games and try to act like they know more about the game than Blizzard who has probably played thousands of games collectively by now.

Wow. Did you just ignore all the parts of his post where he was basically screaming: "DISCLAIMER: WE MIGHT BE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THIS".

Oh and way more than 10 games but meh. Who cares. Why does it upset you so much that he talks about how he perceives the balance after playing the game? You hate TL because of this? It seems stupid to me.