TeamLiquid Macromanagement Article

[Draco]

And yet it would appear that they failed. Supply Drop ought to be competitive with Mules, since they both give you resources for energy, but apparently the current numbers don't make that work. And that's about the best it gets for competition.

And while Blizzard clearly wants these mechanics to have depth, they still haven't changed/replaced Proton Charge, even after acknowledging that it is the least deep of their mechanics.

If they ship the beta with these mechanics, expect the final game to either include them with minor tweaks or to not include them at all. They're not going to introduce entirely new economic mechanics in the middle of beta. Not unless they extend the beta from 6 months to 9 months.

I agree that once beta hits, the inertia will be too strong for any real underlying changes to get done. So, we still have 2 months before the Nov/Dec block rolls out!

[Nicol Bolas]

Why don't we get rid of them and bring back Manual Mining and get rid of single building select.

Because, despite how silly these mechanics are, they're still better than manual mining and single-building production. They're still an APM sink, but they're less of an APM sink.

Or we can make them good macro mechanics.

Here's what I don't get; what is it about any of these mechanics (save Spawn Larva) that makes it worth salvaging? None of them are intrinsically cool.

It makes more sense to me to just dump them and try again from scratch. Making these into good mechanics isn't worth the trouble.

[n00bonicPlague]

I feel the devs have been too quick to throw around mechanics. I'm not sure that they really want these mechanics in anyways. Something tells me that they wanted to reduce macro as much as possible in order to bring the game "up to date" with other RTS games; thus, when the professional community complained, they just tried throwing in a bunch of random stuff to make the pros shut up.

Then again it could be that the task before them is unlike any other that an RTS developer has faced. Your average RTS game is immensely micro-focused, with macro being little more than having to make a handful of clicks in order to get resources. I don't think anyone has ever really tried putting more base management into a game than what already exists with the concepts of gathering, building, upgrading, researching, and training.

[Noise]

It makes more sense to me to just dump them and try again from scratch. Making these into good mechanics isn't worth the trouble.

Yes please.

[Operatoring]

Or we can make them good macro mechanics.


Blazur brought up an excellent point today on the BNET forums. If casting AoE abilities works like SC1 then Proton Charge should be able to be cast via the mini-map.

Since Proton Charge and Mule are EXACT replicas of Manual Mining, why don't we just automate them like we automated Mining.

[Norfindel]

All macro in SC can be used to different levels, but *must* be used to some level. If you don't have any worker, you cannot play. If you don't build, you cannot play, and so on. But clearly, the macro mechanics are designed in a way as to be *optional*. Blizzard itself said that casual players could choose to use them or not, and that they're aimed to make the game more interesting to progamers (something i think they currently fail at).

So, if they are optional, obviously the game must remain fully balanced without their use.

[flabortast]

MULE would be interesting if it could do more than just mine. Assisting SCVs in construction and the ability to repair could make it more interesting.

[Santrega]

The difference between these macro mechanics and manual mining from SC has been explained many times, but since people are still complaining saying there is no difference, I'll point them out once again.

In manual mining in SC if you stop sending workers to minerals your economy completely halts. Especially when you start getting into the mid-late game and mineral fields start to disappear. If you aren't building up the worker force at your expansion your minerals will hit 0 a lot more than you want them to, and it will make things really difficult for you.

The macro mechanics in Sc2 provide a BONUS, and you no longer have to send each worker to a mineral field when its built, as its automated now. All you have to do is remember to build them, which really isnt that hard to do.

The choice you'd like to see in the macro mechanics is simple, rather than simply providing a bonus without any risk, you'd like to see a choice. You should be able to choose to increase your resource harvesting, or, increase your production of military units. This choice is available for Zerg only.

I think that the resource boost for protoss and terran should have a mineral cost, not an energy cost. This gives you a choice between making a few more units to attack/defend with, or gaining a harvesting advantage for a period of time. This mineral cost will give you about a minute time span where you are at a slight disadvantage while you wait for the benefit to come through. The mineral cost shouldnt be so much that its not worth it, but certainly should be enough to make you consider other things.

Like for example, maybe it would be more beneficial to spend that extra time required to keep boosting mining by finding and securing a High-Yield mineral line.

[GnaReffotsirk]

What happens if, say, we make the PC mechanic do what it does but goes like this:

1. (after cast) does the boost thing
2. (ability wears off) you will be taxed at a rate equal to the gain in #1

case a: If the ability can be cast after every wear-off, then the tax will get bigger and bigger, until a cap is reached and you'll be taxed for a long time.

case b: if the cooldown time per cast allows enough time to pay back the tax, player can create more probes to offset the tax, or prepare more gateways to avoid the tax cooldown by spending all minerals before the taxation begins to take toll.

[Blazur]

I think that the resource boost for protoss and terran should have a mineral cost, not an energy cost. This gives you a choice between making a few more units to attack/defend with, or gaining a harvesting advantage for a period of time. This mineral cost will give you about a minute time span where you are at a slight disadvantage while you wait for the benefit to come through. The mineral cost shouldnt be so much that its not worth it, but certainly should be enough to make you consider other things.

That's actually a really good suggestion, one I'm curious they've experimented with already. These two mechanics are now an investment which pays off in the long term instead of a choice of whether or not to deplete your energy.